Just a reminder

[Tank]

1 hour ago, tennischmp said:

 I don't disagree the these were great trades and I am only talking about the affect on 2017.  IMO the chances of them winning the WS didn't dramatically improve. Making the playoffs? Sure they have a much better shot. Winning the WS? not so much. 

We can talk about this being a 5 year plan after we see what happens with Upton this off season. Right now it's a 30 day plan to me. 

when your cup is half empty, it's okay to refill your cup.

[floplag]

People need to learn to think outside the box.  Pitching does not always win, this seasons team is 100% proof of that.  Even at the championship level it isnt an absolute.  Even aces have off days and if all those eggs are in that basket you are screwed.  
Balance is far better in my opinion, but thats just me. 

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

This is why I wanted Verlander.

But like Stradling said, we needed bats too. On paper Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Riddell look good enough. Skaggs just shit the bed last night and now we get Nolasco today.

I totally get what you're saying @tennischmp. We can't have it all though. Next year we have a lot of options at SP in Shoemaker, Tropeano, Barria, N. Smith, Morales, Ramirez to go along with a full season (hopefully) of Richards, Heaney, Bridwell, Skaggs and possibly a FA starting pitcher addition. Plus no Nolasco thank God.

I like the thought of making Shoe into a late innings splitter specialist.   He could be dynamite there, and not throw too many splitters (hard on the elbow).

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

People need to learn to think outside the box.  Pitching does not always win, this seasons team is 100% proof of that.  Even at the championship level it isnt an absolute.  Even aces have off days and if all those eggs are in that basket you are screwed.  
Balance is far better in my opinion, but thats just me. 

Flop I know you hate when I do this but this year is actual proof that it is pitching that gets teams to the playoffs.  In the NL the top four teams in ERA are the top four teams in the standings.  In the AL four of the top five pitching teams are holding play off spots with the Angels being 6th.  

[Angel Oracle]

I would have loved to add Verlander.   But I also understand the damage it could do to the farm.

[Angel Oracle]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Flop I know you hate when I do this but this year is actual proof that it is pitching that gets teams to the playoffs.  In the NL the top four teams in ERA are the top four teams in the standings.  In the AL four of the top five pitching teams are holding play off spots with the Angels being 6th.  

Pitching clearly kept the Halos in the race.  Well that and the comeback wins.

[floplag]

48 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Flop I know you hate when I do this but this year is actual proof that it is pitching that gets teams to the playoffs.  In the NL the top four teams in ERA are the top four teams in the standings.  In the AL four of the top five pitching teams are holding play off spots with the Angels being 6th.  

Strictly speaking, yes, but looking at our team with our original starting 5 all gone to the DL also suggests that it doesnt have to be aces, is more what my post was to suggest, though i dont think i worded it well.  
It was our depth that saved our arse basically, and none of them were top guys. 

[Puget Sound Angel]

At least Pujols is not the only one "protecting" Trouty in the lineup.

[Junkballer]

5 hours ago, tennischmp said:

I get it, it helps make the playoffs. Except for me making the playoffs isn't enough. Losing 9-8 in the 1 game playoff is no better than not making the playoffs. You make these moves to win the WS, not just to make the playoffs, because there is a good chance both Upton and Phillips are just for this year. 

I don't get this outlook. Of course having an opportunity to advance is better than not having an opportunity, win or lose.  By extension, its like saying missing the playoffs by one game is no better than going 0-162.  

When the org depth is built up to where playoffs are a probable outcome, the philosophy can change to filling in all the last boxes.   To make the moves to fulfill the objective you laid out would require him to sign all three, because Verlander by himself wouldn't be enough.

[Dick B Back]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Pitching clearly kept the Halos in the race.  Well that and the comeback wins.

And Sosh.

[Broad Street]

We have a few talented position players in the minors, but what about pitchers? 

[tennischmp]

2 hours ago, Junkballer said:

I don't get this outlook. Of course having an opportunity to advance is better than not having an opportunity, win or lose.  By extension, its like saying missing the playoffs by one game is no better than going 0-162.  

When the org depth is built up to where playoffs are a probable outcome, the philosophy can change to filling in all the last boxes.   To make the moves to fulfill the objective you laid out would require him to sign all three, because Verlander by himself wouldn't be enough.

At least, going 0-162 gets you get a #1 pick.

[Jeff Fletcher]

I would be super scared of Verlander if you're getting him with the idea he's going to be an ace beyond the next 2 months. He's 34 and has thrown a million innings. Just in 2014 he had a bad year and people were saying he was declining. Then he was hurt in 2015. He's bounced back, but how much longer will it go? 

Look at guys like Cain, Weaver, CC, Felix. 

Those innings take a toll. 

