Trout's clutchnes or lack thereof?

[Dtwncbad]

5 minutes ago, True Grich said:

You obviously didn't read the link to my whole post...

If I got the wrong impression sorry.  Just reacted to the words I saw.

[T.G.]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

If I got the wrong impression sorry.  Just reacted to the words I saw.

NO worries.  I can see how you would get that impression if you didn't read my whole blog post.  I know he can't do it alone... for sure.

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, True Grich said:

NO worries.  I can see how you would get that impression if you didn't read my whole blog post.  I know he can't do it alone... for sure.

Ok I read the link.

Can you acknowledge another angle?

Hypothetical to make a point:

If Trout has a double, a homer, and a stolen base in a game the Angels lose 6-5 you are not satisfied with the heroic moment you desire.

How about if the pitching staff didn't give up 6 runs and the Angels win that game 5-3 on Trout's back?

I guess you can hope for one more 2-run homer from Trout to win 7-6?

My point is Trouts "normal" number should feel even better if his "normal" numbers led to more wins.  It's not Trout.

It has been the rest of the roster.

[T.G.]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Ok I read the link.

Can you acknowledge another angle?

Hypothetical to make a point:

If Trout has a double, a homer, and a stolen base in a game the Angels lose 6-5 you are not satisfied with the heroic moment you desire.

How about if the pitching staff didn't give up 6 runs and the Angels win that game 5-3 on Trout's back?

I guess you can hope for one more 2-run homer from Trout to win 7-6?

My point is Trouts "normal" number should feel even better if his "normal" numbers led to more wins.  It's not Trout.

It has been the rest of the roster.

You make excellent points... and I know my expectations (as well as those of most fans) can be unrealistic.  I get that.  I know it's not fair. 

When I think back at what Ortiz did in "clutch" situations - I always felt like he was going to deliver.  I don't get that feeling with Trout.  It's not based on any statistical evidence at all.  It's just that feeling.  Believe it or not - I always felt like Garrett Anderson was going to somehow deliver in those situations.  I just don't get from Trout.  Again - I know it's not fair and the stats that Jeff Fletcher shared with us are very much eye opening to me. 

Your comments and points aren't lost on me.

 

[Dtwncbad]

Derek Jeter is worshipped for being clutch and big memories in the postseason.

Alex Rodriguez is considered a choker in the postseason.

Consider this:

Jeters lifetime OPS in the postseason is .838.

ARods lifetime OPS in the postseason is .822.

I guarantee that is closer that 99% of fans would have imagined.  It is close enough to call a tie.

But get this--

Jeter built his .838 on 66 games of .961 in the ALDS games.  He logged just .751 in ALCS and .832 in WS.

ARod?  His ALCS was .981 and WS .973.

Yes different sample sizes but the point is there.

Jeter has better teams around him so his 1-4 performance in a one run win in an ALCS game gifts him a heroic memory while ARod could go 2-4 and lose 5-3 and he is a bum.

I personally can't stand either one of these players but they well illustrate my points.

The team around you makes all the difference.  Jeter had the luxury of excellent starting pitching and ARod did not.

Expecting ARod to do better than he did in ALCS and WS to deliver the heroic moments, to me, is wrong.  His lack of moments have labeled him a postseason flop instead of blaming the team around him and the pitching.

If Trout never delivers heroic moments to win WS I doubt it will really be any fault of his own.

 

 

 

 

[Ohtaniland]

10 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Derek Jeter is worshipped for being clutch and big memories in the postseason.

Alex Rodriguez is considered a choker in the postseason.

Consider this:

Jeters lifetime OPS in the postseason is .838.

ARods lifetime OPS in the postseason is .822.

I guarantee that is closer that 99% of fans would have imagined.  It is close enough to call a tie.

But get this--

Jeter built his .838 on 66 games of .961 in the ALDS games.  He logged just .751 in ALCS and .832 in WS.

ARod?  His ALCS was .981 and WS .973.

Yes different sample sizes but the point is there.

Jeter has better teams around him so his 1-4 performance in a one run win in an ALCS game gifts him a heroic memory while ARod could go 2-4 and lose 5-3 and he is a bum.

I personally can't stand either one of these players but they well illustrate my points.

The team around you makes all the difference.  Jeter had the luxury of excellent starting pitching and ARod did not.

Expecting ARod to do better than he did in ALCS and WS to deliver the heroic moments, to me, is wrong.  His lack of moments have labeled him a postseason flop instead of blaming the team around him and the pitching.

If Trout never delivers heroic moments to win WS I doubt it will really be any fault of his own.

 

 

 

 

Postseason clutch is a completely different subject. We don’t have much to go on. Postseason stats are what creates legions. It’s a different stage, a different audience and they certainly are more meaningful. Nobody really remembers if Player X hits 10 home runs in the month of May but if he hits clutch home runs in October they remember him. 

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, OHTANILAND said:

Postseason clutch is a completely different subject. We don’t have much to go on. Postseason stats are what creates legions. It’s a different stage, a different audience and they certainly are more meaningful. Nobody really remembers if Player X hits 10 home runs in the month of May but if he hits clutch home runs in October they remember him. 

My point is a player that hits a postseason HR in a game they win 3-2 gets hero status and the player that hits a HR in a game they lose 6-5 is no hero, and probably gets blames for not hitting a 3 run homer instead of a 2 run homer.

