Official 2017 World Series Thread

[nando714]

I wonder why he went with Darvish over Kershaw. Kershaw who only lasted 4 2/3 in game 5. Darvish got hammered in game 3. 

I guess Roberts was hoping to get a lead and bring Kershaw in to slam the door à la Bumgarner against KC. 

Darvish gave you zero confidence after game 3, I guess it’s easier to question now after a loss, but I’d live and die with the best pitcher in baseball than Yu. 

 

[Inside Pitch]

7 hours ago, calscuf said:

Dipoto was a sabremetrics guy and was suppose to bring the Angels out of the dark ages of baseball.  He fired Hatcher which was like Christmas here.  Many of his moves didn't work out, but many of them were applauded, no, LOVED, when they were made.  In hindsight everyone wants to trash talk him.  Five year ago he was an AW god.

While your comments may be true of some it certainly wasn't true of everyone here -- at least not how you are painting the situation IMO. 

There is little argument people were happy to see Reagins go while at the same time enthused by the idea of a saber-minded GM at the helm -- but the questioning of his adherence to saber-principles started early on (by some), and there was never a time when his minor league decision making wasn't questioned.  From day one I openly questioned how a guy who claimed to believe the things he did would make the moves he made -- they didn't add up and in some cases were the exact opposite of what a saber guy would do..   But as was common in those early days... questioning Dipoto meant you were a blind MS lover..   

That's really what drove a lot of people here and fueled much of the JD love-fest... his status as the Anti-Mike Scioscia.... that alone bought him a lot of good will with many and blinded them to his misdeeds.   It didn't matter how involved (AP signing), or uninvolved (Trumbo trade), he was always either absolved of guilt or given all the credit .... depending on whether or not a move worked.  The underlying theme was always that -- Oh, Mike Scioscia is fighting him or, Arte is forcing him to do ________.   Even the minor league call ups where someone else's fault -- it got to be really effing ridiculous.   FWIW,  I won't say it was all bad because it wasn't -- getting rid of Wells was beautiful as was the Conger trade.   He just wasn't sufficiently good and that's not revisionist history, it's reality.

There has certainly been a 180 for many here but IMO it's wrong to say everyone was totally on board and I do believe some of what is driving the change of opinion may be the reality that people are seeing him repeat many of his actions in Seattle.  Regardless of of whether people's opinions have changed or why -- IMO there is little doubt his tenure as the GM of the Angels left a lot to be desired.

If Hindsight has shown us anything its that JD is an expert talker - it's his greatest gift really.  He won over a lot of people at hello.  He was able to win even more people by showing up at the AW.com events and being so seemingly candid and saying the things everyone had wanted to hear -- but it was mostly just talk and history has made that clear.  Another thing that's become pretty obvious -- he was the instigator in most of the drama.   There had never been any leaks and talk of infighting in Anaheim during the Stoneman or even Reagins years -- I don't doubt there were in house feuding and the sort -- but it rarely leaked to the press.  Compare that to the JD era -- almost from day one there was always something leaking to the press.  People can pretend that wasn't an attempt to undermine others but, c'mon...  was there ever a leak that didn't make JD seem like the good guy?   All of that BS stopped the minute he took his ball and went home.  Again, JD knew how to play up to the audience -- he milked the anti-MS thing for all he could as long as he could -- not unlike how he is now the Anti-Jack Z in Seattle.  Talk about knowing how to pick your spots.  Is it any wonder that all the same shit seems to be working it's way to the press in Seattle?  If you want to see history repeating itself - read Lookout Landing...

Conversely -- Billy Eppler got shit on when he first made it to Anaheim because A - he want JeDi.   And B --  he didn't seem openly antagonistic towards MS.   Two years in there is little doubt the guy who talked down his saber side has had a far greater saber influence on the club or a greater impact on the farm system.  

[Angel Dog and Beer]

On 10/24/2017 at 3:39 PM, Angel Dog and Beer said:

I really think its going to come down to who scores the most runs and wins four games first. That said, I'm taking the 'Stros in 7. I predict this will be a classic series, one for the ages. 

Nostradamus!

[fan_since79]

1 hour ago, nando714 said:

I wonder why he went with Darvish over Kershaw. Kershaw who only lasted 4 2/3 in game 5. Darvish got hammered in game 3. 

I guess Roberts was hoping to get a lead and bring Kershaw in to slam the door à la Bumgarner against KC. 

