C.J. Cron to the Tampa Bay Rays

[arch stanton]

4 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

That would be Albert. The knock against Cron was he hit RH same as Marte. Cron was better than Marte. Marte hit .173 last year. Cowart can hit better than that and play way better defense.

How is Albert going to be the platoon partner at 1B on the days he's DH?

Edited February 18, 2018 by arch stanton

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

20 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

How is Albert going to be the platoon partner at 1B on the days he's DH?

He doesn't have to DH when it's a LHP. Anyone can DH plus Cowart could play 1B against LHP, there isn't that many. Plus Cowart is a better defender than Marte. Marte hit .185.280.354.634 against LHP last season. He had a career half season in 2016, but nothing before or after that. Plus I hate the "Marte Parte" saying with a passion. I would rather have Cowart play 5th infielder at least we won't give away anything on defense.

At AAA Cowart hit .352/.442/.489/.931 against LHP.

[eaterfan]

1 hour ago, Scotty@AW said:

I just really don't think signing Luis Valbuena was a great move. Sure, his offensive production pretty much mirrors Cron's, but Valbuena only hits against RHP. And while he does play 3B, he doesn't do it particularly well.

So he can be a starting 1B, but not a particularly good one, and only against RHP. And he can fill in at 3B in pinch, but again, only against RHP and probably not for an extended period of time.

He's just an extremely limited player.

When there are limited ABs to go around I'd rather have a guy like Valbuena who can do one thing well (hit RHP) and does one thing poorly (hit LHP) than someone who does both at a mediocre level. You don't have to play Valbuena against LHP and you get more efficient production than what you would get from Cron.

[Erstad Grit]

Even duda is better than cron and his  .300 OBP.  This is a good minimal salary dump which another poster stated allows us to have LV not be the backup 3b. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

31 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

When there are limited ABs to go around I'd rather have a guy like Valbuena who can do one thing well (hit RHP) and does one thing poorly (hit LHP) than someone who does both at a mediocre level. You don't have to play Valbuena against LHP and you get more efficient production than what you would get from Cron.

Valbuena last season against RHP .210/.305/.460/.765. I wouldn't call that WELL. I know look at the second half. The thing is every game game counts just not half of them.

Valbuena 2nd half .213/.320/.546/.866 - 16 HR - 42 RBI

Cron 2nd half .267/.326/.512/.838 - 14 HR - 42 RBI

Basically Luis and Cron had identical 2nd halves but Cron was trashed on here while everyone thought Luis redeemed himself in the second half. Plus Cron plays a better 1B. Overall Cron had a better year than Valbuena.  .199.294.432.727 to .248.305.437.741. The only thing Valbuena did that Cron couldn't was play 3B. Even though Luis wasn't very good fielder at first or third.

[Stradling]

Yes but if they’re relatively the same offensively and one is more versatile then you keep the one that’s more versatile. 

[eaterfan]

7 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Valbuena last season against RHP .210/.305/.460/.765. I wouldn't call that WELL. I know look at the second half. The thing is every game game counts just not half of them.

Valbuena 2nd half .213/.320/.546/.866 - 16 HR - 42 RBI

Cron 2nd half .267/.326/.512/.838 - 14 HR - 42 RBI

Basically Luis and Cron had identical 2nd halves but Cron was trashed on here while everyone thought Luis redeemed himself in the second half. Plus Cron plays a better 1B. Overall Cron had a better year than Valbuena.  .199.294.432.727 to .248.305.437.741. The only thin Valbuena did that Cron couldn't was play 3B. Even though Luis wasn't very good fielder at first or third.

I think judging players by how they performed in one year is the best way to judge them. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yes but if they’re relatively the same offensively and one is more versatile then you keep the one that’s more versatile. 

Valbuena won't play much at 3B, with Cozart there. Besides Cowart is a much better 3B than Valbuena. Luis just doesn't pass the eye test for me that's all. Just like with Escobar I cringed whenever he threw the ball to first base. I could change my mind if he could hit .230 with an OPS of .800 on the season but I sincerely doubt it.

[Stradling]

Just now, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Valbuena won't play much at 3B, with Cozart there. Besides Cowart is a much better 3B than Valbuena. Luis just doesn't pass the eye test for me that's all. Just like with Escobar I cringed whenever he threw the ball to first base. I could change my mind if he could hit .230 with an OPS of .800 on the season but I sincerely doubt it.

I understand what you’re saying, but Cron was literally incapable of playing 3rd.  So even if he plays 3rd once a month, which is very possible, well you need a 3rd baseman. 

[JustATroutFan]

7 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

I think judging players by how they performed in one year is the best way to judge them. 

Valbuena's only had 2 good years out of 8 that he's record at least 300 plate appearances.

[eaterfan]

4 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

Valbuena's only had 2 good years out of 8 that he's record at least 300 plate appearances.

He's put up an above average OPS+ three of the last 4 years and he's put up at least 1.5 WAR in four of the last five years.

[JustATroutFan]

2 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

He's put up an above average OPS+ three of the last 4 years and he's put up at least 1.5 WAR in four of the last five years.

Just because a hitter has an OPS+ of over 100 doesn't mean he put up a good OPS. OPS+ is just compared to the league average. Would you say a hitter is "good" if he puts up a .320 OBP, .730 OPS and a 110 OPS+?

[eaterfan]

2 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

Just because a hitter has an OPS+ of over 100 doesn't mean he put up a good OPS. OPS+ is just compared to the league average. Would you say a hitter is "good" if he puts up a .320 OBP, .730 OPS and a 110 OPS+?

No. But we don't have a good hitter at 1B on the roster.

