C.J. Cron to the Tampa Bay Rays

[JustATroutFan]

19 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

If Valbuena can put up his 2016 slash line he'll be better than that.

He overachieved that year. Numbers were a product of that little league ballpark in Houston. OPS was over .900 at home and barely over .700 on the road.

 

[eaterfan]

8 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

He overachieved that year. Numbers were a product of that little league ballpark in Houston. OPS was over .900 at home and barely over .700 on the road.

Still good for a park factored in 125 OPS+. Pujols put up a 113 OPS+ season that year.

[JustATroutFan]

1 minute ago, eaterfan said:

Still good for a park factored in 125 OPS+. Pujols put up a 113 OPS+ season that year.

Because he hit that well at the Minute Maid bandbox.

[eaterfan]

1 minute ago, JustATroutFan said:

Because he hit that well at the Minute Maid bandbox.

Not sure you know what park factor is or how it's already used in OPS+. But, OPS+ already accounts for it. It's a ballpark neutral stat.

That being said, the point of this whole debate is that the Angels don't have any really good options at 1B. They are stuck with Pujols and they probably couldn't win carrying 3 guys who were 1B. They can't upgrade because that means adding a 4th guy and they are already spending too much on the position. They had 4 guys divvying up the 1B/DH duties and that was too many. Someone had to go. It was going to be Cron or Valbuena. Neither guy is good, but both will probably be a little better than league average hitters. 

[eligrba]

Cron is not the type player that helps the Angels this season.  I am intrigued at who Eppler will pick as the ptbnl,  This is a good move.

[JustATroutFan]

2 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

Not sure you know what park factor is or how it's already used in OPS+. But, OPS+ already accounts for it. It's a ballpark neutral stat.

That being said, the point of this whole debate is that the Angels don't have any really good options at 1B. They are stuck with Pujols and they probably couldn't win carrying 3 guys who were 1B. They can't upgrade because that means adding a 4th guy and they are already spending too much on the position. They had 4 guys divvying up the 1B/DH duties and that was too many. Someone had to go. It was going to be Cron or Valbuena. Neither guy is good, but both will probably be a little better than league average hitters. 

Park Factor of 100 is neutral. Over 100 favors hitters and under 100 favors hitters. And yes, I've seen a few people say that Minute Maid is a neutral/pitchers park and not the bandbox that most of us think it is. I don't care what the numbers say. A lot of the Astros starters like Keuchel and McCullers pitch well at home but that doesn't make the bandbox Minute Maid a "pitchers park".

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

41 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

If Valbuena can put up his 2016 slash line he'll be better than that.

2016 was Luis' best season ever by a lot. And was in Houston, I doubt he can repeat it in Anaheim.

[Stradling]

Can he repeat his second half from last season?

[nate]

Cron was a huge liability, I am fine getting rid of him, the larger issue is still Pujols though.

Hopefully Ohtani can hit MLB pitching.

[JustATroutFan]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Can he repeat his second half from last season?

If you mean an OPS of over .850, then I don't see him doing that again, especially playing at Angels Stadium. He still has the potential to have a good year with the bat but I don't see him having an OPS over .850 again. He's very inconsistent.

[Stradling]

So the last time he was on the field he posted those numbers but now we don’t think he can do it again?  If he posts a .780 or higher OPS we will be fine. 

I don’t think we’re done. Then again I don’t think we will settle at a 3 man bench either. If we do go with a 3 man bench then Valbuena is probably gone and they will trade for two Josh Harrison clones. 

[JustATroutFan]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

So the last time he was on the field he posted those numbers but now we don’t think he can do it again?  If he posts a .780 or higher OPS we will be fine. 

I don’t think we’re done. Then again I don’t think we will settle at a 3 man bench either. If we do go with a 3 man bench then Valbuena is probably gone and they will trade for two Josh Harrison clones. 

Over an entire season of like 110 games, since he won't play against left handed pitching, I don't see it. Even with a good second half last year, his OPS was still like average.

[floplag]

OK, so PTBNL speculation, considering they waived Dickerson, one thinks it should be someone better?  Otherwise why would we not simply take him?
This is really odd. 

[zenmaster]

Probably be a 26 year old AA guy none of us have ever heard of.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

OK, so PTBNL speculation, considering they waived Dickerson, one thinks it should be someone better?  Otherwise why would we not simply take him?
This is really odd. 

They didn’t really waive Dickerson, I don’t know all of the terms they use, but whatever they did with Dickerson gives them 10 days to trade him.  They will get someone better than Cron for him.  They were probably close to a deal to move him, but needed the roster spot to get Cron.  

