C.J. Cron to the Tampa Bay Rays

[Warfarin]

3 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

If Marte were to make the team, he won't be platooning with Valbuena. Valbuena will be platooning with Pujols at 1b.  Marte would only be a backup to Cozart at 3rd base. 

Well, by platooning, I mean moreso that on days when Pujols is the DH and Valbuena is the 1B, and a LHP enters the game, Marte probably comes in to pinch hit for Valbuena and takes over 1B (since Pujols is already DH'ing).

[Dtwncbad]

All these conversations about Valbuena and Matte are frustrating.

1B is a mess.  It was a more crowded mess with Cron involved.  Now that Cron is gone it is less crowded but no less a mess.

The project now needs to be replacing Valbuena with a legitimate quality 1B for 140 games at 1B.

Get that done and have Kaleb Cohart on the roster for defensive flexibility.

All these other plans, to me, seem like they just make the mess at 1B a crowded mess at 1B.

Marte?  Why? Just keep Cron.

Go get a legit 1B.

[eaterfan]

45 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

All these conversations about Valbuena and Matte are frustrating.

1B is a mess.  It was a more crowded mess with Cron involved.  Now that Cron is gone it is less crowded but no less a mess.

The project now needs to be replacing Valbuena with a legitimate quality 1B for 140 games at 1B.

Get that done and have Kaleb Cohart on the roster for defensive flexibility.

All these other plans, to me, seem like they just make the mess at 1B a crowded mess at 1B.

Marte?  Why? Just keep Cron.

Go get a legit 1B.

Who would you get? Keep in mind we're already spending $30+ million of AAV. 

[nando714]

Cron is addition by subtraction 

are people really upset lol

i can play first and its an plus 

[Dtwncbad]

6 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

Who would you get? Keep in mind we're already spending $30+ million of AAV. 

What do you mean $30m?

Are you talking about Pujols and Valbuena?

Pujols SHOULD be playing no more than 15 or 20 games at first, so his salary really should have nothing to do with what you soend on 1B.  Plus I personally don't care about how much money is spent at each position versus managing overall payroll and spending money as wisely as possible to tranlate to wins.

My assessment of what to do here gets rid of Valbuena so his salary isn't relevant to the final roster.  O know the Angels might eat some of it if they had to, but the point is to make a move that works to make the team better.

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, nando714 said:

Cron is addition by subtraction 

are people really upset lol

i can play first and its an plus 

I agree.  Now let's not mess that up by putting another lame player into that roster spot like Marte.

[eaterfan]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

What do you mean $30m?

Are you talking about Pujols and Valbuena?

Pujols SHOULD be playing no more than 15 or 20 games at first, so his salary really should have nothing to do with what you soend on 1B.  Plus I personally don't care about how much money is spent at each position versus managing overall payroll and spending money as wisely as possible to tranlate to wins.

My assessment of what to do here gets rid of Valbuena so his salary isn't relevant to the final roster.  O know the Angels might eat some of it if they had to, but the point is to make a move that works to make the team better.

Whether Pujols should or shouldn't be playing doesn't matter that he takes up a large portion of the Luxury tax threshold. You can't say you don't care about how much money is spent at a position and then say you care about managing overall payroll. If you are spending $50 million on 1B you can't manage your payroll efficiently. Bottom line.

Who is your solution for first base? Who are your suggestions to fix it?

[Angel Oracle]

Valbuena better hit like he did post-2017 ASB, and NOT revert to Valnobuena from the first half of 2017!

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Valbuena better hit like he did post-2017 ASB, and NOT revert to Valnobuena from the first half of 2017!

I think he'll be better. He signed late in the offseason, tore his hamstring and missed all of ST, and just had some bad luck to kick off his year. 

I'm expecting .230/.330/.450/.780, which is a-ok.

[eaterfan]

8 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Valbuena better hit like he did post-2017 ASB, and NOT revert to Valnobuena from the first half of 2017!

Why is 2017 the only year that seems to exist when it comes to Valbuena? 

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

Whether Pujols should or shouldn't be playing doesn't matter that he takes up a large portion of the Luxury tax threshold. You can't say you don't care about how much money is spent at a position and then say you care about managing overall payroll. If you are spending $50 million on 1B you can't manage your payroll efficiently. Bottom line.

Who is your solution for first base? Who are your suggestions to fix it?

Yes I can say that.  And I am not suggesting the Angels spend $50m at 1B.

The Pujols money is spent.  Do you want him playing primarily 1B?  I dont.

If the Angels get a legit 1B that plays 1B 140+ games, how are you adding the Pujols money to money spent on 1B?

 

[eaterfan]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

Yes I can say that.  And I am not suggesting the Angels spend $50m at 1B.

The Pujols money is spent.  Do you want him playing primarily 1B?  I dont.

If the Angels get a legit 1B that plays 1B 140+ games, how are you adding the Pujols money to money spent on 1B?

 

Cause that is what his money is allocated toward. Whether you get value for it or not, we spent that money on 1B/DH. The money doesn't just go away because he isn't playing.

But once again - who do you want to see at 1B?

[Angel Oracle]

2 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

Why is 2017 the only year that seems to exist when it comes to Valbuena? 

From 2014-2016, he put up a .776 OPS in about 1,400 PAs.

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

Cause that is what his money is allocated toward. Whether you get value for it or not, we spent that money on 1B/DH. The money doesn't just go away because he isn't playing.

