Brandon Marsh negotiations (Update: Marsh signed!)

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Keven, everything that has been explained to you seems to be going over you head. He's going to a second rate college baseball program that will be facing that level of competition. It is a tall pygmy league, not a resume builder. 

 

If anything it'll make his numbers look even that better. If you weren't a fanatic of the Angels and your were a friend of this kids and the Angels which I'm guessing are low balling the kid and his agent would you tell him to sign to be a minor leaguer or actually go to college get a degree and maybe improve his stock. He is an athlete athletes are competitive by nature if he thinks he can get better which I'm sure he is and he thinks he can be a first round pick and get a higher pay day up front don't you think he ought to do it. Who cares where he went to school people who are talented get signed and drafted. Khalil Mack end to Buffalo and ended up signing what 3rd? The Jaguars signed signed Blake Bortles 1st overall out of Central Florida is that even a school. Take off your rose colored glasses about whats best for the Angels. It is an 18 year old kid you crazy people, stop jumping on his balls about the Angels and realize he is 18 years old crazies. Maybe he wants more money or maybe he is immature which um he is 18 years old thats allowed, I can't believe people on a message board are trying to call him out for that, which makes sense, and maybe just maybe he wants to go to school. Also if he does sign great if not oh well good for him for picking school and trying to get into the 1st round.

[kevinb]

33 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Yes he can improve, but it's a tough hill to climb. He was already considered the 60th best player in the draft, and as a high school player the Angels drafted him knowing he has all the leverage. Going to university and reentering the draft in 3 years he will have considerably less leverage, so he'll need to have improved his positioning to get a similar offer. How much better can he realistically expect to get? How much more money can he expect to get? A lot can happen in three years, is it really worth it to risk it? 

Maybe and maybe not. Maybe there are other factors than just money in his life. I think harping on an 18 year old kid on what he does or doesn't do with his signing or not signing with the Angels is a little strange. 

[Inside Pitch]

18 hours ago, Lou said:

I'm guessing KSU being less than an hour away from his home town might have had something to do with his decision. 

and he was offered by bigger schools

KSU has in recent years been getting a rep for being a good baseball program -- more a case of the coaching being really good than anything else.    This happens at small schools a lot, some have had a lot of success getting guys drafted like Grand Canyon College in AZ and Chipola College in FL (a JC), while others haven't like Lewis and Clark in Oregon -- that program is in shambles now..   I know people are capping on Marsh, and I'm not trying to defend him but going to a school where the coaching staff is considered to be very good isn't the dumbest of moves.. a talented guy stands to benefit from quality coaching, even if he won't be facing top end competition.  But not taking 1 mil guaranteed when there are things in your medicals that are raising flags is pure idiocy...   Whoever his adviser is, they need to tell him all the cautionary tales of guys who didn't sign and saw their fortunes take a hit for the worse...  

A mil is a mil...  That buys a person a lot of security.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Yes he can improve, but it's a tough hill to climb. He was already considered the 60th best player in the draft, and as a high school player the Angels drafted him knowing he has all the leverage. Going to university and reentering the draft in 3 years he will have considerably less leverage, so he'll need to have improved his positioning to get a similar offer. How much better can he realistically expect to get? How much more money can he expect to get? A lot can happen in three years, is it really worth it to risk it? 

I think one of the things that has been mathed out in recent years is that getting into MLB systems sooner ends up adding more to a guy's lifetimes earnings that holding out for a bigger signing bonus or starting your clock at age 24 instead of age 21.   A 24  year old guy with three years of experience and thus arbitration behind him is in a much better place financially than the guy that is making his debut at age 24 and is still living off his signing bonus.

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

I think one of the things that has been mathed out in recent years is that getting into MLB systems sooner ends up adding more to a guy's lifetimes earnings that holding out for a bigger signing bonus or starting your clock at age 24 instead of age 21.   A 24  year old guy with three years of experience and thus arbitration behind him is in a much better place financially than the guy that is making his debut at age 24 and is still living off his signing bonus.

Very good point. It's hard to see him coming out ahead in the long run.