[JustATroutFan]

3 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

No. But we don't have a good hitter at 1B on the roster.

If Pujols can put up his 2016 slash line,  then it will still be a solid year. An OPS of .780 is solid. I know, expectations have been lowered for Pujols. Still overpaid but not that bad. A lot of guys would love to have a .780 OPS in a season.

[Ohtaniland]

20 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

If Pujols can......

How many posts have we seen over the years that started like this one.

 

 

[JustATroutFan]

1 minute ago, OHTANILAND said:

How many posts have we seen over the years that started like this one.

 

 

Way more of these type of posts since the Pujols era than during the years 2002-2009.

[HaloRed]

Enter Hosmer?

[eaterfan]

37 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

If Pujols can put up his 2016 slash line,  then it will still be a solid year. An OPS of .780 is solid. I know, expectations have been lowered for Pujols. Still overpaid but not that bad. A lot of guys would love to have a .780 OPS in a season.

If Valbuena can put up his 2016 slash line, then it will be a solid year. An OPS of .816 is solid. I know expectations have been lowered for Valbuena. A lot of guys would love to have an .816 OPS season.

[tomsred]

Don't you think if Eppler could have dumped Pujols and his salary instead of Cron he would have done it.  There is no way out of this riddle.  I don't think first base is a difficult position to fill at this point, or virtually any other point during the season, if need be.  Eppler will figure this all out.  I like the versatility of this roster without Cron.  It certainly opens up space for Cowart, and I think he will eventually figure hitting out, in the meantime he's a terrific fielder at several positions.

 

[eaterfan]

8 minutes ago, HaloRed said:

Enter Hosmer?

He just signed an 8 year deal with the Padres. But, I don't think a team can win spending $60 million a year on 1B.

[ettin]

4 hours ago, Warfarin said:

This move probably paves the way for Cowart to open with the team.  His ability to play 2B/3B will add more depth for us, and also give us the possibility of another LH in the lineup on various days.

Moreover, it enables us to stay strong defensively.  Having Valbuena cover 3B on off days for Cozart was going to be suboptimal defensively.  Now, with Cowart backing him up, we can ensure we can roll out a strong defensive configuration pretty much every single day.

Cowart has an option left and as it currently stands the Angels have 12 position players and generally the team, in the past, has started the season with 5 starters and 8 relievers as the rotation candidates stretch their arms out in the early going, requiring additional bullpen help. Barring a trade he will certainly be up throughout the year as needed.

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

LoMo seems like the obvious FA fit that could exist, but Boston, KC, SD, and St. L all seem like they could still offer him more money and playing time. He's from KC and makes a ton of sense for the Royals if Moose and Hosmer depart. Still, he'd fit wonderfully on this team as a 1B who could spot our COFs and limit the need for an everyday 4th OF on the bench. 

I wonder if a guy like Neil Walker is on their radar at all. Switch-hitter, could cover 1B, 2B, 3B, maybe even LF in an emergency.

Seth Smith, Michael Saunders, Chris Young could sort of fit.

I think at this point the only way we are acquiring someone like Neil Walker or trading for someone like Matt Carpenter is if we move Luis Valbuena in trade (which is also possible in my opinion).

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

I imagine a possible PTBNL will be someone who gets bumped off of Tampa's 40 by end of ST.

4 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

My guess is we get one of the AA or AAA relievers with the Rays that projects as a middle reliever in a year or two.

Basically an Adam Hofacket type.

As for this paving the way for another move, doubtful. The team is pretty much set. I think the final bench spot will be up for grabs between Cowart and Marte, unless a better option presents itself.

Marte has power, plays 1B, 3B and LF, and Cowart can play the corner infields and 2B. Probably corner OF too, though not much of a bat...yet. Maybe in the future but not right now.

Cron didn't have a tremendous amount of value and with him going to the Rays I have to imagine Scotty is right and it is more of a lottery ticket type player. Probably something close to the value of what the Twins just gave up for Odorizzi in my eyes give or take.

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

There were also plenty of times where we gave him regular playing time and he was awful.

People often forget is inconsistency (some of it due to injury) but the fact is that he has had time to prove himself and he failed to show us all he can be. Best of luck to him in Tampa.

14 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

How many posts have we seen over the years that started like this one.

 

 

Well I just checked your post count and it is at 12,210 so????

Just now, tomsred said:

Don't you think if Eppler could have dumped Pujols and his salary instead of Cron he would have done it.  There is no way out of this riddle.  I don't think first base is a difficult position to fill at this point, or virtually any other point during the season, if need be.  Eppler will figure this all out.  I like the versatility of this roster without Cron.  It certainly opens up space for Cowart, and I think he will eventually figure hitting out, in the meantime he's a terrific fielder at several positions.

 

Yep, No Way Out, until there is a way out.

[Docwaukee]

25 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

How many posts have we seen over the years that started like this one.

 

 

by you?  

all of them.  

[Docwaukee]

btw, this move is just roster math.  

I made a post the other day outlining CJ Cron and why we will keep him.  But as I was posting his numbers it made me realize how expendable he is/was.  

1bmen who produce league avg offense are a dime a dozen.  

[Rico]

Wasn't Cron super happy on twitter when the Ohtani signing happened?   Awkward...

[eaterfan]

8 hours ago, JustATroutFan said:

If Pujols can put up his 2016 slash line,  then it will still be a solid year. An OPS of .780 is solid. I know, expectations have been lowered for Pujols. Still overpaid but not that bad. A lot of guys would love to have a .780 OPS in a season.

If Valbuena can put up his 2016 slash line he'll be better than that.