But once again - who do you want to see at 1B?

Pujols played 6 games at 1B last year.  You really think the Angels spent the Pujols money on 1B last year?

I can list a few names that I think would be upgrades at 1B, but selecting an individual player to land is not the point I am making.

The point I am making is 1B is ugly and I dont want to see the Angels go into 2018 with ugly at 1B.  It is fixable.  Eppler is smart and the Angels have room under the lux tax.

No, the amount of money tied to Pujols should not prevent the Angels from upgrading 1B because anyone is stuck in a fantasy that he is a 1B now.  That was 5 years ago.

[eaterfan]

45 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Pujols played 6 games at 1B last year.  You really think the Angels spent the Pujols money on 1B last year?

I can list a few names that I think would be upgrades at 1B, but selecting an individual player to land is not the point I am making.

The point I am making is 1B is ugly and I dont want to see the Angels go into 2018 with ugly at 1B.  It is fixable.  Eppler is smart and the Angels have room under the lux tax.

No, the amount of money tied to Pujols should not prevent the Angels from upgrading 1B because anyone is stuck in a fantasy that he is a 1B now.  That was 5 years ago.

My point is there aren't many guys available who wouldn't add to our payroll substantially or cost a good amount of minor league talent. You can't name any.

And you can't just say because he didn't play him at first base they aren't paying him to play first base. If you buy a Mercedes for $100k and it breaks down after a month, you still spent that money on a car whether it gets you from point A to point B or not.

[eaterfan]

48 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

From 2014-2016, he put up a .776 OPS in about 1,400 PAs.

Which was good for above average league offense. It's not ideal. But it's not a disaster and it will not be easy to upgrade over that cheaply.

[beatlesrule]

Are you questioning Eppler? Isn't he always right?  

[Dtwncbad]

6 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

My point is there aren't many guys available who wouldn't add to our payroll substantially or cost a good amount of minor league talent. You can't name any.

No I said that me as a fan naming candidates has nothing to do with a disciplined, focused point that 1B for the Angels, as it sits now, looks like a mess.

If I list MY personal choices here, then you will likely follow the shiny object and tell me why my suggestion is no good.

Pujols is not a 1B anymore.  Sooner or later everyone will agree with that statement.  I have arrived there now.  Maybe you have not, and that's fine.

So as long as you mentally assign the Pujols money to 1B, you and I are not going to agree on what to do for 1B.

[Stradling]

I’m willing to see what Albert does on both sides of the ball coming off a healthy off season.  Is he done?  Probably.  Could he bounce back to 2015-2016, sure.  If his legs are healthy he can play some first.  But at 38 injuries happen, so I guess we will have to see how it goes. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Stradling

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’m willing to see what Albert does on both sides of the ball coming off a healthy off season.  Is he done?  Probably.  Could he bounce back to 2015-2016, sure.  If his legs are healthy he can play some first.  But at 38 injuries happen, so I guess we will have to see how it goes. 

I think the Angels see it the exact same way for '18. He's coming in healthy, a normal offseason, a looming threat of competition for his ABs, and a career in need of a turnaround. But he's Albert Pujols, and he's owed a ton of money, so for both sides, it's important that they go into this year hoping for the best.

I do think though that we are starting to see the beginnings of their Pujols contingency plan taking shape if 2017 repeats. 

[Stradling]

Yep. That’s the stark reality of the situation. 

[totdprods]

21 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yep. That’s the stark reality of the situation. 

That, to me, is what makes the Ohtani deal  so crucial. In many ways, he undoes the Pujols deal. 

A 39-year old Pujols who is only good for PH/part-time DH while wasting a roster spot and $25m is almost perfectly counter-balanced by a 24-year old Ohtani who can fill essentially two roster spots at once including the other half of a part-time DH, all for league minimum.

[Angel Oracle]

We just need to hope that Thaiss is ready, come ST 2019, to play at least 140 games at 1B.

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

We just need to hope that Thaiss is ready, come ST 2019, to play at least 140 games at 1B.

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a Sept. look, but also could see Jose Fernandez becoming a transitional option coming later this season, replacing Valbuena's role start of '19, and then ceding to Thaiss after he's played a few AAA weeks in 2019 to add another year of control. 

[Dtwncbad]

10 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

We just need to hope that Thaiss is ready, come ST 2019, to play at least 140 games at 1B.

I really don't want to be negative here but my concerns the 2018 Pujols at 1B thing may be a bust, and then I have to hope Thaiss at 1B in 2019 isn't a bust. . .

He doesn't really seem to project to be any more valuable than the guubthey just kicked to the curb in Cron.

1B is screaming for a real solution.

I very much do get the philosophy that the team shows it's confidence in Pujols going into this year.  The guy is going to be much more agreeable to at some point accepting a limited role when he himself accepts his own decline rather than the team playing hardball with him today.

But that may come at the expense of wins and losses in 2018.  I wish that was not true.

Wouldn't it be great if Pujols himself said his playing time should mot interfere with Ohtanis ideal number of plate appearances and also should not be a priority over the team securing a legitimate 1B?

That would probably still give him about 70 or 80 games at DH and 10-20 at 1B, for a total of about 350 plate appearances.

I know, I know how can you play a guy less when you pay him that much?  And my only answer is if I spent a huge amount of money on eggs, do I keep eating them even after they are going bad?  How can I throw away eggs that I paid for?