[ukyah]

2 hours ago, Kevinb said:

So your saying a 2nd round draft pick out of high school has no way to improve his draft stock? Ok then. Guess at 18 he is at his peak and will only get worse unless he signs with the Angels and then he can only get better? Confused by your convoluted and confusing talk. And how does it not make sense Mack came from a no name college as well so there's that. But don't worry bout it. Went right over your head 

yeah, it went right over my head. as did your classic straw man argument. 

the nfl draft in no way whatsoever parallels the realities of the mlb draft. if you don't know that, then you know nothing about this topic and further discussion is unwarranted.

ignoring your straw man argument, where you inferred that i said it's impossible for a 2nd rounder to improve his draft position. what i actually said is that it's very difficult to improve your draft stock from the 60th overall, especially when factoring in the level of competition at kennesaw state, which isn't going to inspire teams and also the fact that he'll be three years older, developmentally. 

he can only improve himself so many realistic positions. in all legitimate likelihood he'll be drafted somewhere around the same spot or significantly lower if anything goes wrong with his health or his performance over the next three years.

it's black and white. you either understand the facts of the matter or you don't.

[Lou]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

Keven, everything that has been explained to you seems to be going over you head. He's going to a second rate college baseball program that will be facing that level of competition. It is a tall pygmy league, not a resume builder. 

 

over the last two years, that 2nd rate program has had two players drafted in the first round.

the entire PAC 12 conference had 4 

[tdawg87]

4 > 2. Point disproven. 

[Lou]

4 hours ago, ukyah said:

lou's missing the point completely. what are the odds he improves his position from a mid 2nd round pick? he's going to put himself at risk for three years on a slim chance at modest improvement? bad thinking, if so.

no, I didn't miss the point at all 

you seemed to have a problem following what I was responding to.

hint: it had nothing to do with the likelihood Marsh improves his draft position. go back and try again. if you still need help, tdawg will be happy to help you out

[Lou]

10 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

4 > 2. Point disproven. 

rats, foiled again! 

[HBMike]

http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/inside-baseball-with-jon-heyman/yankee-intrigue-trade-gap-arod/

Los Angeles Angels

"Brandon Marsh, the second round pick, originally had a deal with the Angels and while there’s word some medical issue complicated things (some say it’s his back, but the principles won’t comment), the sides remain in talks. Angels GM Billy Eppler says the team is “hopeful” to do a deal with Marsh. And why not? He is said to be a five-tool outfielder, someone any team would want, much less the top-heavy Angels, who have two great outfielders for now. While Marsh was quoted at one point as saying, “I’m not signing,” folks aren’t sure where things stood at that juncture. Marsh does have options, as he could attend Kennesaw State, but baseball people say he has a bright future in pro baseball. If the Angels don’t land him, this will continue a star-crossed year for them (they lost five starting pitchers, which might be some sort of record) …"

 

[Chuck]

6 hours ago, Lou said:

I'm guessing KSU being less than an hour away from his home town might have had something to do with his decision. 

and he was offered by bigger schools

Money talks. 

[Chuck]

I know a bunch of people with 4 year degrees that are struggling. 

[Chuck]

Blarg is drunk.

[tdawg87]

Aybar could get an engineering degree at USC.

[Second Base]

3 hours ago, Kevinb said:

If anything it'll make his numbers look even that better. If you weren't a fanatic of the Angels and your were a friend of this kids and the Angels which I'm guessing are low balling the kid and his agent would you tell him to sign to be a minor leaguer or actually go to college get a degree and maybe improve his stock. He is an athlete athletes are competitive by nature if he thinks he can get better which I'm sure he is and he thinks he can be a first round pick and get a higher pay day up front don't you think he ought to do it. Who cares where he went to school people who are talented get signed and drafted. Khalil Mack end to Buffalo and ended up signing what 3rd? The Jaguars signed signed Blake Bortles 1st overall out of Central Florida is that even a school. Take off your rose colored glasses about whats best for the Angels. It is an 18 year old kid you crazy people, stop jumping on his balls about the Angels and realize he is 18 years old crazies. Maybe he wants more money or maybe he is immature which um he is 18 years old thats allowed, I can't believe people on a message board are trying to call him out for that, which makes sense, and maybe just maybe he wants to go to school. Also if he does sign great if not oh well good for him for picking school and trying to get into the 1st round.

