Messy situation at 1B

[Angelsjunky]

I think I figured out the problem: The Angels haven't be using those Trout options.

[Dtwncbad]

Hey Blargy,

You want to teach me about accepting evolution and changing mindset and being willing to see things differently?

Https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Allan_Roth

I worked for this guy directly for a couple of years in the 1980s (before Moneyball) pulling stats together for national broadcasts and my marching orders from Allan were to try to focus on things more interesting than batting average.  Every other conversation with him was how batting average was meaningless compared to other measurements.  He and I (and another friend of mine) would sit in Allan's house on the floor sifting through paper methodically to construct stats like OB% versus LHP this month, etc so the talking heads on ABC would have interesting shit to say.  ABC didnt even like the data, but Allan didn't care and thats the content we gave them anyway.  So long before you ever heard about Moneyball, you big mouth, I was a living active element in the pioneering of changing how people looked at stats.

Now you tell me something about your personal experience in being on the cutting edge of baseball evolution that even comes close to that and I will start listening to your criticisms of my acceptance of change.

[Troll Daddy]

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

Maybe we've all been thinking about this thing backwards. Also, where the fuck is the 80's rock reference in that tweet? Gubi is slipping.

[Tank]

5 hours ago, Dochalo said:

it's not to maintain health.  It's that metrics support not exposing pitchers 3rd and 4th time through the order.  Or just having more specialized relief.  

TJ surg actually peaked from 2012 to 2015.  It seems to be leveling off a bit.  So fewer innings per start don't seem to be correlating to fewer injuries.  

i went to the memorial service for dr. frank jobe. one of the guys on his medical team mentioned that as they looked at major league rosters, they roughly calculated that some 60% of pitchers have had TJ surgery. Kind of a staggering number, imo.

[Tank]

1 minute ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

Maybe Nolan Ryan is correct, manager's need to stop babying pitchers. In the old day's pitcher's thru 200 300 innings. Building arm strength maybe the solution. 

 

[Lou]

23 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

Overreacting with long winded rants is my thing. Get your own!

I agree 

[disarcina]

Nolan Ryan may be right -- but he's from another era and this generation of MLB is going in the other direction.

The Ohtani effect -- if the one start a week plan works and is effective -- may start a trend of six man rotations, once a week pitchers who pitch five/ six innings and then have deep pens of pre-set up guys and pre pre set up guys and closers finish up the game ------that's the trend.  150 -175 IP starters vs. Nolan Ryan's day of guys making 35-40 starts, pitching complete games and 300 plus innings a year.......those days are gone -- probably forever.

that being said, I like Nolan Ryan's way better.  I still would put Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson, Bob Feller and few others in their prime against any of today's starters. (Although I have to give a shout out to one guy who I think could hang with those HOF'ers -- Clayton Kershaw and one other guy who has the work ethic - if not the 'stuff' of those guys - Madison Bumgarner).

[Lou]

On December 28, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Dtwncbad said:

Having guys go every sixth day and more pitches per start is way worse than five man rotation and just watching the pitch count.

Why is it a fact that if a pitcher goes every sixth day it automatically means he will make more pitches per start? 

How about if he has the same pitch count limit and goes every sixth day? 

 

On December 28, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Stradling said:

find it very hard to believe all the Angel starters are going to be cool with marking themselves as limited innings starters rather than proving they can take the ball every fifth day.

What would be the difference in innings pitched between a starter in a 5-man rotation and one in a six-man rotation? 

 

[Stradling]

About 20% less starts

[Troll Daddy]

7 minutes ago, Lou said:

Why is it a fact that if a pitcher goes every sixth day it automatically means he will make more pitches per start? 

How about if he has the same pitch count limit and goes every sixth day? 

 

What would be the difference in innings pitched between a starter in a 5-man rotation and one in a six-man rotation? 

 

Wouldn’t a 7 man rotation be more advantageous? 

[arch stanton]

You can’t really put one thing in a vacuum like that. Today’s hitters have video and data on every pitcher’s tendencies. They tailor their swings for launch angle. Maple bats. They have lost their fear of plate diving. You see so many opposite field home runs because they don’t fear the fastball in the ear hole. If you pitch to contact today you risk allowing Scooter F’in Gannett having a 4 home run game. 

They have to pitch for strikeouts and they have much higher pitch counts as a result. And for every Ryan and Gibson who survived the workload remember Koufax and Drysdale were done at 32 and a guy like Steve Busby who threw 2 no hitters vanished due to arm problems. Instead of looking backwards and trying to “make baseball great again “ maybe look forward and let it evolve 

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Troll Daddy said:

Wouldn’t a 7 man rotation be more advantageous? 