Darvish gave you zero confidence after game 3, I guess it’s easier to question now after a loss, but I’d live and die with the best pitcher in baseball than Yu. 

 

I would have lifted Darvish after the first inning. It was obvious he didn't have it. You don't let him face Springer for the second time there.

[Blarg]

No Magic in this team.

[Inside Pitch]

10 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

I would have lifted Darvish after the first inning. It was obvious he didn't have it. You don't let him face Springer for the second time there.

I dont think it was him -- MLB fucked with the balls, went with a smoother ball and as a result all the guys that throw hard sliders sucked ass this series..  Houston's closer became completely ineffective because his slider went to shit.   Darvish slider went flat didn't bend and he got lit up...

Just more MLB gamesmanship IMO -- recent statistical research showed that the slider had become the most effective pitch in MLB -- so they basically cut it off at the knees for the postseason.

[Ohtaniland]

13 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I dont think it was him -- MLB fucked with the balls, went with a smoother ball and as a result all the guys that throw hard sliders sucked ass this series..  Houston's closer became completely ineffective because his slider went to shit.   Darvish slider went flat didn't bend and he got lit up...

Just more MLB gamesmanship IMO -- recent statistical research showed that the slider had become the most effective pitch in MLB -- so they basically cut it off at the knees for the postseason.

I have a 1977 world series ball. I’ve been so tempted to saw it in half and compare it to a new ball. But I just can’t. 

[fan_since79]

Aaron Boone on ESPN radio said he thought Darvish might have been tipping his pitches, and the hitters knew what was coming.

I haven't heard that discussed anywhere else.

[Troll Daddy]

No respect from Vegas 

 

[Troll Daddy]

Proof that life isn’t fair

 

[Troll Daddy]

Why Carlos why? Way too young imo 

 

[Troll Daddy]

[Blarg]

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

While your comments may be true of some it certainly wasn't true of everyone here -- at least not how you are painting the situation IMO. 

There is little argument people were happy to see Reagins go while at the same time enthused by the idea of a saber-minded GM at the helm -- but the questioning of his adherence to saber-principles started early on (by some), and there was never a time when his minor league decision making wasn't questioned.  From day one I openly questioned how a guy who claimed to believe the things he did would make the moves he made -- they didn't add up and in some cases were the exact opposite of what a saber guy would do..   But as was common in those early days... questioning Dipoto meant you were a blind MS lover..   

That's really what drove a lot of people here and fueled much of the JD love-fest... his status as the Anti-Mike Scioscia.... that alone bought him a lot of good will with many and blinded them to his misdeeds.   It didn't matter how involved (AP signing), or uninvolved (Trumbo trade), he was always either absolved of guilt or given all the credit .... depending on whether or not a move worked.  The underlying theme was always that -- Oh, Mike Scioscia is fighting him or, Arte is forcing him to do ________.   Even the minor league call ups where someone else's fault -- it got to be really effing ridiculous.   FWIW,  I won't say it was all bad because it wasn't -- getting rid of Wells was beautiful as was the Conger trade.   He just wasn't sufficiently good and that's not revisionist history, it's reality.

There has certainly been a 180 for many here but IMO it's wrong to say everyone was totally on board and I do believe some of what is driving the change of opinion may be the reality that people are seeing him repeat many of his actions in Seattle.  Regardless of of whether people's opinions have changed or why -- IMO there is little doubt his tenure as the GM of the Angels left a lot to be desired.

If Hindsight has shown us anything its that JD is an expert talker - it's his greatest gift really.  He won over a lot of people at hello.  He was able to win even more people by showing up at the AW.com events and being so seemingly candid and saying the things everyone had wanted to hear -- but it was mostly just talk and history has made that clear.  Another thing that's become pretty obvious -- he was the instigator in most of the drama.   There had never been any leaks and talk of infighting in Anaheim during the Stoneman or even Reagins years -- I don't doubt there were in house feuding and the sort -- but it rarely leaked to the press.  Compare that to the JD era -- almost from day one there was always something leaking to the press.  People can pretend that wasn't an attempt to undermine others but, c'mon...  was there ever a leak that didn't make JD seem like the good guy?   All of that BS stopped the minute he took his ball and went home.  Again, JD knew how to play up to the audience -- he milked the anti-MS thing for all he could as long as he could -- not unlike how he is now the Anti-Jack Z in Seattle.  Talk about knowing how to pick your spots.  Is it any wonder that all the same shit seems to be working it's way to the press in Seattle?  If you want to see history repeating itself - read Lookout Landing...