And that is lame when the difference is how many runs the pitching staff gave up.

 

[Dick B Back]

All I know is that Reggie Jackson was clutch as far as my memory allows.

[stormngt]

31 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

Postseason clutch is a completely different subject. We don’t have much to go on. Postseason stats are what creates legions. It’s a different stage, a different audience and they certainly are more meaningful. Nobody really remembers if Player X hits 10 home runs in the month of May but if he hits clutch home runs in October they remember him. 

Legions? Did you mean legends?

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

Legions? Did you mean legends?

yes thank you

 

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Legions? Did you mean legends?

With Derek Jeter, we are talking about lesions.

[JustATroutFan]

Ted Williams had a career postseason slash line of .200/.333/.200 in 30 plate appearances. So using logic, Williams isn't a legend. So all those great numbers that he put up in the regular season doesn't matter.

Not trying to be mean but a lot of people are dumb when they use that logic.

[Pablo]

3 hours ago, True Grich said:

You make excellent points... and I know my expectations (as well as those of most fans) can be unrealistic.  I get that.  I know it's not fair. 

When I think back at what Ortiz did in "clutch" situations - I always felt like he was going to deliver.  I don't get that feeling with Trout.  It's not based on any statistical evidence at all.  It's just that feeling.  Believe it or not - I always felt like Garrett Anderson was going to somehow deliver in those situations.  I just don't get from Trout.  Again - I know it's not fair and the stats that Jeff Fletcher shared with us are very much eye opening to me. 

Your comments and points aren't lost on me.

 

Honestly, I think this has to do with familiarity. We are, in fact, spoiled by Trout. I am sure if you talk to a chowd who watches every game the sox play, he would have similar critiques about Ortiz.

[stormngt]

6 hours ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

I knew what I was talking about just by watching the two players.  Never saw those numbers before in my life.  I decided to use facts to prove my point instead of my opinion that you would probably dismiss out of hand.  Can we stop in-fighting please?  We're fans of the same team.  I'm not going to attack anybody unless they do so first.

Fair enough, I commonly use the term "not a slave to quantitative analysis", when I feel people rely too much on stats.  

[WeaverFever]

On 5/14/2018 at 3:24 PM, True Grich said:

You obviously didn't read the link to my whole post...

I feel like if you criticize Mike Trout on here, you get crusified. 

I hate how in today’s society expecting or wanting something more from somebody is the worst thing you can say to a person, but to me it’s a compliment. 

With two outs, bases juiced in the 9th I want Mike Trout to come through, I expect him to come through.... I can see you do too. 

David Ortiz, Tiger Woods. Those two guys define the term “clutch.” When you need something to get done, those are the guys you want. Those guys made memories. Mike hasn’t shown that in his career... YET. 

 

[WeaverFever]

On 5/13/2018 at 6:47 PM, Lou said:

I don't care about clutchiness, however, I'm interested to hear how you were " almost run off the board" 

I made the comment that I have more faith in Albert in the 9th then I do Mike. I’m not a baseball expert OBVIOUSLY especially with that comment. It’s unpopular but Albert has got it done in the past, Mike hasn’t got it done at home in walkoff fashion since 2015. 

Ill own that comment I made, it’s unpopular, but it’s my opinion. Maybe for the vast majority you are glad I’m not Mike Scioscia. 

[Docwaukee]

bummer.  more of the same.  

[Angelsjunky]

Dude really sucks right now.

[Dick B Back]

Its funny Trout’s slumping so bad right now. He usually waits till September.

[JustATroutFan]

1 minute ago, Dick B Back said:

Its funny Trout’s slumping so bad right now. He usually waits till September.

Or maybe he's saving his best performance for September. 

[Stradling]

7 hours ago, JustATroutFan said:

Or maybe he's saving his best performance for September. 

I have it on good authority that May will be his best month.  By good authority I mean hundreds of posts telling us that for several months.  

[JustATroutFan]

9 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

I have it on good authority that May will be his best month.  By good authority I mean hundreds of posts telling us that for several months.  

Despite this fluke slump, Trout's slash line in May is .313/.500/.583. Still amazing to realize that. We're not even done with the month yet and have 14 games left, so lets just wait and see.

[eligrba]

It makes more sense to me to expect more from other players than Trout. Upton, Simmons and OhtanI are getting it done, everyone is the problem.  

[Torridd]

On 5/14/2018 at 5:21 PM, Dtwncbad said:

And further is it more clutch to hit a two out bases empty double or hit a two out double to knock in the guy that just doubled?

My book says it's the same.  I'm pretty sure the "clutch" book says the rbi double is better.

But the guy that hit with the bases empty really cannot be penalized for nobody being on base when he came up.  I mean that is just stupid.

I understand what you're saying, but the difference is the pressure. It's not the same thing. Getting a two-out base hit in game seven of the World Series in the ninth when you're down 1-0 is a bit clutch, certainly more than in a regular season game, but the guy who drives him in has more pressure on him and is "more clutch."

[Dick B Back]

At least I’ve been able to figure out one of the reasons the Angels have done so much better on the road so far this year. Trout’s AVG:

Road .360

Home .237

this only seems to be a problem since he got married. Is he missing Richards that much?