For the Astros, it makes sense. They have a legit shot to win the World Series right now so they aren't as concerned if Verlander stinks in 18 or 19. Also, they have lots of prospects. And no one else making $20M+. 

Upton makes much more sense for the Angels. 

[floplag]

19 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I would be super scared of Verlander if you're getting him with the idea he's going to be an ace beyond the next 2 months. He's 34 and has thrown a million innings. Just in 2014 he had a bad year and people were saying he was declining. Then he was hurt in 2015. He's bounced back, but how much longer will it go? 

Look at guys like Cain, Weaver, CC, Felix. 

Those innings take a toll. 

For the Astros, it makes sense. They have a legit shot to win the World Series right now so they aren't as concerned if Verlander stinks in 18 or 19. Also, they have lots of prospects. And no one else making $20M+. 

Upton makes much more sense for the Angels. 

Totally agreed, i definitely think they overpayed with an eye on actually winning a WS, which as you say is great for them, but beyond that i think youve pretty much nailed it.  If they dont win it, i think they will feel the impact of this one down the line. 

[Homebrewer]

All of the pitching that's coming back right now is almost like making trades...without giving up anything.

Heaney is really encouraging, and others (Skaggs, Richards) have a real chance at contributing. If those three arms can step in and crank it up this month, no telling what might happen.

[ukyah]

14 hours ago, DMVol said:

How in the hell are we in the WC hunt?  Color me confused....crazy..

contrary to this threads intentions, pitching.

[Docwaukee]

having a strong bullpen is the only thing that has consistently improved chances of winning in the playoffs.  

most other playoff myths have been debunked.  

The cost of Verlander, both in prospects and real money, was an unnecessary risk for this team.  I didn't like the idea of taking on 60 mil min for a guy entering 35 and 36 even without giving up prospects.  

I think having that front line starter certainly would have helped - especially for a 1 game playoff.  But the risk was just too much.  

[Lou]

4 hours ago, Homebrewer said:

All of the pitching that's coming back right now is almost like making trades...without giving up anything.

Heaney is really encouraging, and others (Skaggs, Richards) have a real chance at contributing. If those three arms can step in and crank it up this month, no telling what might happen.

Skaggs? 

[UndertheHalo]

We have 3/4 of the rotation a lot of us thought would be pretty good and Bridwell has been a nice discovery.  Given the injury situation I think we should be pretty happy with where our rotation is right now.  Good opportunity to see what we actually have in Richards, Heaney, and Skaggs.  Obviously 1 month isn't gonna tell that whole story but these are all big games and they are about as good an opportunity to evaluate as any.   Sure would be nice to have Ramirez and Shoemaker though. 

Edited September 3, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[JoJo26]

20 hours ago, Stradling said:

Also Verlander would have decimated our farm system, if the asking price was similar to what they got from Houston, and why wouldn't it be.

We have a farm system?

[Inside Pitch]

20 hours ago, tennischmp said:

That's great and all but in a 1 game playoff or a 5 game series, good pitching is much more important than good hitting. 

And getting to that one game?

OPS+

Houston 129
Baltimore 104
Minnesota 103
Cleveland 100
New York 100
Seattle 99
Texas 96
Boston 94
Angels 91

ERA+

Cleveland 132
Boston 123
New York 120
Angels 104
Texas 103
Houston 96
Minnesota 96
Seattle 95
Baltimore 90

Pitching does indeed win championships but playoff baseball isn't the same as 162 game baseball.  You don't have off-days every second day in the regular season, you can't go with a 3 or 4 man rotation like you can in the postseason.  You can't pitch everyone a couple innings over 162 games like you could in a one game play in.

Once the postseason starts it's a matter of getting hot..
 

[Inside Pitch]

19 hours ago, tennischmp said:

 I don't disagree the these were great trades and I am only talking about the affect on 2017.  IMO the chances of them winning the WS didn't dramatically improve. Making the playoffs? Sure they have a much better shot. Winning the WS? not so much. 

We can talk about this being a 5 year plan after we see what happens with Upton this off season. Right now it's a 30 day plan to me. 

Not making the playoffs at all but having a stud pitcher to throw in them worked out well after the Grienke deal.

[Lou]

22 hours ago, tennischmp said:

I get it, it helps make the playoffs. Except for me making the playoffs isn't enough. Losing 9-8 in the 1 game playoff is no better than not making the playoffs. You make these moves to win the WS, not just to make the playoffs, because there is a good chance both Upton and Phillips are just for this year. 

Making the playoffs is always better than not making the playoffs 

[Troll Daddy]

183 runs were scored yesterday in MLB

[Lou]

19 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

183 runs were scored yesterday in MLB

83 points were scored in the Missouri vs Missouri St football game yesterday . . . 

in the 1st half