Not more than an 8-man rotation 

[Troll Daddy]

Just now, Lou said:

Not more than an 8-man rotation 

Why stop there 

[arch stanton]

1 minute ago, Troll Daddy said:

Wouldn’t a 7 man rotation be more advantageous? 

Wouldn’t making an occasional attempt at a thoughtful post be advantageous? They’re trying to find a proper balance between utilizing your best pitchers as often as possible and keeping them fresh and healthy. At some point you risk letting them pitch cold and not allowing the best of them to pitch as often as they could. I’d rather let this play out and see what they actually do with the top 4 before going farther 

[Lou]

7 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Hey Blargy,

You want to teach me about accepting evolution and changing mindset and being willing to see things differently?

Https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Allan_Roth

I worked for this guy directly for a couple of years in the 1980s (before Moneyball) pulling stats together for national broadcasts and my marching orders from Allan were to try to focus on things more interesting than batting average.  Every other conversation with him was how batting average was meaningless compared to other measurements.  He and I (and another friend of mine) would sit in Allan's house on the floor sifting through paper methodically to construct stats like OB% versus LHP this month, etc so the talking heads on ABC would have interesting shit to say.  ABC didnt even like the data, but Allan didn't care and thats the content we gave them anyway.  So long before you ever heard about Moneyball, you big mouth, I was a living active element in the pioneering of changing how people looked at stats.

Now you tell me something about your personal experience in being on the cutting edge of baseball evolution that even comes close to that and I will start listening to your criticisms of my acceptance of change.

Ladies and Gentlemen, "In the Industry" guy has just entered the building 

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Why stop there 

You don't.

161-man rotation*

 

 

*Trout gets 2 starts because Trout 

[Lou]

11 minutes ago, Stradling said:

About 20% less starts

What if they're "Yu in the World Series"-type starts? 

[Dtwncbad]

31 minutes ago, Lou said:

Ladies and Gentlemen, "In the Industry" guy has just entered the building 

More like "not taking crap from big mouths picking fights" guy is here

[Blarg]

8 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Hey Blargy,

You want to teach me about accepting evolution and changing mindset and being willing to see things differently?

Https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Allan_Roth

I worked for this guy directly for a couple of years in the 1980s (before Moneyball) pulling stats together for national broadcasts and my marching orders from Allan were to try to focus on things more interesting than batting average.  Every other conversation with him was how batting average was meaningless compared to other measurements.  He and I (and another friend of mine) would sit in Allan's house on the floor sifting through paper methodically to construct stats like OB% versus LHP this month, etc so the talking heads on ABC would have interesting shit to say.  ABC didnt even like the data, but Allan didn't care and thats the content we gave them anyway.  So long before you ever heard about Moneyball, you big mouth, I was a living active element in the pioneering of changing how people looked at stats.

Now you tell me something about your personal experience in being on the cutting edge of baseball evolution that even comes close to that and I will start listening to your criticisms of my acceptance of change.

I pitched and played shortstop in little league from 1969-1970. Top that nerd boy.

Seriously your responses have been, I don't have time to search Google, I work hard and I'm not that involved, this is the way it has always been, I did some research back in 1980 that someone smarter compiled and made a career out of.

I mean, how can I argue with that?

[Tank]

8 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Hey Blargy,

i like this.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

On 12/28/2017 at 11:47 AM, Angel Oracle said:

Grandal makes sense as #2 catcher/backup 1B.    The problem, if trading Cron, is Valnobuena's very questionable 1B defense.  Can the Halos survive Valnobuena playing some 80 games at 1B?

If you are acquiring the LHH Grandal, you might as well trade Valnobuena and eat whatever part of the salary has to be eaten and see if you can get a decent reliever in exchange.

Given your description of Valbuena, who would give up a decent reliever for him?

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

3 hours ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Given your description of Valbuena, who would give up a decent reliever for him?

We picked up 3 good relievers last year for practically nothing. Plus he suggested eating some of Valbuena's salary.

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Given your description of Valbuena, who would give up a decent reliever for him?

Maybe a serviceable one?   Then again, Eppler finds them without trading anyone anyway.

Never mind!

[Dtwncbad]

13 hours ago, Blarg said:

I pitched and played shortstop in little league from 1969-1970. Top that nerd boy.

Seriously your responses have been, I don't have time to search Google, I work hard and I'm not that involved, this is the way it has always been, I did some research back in 1980 that someone smarter compiled and made a career out of.

I mean, how can I argue with that?

Ok I managed 18 baseball teams, and covered the Angels professionally for a national sports publication, and was editor for three sports magazines.

Your turn.  Did you do some catching that one year in little league too?