Conversely -- Billy Eppler got shit on when he first made it to Anaheim because A - he want JeDi.   And B --  he didn't seem openly antagonistic towards MS.   Two years in there is little doubt the guy who talked down his saber side has had a far greater saber influence on the club or a greater impact on the farm system.  

Dipoto's real legacy will be his inability to add talent to the farm system, and his complete cluster fuck on the international stage. His big league moves were mostly a mixed bag and that's why it took so long for people to come around on him. 

Reagins made huge shit moves at the major league level, which is what earned him his reputation. Eppler, I have been fairly happy with from the start.

[yk9001]

24 minutes ago, ThomasSutpen said:

ARod asked Beltran about this during the postgame and Beltran's immediate sly grin is pretty telling. Then Beltran kinda confirms that he was tipping but doesnt get too much into it before David Ortiz and ARod kinda cut him off.

I got news for you - the Astros were tipping their pitches with Bellinger and Seager.  If there were two strikes, a breaking ball was coming.  

They couldn't do anything about it.

[T.G.]

When is the parade in downtown LA?

[UndertheHalo]

Also, to be fair.  A lot of the damage that DiPoto did wasn’t really visible until the very end of his employment with the Angels.  That year that he left mid season was probably the darkest long term outlook for the Angels that I’ve seen as a fan.  I really think that if he had stayed even one more season the type of turnaround we’re trying to pull off right now would not have been possible.  The Angels couldn’t have survived anothe Dipoto draft IMO.  We really were at the edge of the baseball abyss.

We’re not scouts, how could we know what a train wreck his drafts were.  Or how utterly awful the Baldoquin thing was.  I recall making a thread here 3 or 4 years ago wondering what the fuck was up with the international acquisitions.  The picture of what a disaster he was developed pretty slowly. 

Reagins got rid of a scouting and minor league group that had success to be sure.  But one that had also missed pretty badly for several years before they finally had some hits with Trout, Richards and Calhoun.  Huge hits to be sure but still.  The next draft was also awful.  I don’t fault Arte or Reagins for looking else where.  It just turned out that in the end Artes choice in Dipoto was far, far worse.  It’s like IP says, Dipoto was great at talking.  Arte bought in apparently, and so did most of us. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Calzone said:

I have a 1977 world series ball. I’ve been so tempted to saw it in half and compare it to a new ball. But I just can’t. 

If you did, I'd hope you trip and break a bone.   Just saying.

[Angel Oracle]

First order of business for Manfred:   Do something about the ridiculous length of the games.

[UndertheHalo]

14 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

First order of business for Manfred:   Do something about the ridiculous length of the games.

What should he do ? Baseball is baseball.  Love it or don’t.  Leave it alone.  

[fan_since79]

19 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

First order of business for Manfred:   Do something about the ridiculous length of the games.

How many times did McCann go out to the mound to have a chat with his pitcher? Like a hundred?

That has to stop.

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

22 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

First order of business for Manfred:   Do something about the ridiculous length of the games.

• No more free timeout
• Only the pitcher is allowed to stand on the mound with time in
• Batter can be tagged out if completely outside of the batters box
• Pitcher can only hold the ball for 20 seconds after receiving it back

[Blarg]

Maybe you guys didn't notice the in game ads. Get used to it because when the game slows down MLB will be making money. 

This unnecessary pitching mound visit is brought to you by Duracell. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

Just now, Blarg said:

Maybe you guys didn't notice the in game ads. Get used to it because when the game slows down MLB will be making money. 

This unnecessary pitching mound visit is brought to you by Duracell. 

Unfortunately it seems that Fox figured out a way to make money off of it before MLB figured out a way to limit it...

[ukyah]

6 hours ago, Stradling said:

As great as this World Series was, it was also a glimpse into what it looks like when you make most of your pitching decisions based on analytics.  Roberts changed pitchers super early all series long. Hell even yesterday he pulls Darvish out after giving up the homer when there were two outs.  He did this with Darvish batting third the next half inning.  Let the guy finish the inning, no one was on base.  So then you bring in a guy for one batter (Morrow), when you’ve overused your pen all series.  

i understand your point, but i would've pulled yu  after he walked mccann. he was struggling with every pitch.