[floplag]

13 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They didn’t really waive Dickerson, I don’t know all of the terms they use, but whatever they did with Dickerson gives them 10 days to trade him.  They will get someone better than Cron for him.  They were probably close to a deal to move him, but needed the roster spot to get Cron.  

understood, though in waiving him they also killed a great deal of their negotiating power.   Unless they already had offers on the table they hurt their own position. 

[Blarg]

11 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

He doesn't have to DH when it's a LHP. Anyone can DH plus Cowart could play 1B against LHP, there isn't that many. Plus Cowart is a better defender than Marte. Marte hit .185.280.354.634 against LHP last season. He had a career half season in 2016, but nothing before or after that. Plus I hate the "Marte Parte" saying with a passion. I would rather have Cowart play 5th infielder at least we won't give away anything on defense.

At AAA Cowart hit .352/.442/.489/.931 against LHP.

What are Cowarts stats in the majors, just so it is closer to an apples to apples comparison.

[totdprods]

11 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

He doesn't have to DH when it's a LHP. Anyone can DH plus Cowart could play 1B against LHP, there isn't that many. Plus Cowart is a better defender than Marte. Marte hit .185.280.354.634 against LHP last season. He had a career half season in 2016, but nothing before or after that. Plus I hate the "Marte Parte" saying with a passion. I would rather have Cowart play 5th infielder at least we won't give away anything on defense.

At AAA Cowart hit .352/.442/.489/.931 against LHP.

At MLB, Cowart hit .167/.211/.167/.377 against LHP.
At AAA, Marte hit .276/.333/.724/1.057 against LHP.

This team could still have Marte in place of Cron and Cowart on the bench to start the year too. I don't know if Marte is as good as his '16 suggested, but I don't think he's as bad as last year suggested either. 

If he's a .240/.300/.450 type corner infielder who can spot 1B, 3B, and LF, he's an acceptable short-term replacement for Cron and hiscareer .262/.307/.449/.756. That's not out of reach for Marte, and for a couple million less.

I still expect them to bring in another vet though.

[Docwaukee]

the Dickerson waivers scream that there is more to this story.  Seems really odd to waive a guy that put up almost 3 war and hit in the middle of your lineup.  He's slated to make about 6 mil.  

Twins also got Odorizzi for almost nothing.  Billy could have had him if he wanted but clearly he didn't.  Makes me wonder if the report that we were discussing him with Tampa was really that we were in talks with tampa about something but it was really Cron.   

The other name I haven't seen brought up is Jose Miguel Fernandez.  Maybe he plays into this because of his ability to play 2b/3b/OF/1b.  Anyone?  

 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

What are Cowart's stats in the majors, just so it is closer to an apples to apples comparison.

small sample size against LHP, only 18 AB which is why not included.

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

the Dickerson waivers scream that there is more to this story.  Seems really odd to waive a guy that put up almost 3 war and hit in the middle of your lineup.  He's slated to make about 6 mil.  

Twins also got Odorizzi for almost nothing.  Billy could have had him if he wanted but clearly he didn't.  Makes me wonder if the report that we were discussing him with Tampa was really that we were in talks with tampa about something but it was really Cron.   

The other name I haven't seen brought up is Jose Miguel Fernandez.  Maybe he plays into this because of his ability to play 2b/3b/OF/1b.  Anyone?  

I wonder if they've had a few offers for him but nothing really exceptional, and DFA'ing him was a way to get those teams to pony up and make their best offer now knowing that he'll be dealt one way or another now and who knows what better offers could be coming in. 

The Odorizzi deal bums me out - a straight up involving Hermosillo or Ward or Fletcher may have gotten it done and for a MLB-tested SP with two years of control and some potential, that seems totally worth the risk. 

The path is certainly clearer for Fernandez, Walsh, Marte, and Cowart to make the team. My only hesitation is it is a bit abrupt to look at someone who isn't on/doesn't have to be on the 40-man roster and pencil him into the opening day 25 before a single spring game is played. It feels like you're removing a layer of depth unnecessarily.

[arch stanton]

Seems Tampa panicked at the thought of having Dickerson and Odorizzi on the roster to start the season which would guarantee their arb salaries so they took what they could get. When you look at their contracts page you wonder if they've asked anyone interested in Archer to take Span with him and still give prospects

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

small sample size against LHP, only 18 AB which is why not included.

Marte's 65 MLB AB vs. LHP isn't much more of a sample size, and a .176 BAbip suggests he was unlucky.

[Docwaukee]

Also, would be sweet to grab Brandon Lowe from the Rays for CJ, but that's probably too much.  

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

9 minutes ago, totdprods said:

At MLB, Cowart hit .167/.211/.167/.377 against LHP.

Again only 18 AB, that's like 4 or 5 games worth. That's not a fair comparison considering he has always had better BA from the right side although with less power.