That Simmons Trade is Looking Pretty Good

[Homebrewer]

I think Chuck and I were the only ones that thought Simmons could surprise everyone who was tearing out their hair when we traded young pitching for him, but if there is an unexpected bright spot in this organization, it's gotta be him.

" In 70 games from June 23 to Thursday — almost half a season — Simmons hit .333 with an .819 on-base-plus-slugging percentage, 72 points higher than his career .261 average and 146 points higher than his career .673 OPS."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/la-sp-angels-blue-jays-20160916-snap-story.html

Him and Trout and Kole, and even Jett.. are a nice foundation for Eppler build around over the next couple of seasons.

[eaterfan]

Lots of people liked the Simmons trade at the time. I liked it and most of the national media loved it for the Angels.

[Stradling]

However people on here hated the trade.  We even had people comparing him to Rey Ordonez and Stammets.  Sure it was our top two prospects but if those guys turn out to be a number 3 starter and a long reliever which is just as likely to happen as it is that Newcomb becomes a #2, then it was a good trade.  

Simmons is the best defensive SS this team has ever had, well at least the last 40 years.  

[Homebrewer]

6 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

Lots of people liked the Simmons trade at the time. I liked it and most of the national media loved it for the Angels.

Very few here did. Very, very few.

[Stradling]

Like with almost anything that happens on the Angels I probably took a wait and see approach.  I was critical of it being an overpay, but that was based on information I was given.  I would have liked to have kept Aybar and moved him to 2nd base.  

[DMVol]

He is an elite SS and his offense has been solid....but right now, I'd rather have the two young arms...and I felt that way in November before all the injuries.....just my opinion...

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Like with almost anything that happens on the Angels I probably took a wait and see approach.  I was critical of it being an overpay, but that was based on information I was given.  I would have liked to have kept Aybar and moved him to 2nd base.  

We could still try Aybar at 2nd in '17 

[Troutstanding]

I remember there being plenty of people who supported the trade on the forum. Plenty didn't, also. I hated it at first, loved it on second thought, and still love the trade.

[Homebrewer]

D aint sexy, but health permitting, he was going to anchor the infield for a long time. The fact that he has figured things out with the bat makes it a super solid move. Yeah, the Halo's had a ton of pitching go down, and that's tough to swallow, but you still need someone to prevent and score runs, and while Aybar was cute and all, he wasn't going to be the one to do much of those two things.

[Troutstanding]

Defense is just as sexy as offense to me. 

[Second Base]

I hated the trade because I felt we just traded a #2 and #3 starter for a light hitting defensive specialist when this team needed offense and pitching that fit Ellis and Newcomb's timeline (post Weaver-Wilson era).

From where I'm standing now it looks like Nuke will still be a mid rotation starter (ace on his good days, uselesson the others, like Ubaldo Jimenez) and Ellis will be more of a #4 starter. In return with got an elite defense SS that can hit for average.

Long run, I think it's a slight win for the Angels, unless the Braves end up flipping Nuke for someone like Jorge Soler, who ends up being a superstar, then it'll be a loss for us.

But yeah, right now looks pretty good.

[totdprods]

Neither would have really contributed to the MLB club this season, and would be questionable next season too, so even with the crazy amount of injuries I'm not sure they would have helped. Even Nate Smith was passed over until September.

[Troutstanding]

6 minutes ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

defensive specialist

An insult to Simmons. 

[DMVol]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Neither would have really contributed to the MLB club this season, and would be questionable next season too, so even with the crazy amount of injuries I'm not sure they would have helped. Even Nate Smith was passed over until September.

Simmons didn't "help" this year either.....no one player, including the best player in the game, saved this team from a dreadful season.  Newcomb and Ellis, together, might help more than Simmons in 2018....we'll see....not a black and white answer....I see both sides...

[CaliAngel]

I loved Aybar, but come on, Simmons is undoubtedly better at defense, and he's even hitting better than Aybar, who has almost become a secondary player.

All it took for me was to watch Simmons highlights at shortstop and I was immediately fine with the trade.

 

As for becoming a successful team I don't know what it's going to take. It seems like pitching and hitting are always running on different cylinders.

 

[Angelsjunky]

The problem is looking at it as love it or hate it. If I remember correctly, a few really loved it, a few really hated it, but most were somewhere in-between, feeling that acquiring Simmons was a good thing but trading away your two best prospects when you have the worst farm system in baseball wasn't so good, and it remained to be seen whether this would be good in the long run.

Furthermore, I also think the general view was that it would be good for the Angels for a year or two, but depending upon how Newcomb especially developed, could look bad in a couple years. So yeah, the trade looks good so far--but I think everyone knew it would after year one.

So yeah...I'm not buying your "Chuck and I were right, and everyone else was wrong" view, Homebrewer. Most felt ambivalent and expected the trade to look good for a year or two.

[Blarg]

50 minutes ago, Homebrewer said:

Very few here did. Very, very few.

Lou and I liked the trade and really,  that is all that matters. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

I think the general vibe from the board was pretty negative. I was fine with the trade at the time but became skeptical later when it proved to be our single impactful move of the offseason. On a player for player basis I think we gave up a marginal amount of upside for a sure thing.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

I loved getting Simmons! I didn't like giving up both Newcomb & Ellis! His defense was as advertised and the bat has come around if he can increase his obp in the next couple of seasons I will be very happy!

[Ohtaniland]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Like with almost anything that happens on the Angels I probably took a wait and see approach.  I was critical of it being an overpay, but that was based on information I was given.  I would have liked to have kept Aybar and moved him to 2nd base.  

Aybar sucked this season. Would've been better getting Howie back for one season. 

[Troll Daddy]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Lou and I liked the trade and really,  that is all that matters. 

That's for forgetting me, amigo

[eaterfan]

39 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I think the general vibe from the board was pretty negative. I was fine with the trade at the time but became skeptical later when it proved to be our single impactful move of the offseason. On a player for player basis I think we gave up a marginal amount of upside for a sure thing.

I'm not even sure we gave up much upside. I think the odds of Simmons gaining some power and becoming a 20 HR guy are just as good as Newcomb becoming a perennial all-star pitcher. If Simmons hits 15-20 HRs in a season he's an MVP candidate.

[tomsred]

28 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

That's for forgetting me, amigo

...and me, I liked it.  If you told me that Richards, Trop, Heaney, and Wilson would all go down I would have been scared to death though.  As Homebrewer said earlier, Simmons is a good foundation player for a number of years.  Actually he is also a lot of fun to watch in person, and one of the bigger reasons I still go to the games when possible.  He does a lot of little things that you can't see on TV to set up plays, etc..  I went to the game last Monday night, and when I found out he got scratched (hand injury) I was really bummed, so were several others around me.

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 minute ago, eaterfan said:

I'm not even sure we gave up much upside. I think the odds of Simmons gaining some power and becoming a 20 HR guy are just as good as Newcomb becoming a perennial all-star pitcher. If Simmons hits 15-20 HRs in a season he's an MVP candidate.

Newcomb still has top of the rotation stuff with limited miles on the arm. Simmons has been in the league 5 years now, and while I think he will improve as a hitter, he is not going to turn himself into the hitter Braves fans were dreaming on after his rookie season.

[Inside Pitch]

A lot of people overvalued Chris Ellis.   He looked great when compared to the stiffs in the Angels system, but had he been around in the Stoneman era he would have been lumped in with guys like Steven Shell as someone who had good stuff and could possibly become something.   Ellis' swinging strike rates were bad to mediocre when compared to the league averages -- and his contact rates where never any better than league average -- those are never good signs, worse still... his LD allowed rates were always below league average.   Pitching in IE, Arkansas and then Miss, masked some of his shortcomings ..  unfortunately AAA has exposed them.

Five years of control and premium defense was always a good get.  As always, defense is undervalued by most.