Pretty much everything you said is wrong, and please use commas. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

On 7/2/2016 at 6:38 PM, Kevinb said:

If anything it'll make his numbers look even that better. If you weren't a fanatic of the Angels and your were a friend of this kids and the Angels which I'm guessing are low balling the kid and his agent would you tell him to sign to be a minor leaguer or actually go to college get a degree and maybe improve his stock. He is an athlete athletes are competitive by nature if he thinks he can get better which I'm sure he is and he thinks he can be a first round pick and get a higher pay day up front don't you think he ought to do it. Who cares where he went to school people who are talented get signed and drafted. Khalil Mack end to Buffalo and ended up signing what 3rd? The Jaguars signed signed Blake Bortles 1st overall out of Central Florida is that even a school. Take off your rose colored glasses about whats best for the Angels. It is an 18 year old kid you crazy people, stop jumping on his balls about the Angels and realize he is 18 years old crazies. Maybe he wants more money or maybe he is immature which um he is 18 years old thats allowed, I can't believe people on a message board are trying to call him out for that, which makes sense, and maybe just maybe he wants to go to school. Also if he does sign great if not oh well good for him for picking school and trying to get into the 1st round.

I wonder if Trout ever thinks, I could have gotten a college degree, instead I am going to have to get by with a few hundred million dollars, and being known as the best player in baseball.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

I can understand a player drafted in the 20th round deciding to go to college instead of signing to a $10,000 bonus.

The second round is worth $1,000,000+ and a chance to get big bucks 3 years earlier. A $1,000,000 is nothing to sneeze at even in today's economy.

[kevinb]

32 minutes ago, Ace_Shoemaker? said:

I wonder if Trout is ever thinks, I could have gotten a college degree, instead I am going to have to get by with a few hundred million dollars, and being known as the best player in baseball.

So this kid could be the next Trout then?

[kevinb]

Hey creepy old guys this kid is 18 years old bout you let him make his own decision instead of being fanatical nutswinging anything red. Once he becomes a professional you can obsess about his physical tools which I'm sure you can't wait for. But guys 18 years old and a high school senior. Kind of weird middle age men are obsessed with a teenager and whether he signs with their favorite team to help boost that pesky all important farm system rankings system. 

[Stradling]

20 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Hey creepy old guys this kid is 18 years old bout you let him make his own decision instead of being fanatical nutswinging anything red. Once he becomes a professional you can obsess about his physical tools which I'm sure you can't wait for. But guys 18 years old and a high school senior. Kind of weird middle age men are obsessed with a teenager and whether he signs with their favorite team to help boost that pesky all important farm system rankings system. 

Kevin if you don't want to see us discuss it go to a different thread. 

[kevinb]

50 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Kevin if you don't want to see us discuss it go to a different thread. 

Sounds less fun than trying to change how fans view their sports athletes. Especially how people view college and high school athletes in the general sense. 

[Billy_Ball]

1 hour ago, Kevinb said:

So this kid could be the next Trout then?

YOUR words.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Hey creepy old guys this kid is 18 years old bout you let him make his own decision instead of being fanatical nutswinging anything red. Once he becomes a professional you can obsess about his physical tools which I'm sure you can't wait for. But guys 18 years old and a high school senior. Kind of weird middle age men are obsessed with a teenager and whether he signs with their favorite team to help boost that pesky all important farm system rankings system. 

Pst..  yo...   The easiest way to spot when a person has lost an argument is to take notice of when they stop firing at the actual debate and start taking personal shots at those he is debating with.  

Considering I'm content with our draft whether or not this kid signs I'm not sure if Im a creeper or not, but I do know that the situation is one that deserves some discussion and that while you may feel the need to defend this kid's right to do whatever he wants, the reality is he's taking a pretty significant risk and there are far more examples of guys who didn't take a sure thing and ended up with less than those that said no, and reaped the benefits.  

Ever heard of Matt Harrington?  I wonder how that 11.50 an hour he's making at Costco compares to the 4 Mil he turned down once, and the 1.2 Mil he turned down the second time he was drafted?  Dude was drafted 5 different times with a worse showing each time....  Tommy Tanzer, Scott Boras.. they all gave him the wrong advice...  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Harrington

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Pst..  yo...   The easiest way to spot when a person has lost an argument is to take notice of when they stop firing at the actual debate and start taking personal shots at those he is debating with.  

Considering I'm content with our draft whether or not this kid signs I'm not sure if Im a creeper or not, but I do know that the situation is one that deserves some discussion and that while you may feel the need to defend this kid's right to do whatever he wants, the reality is he's taking a pretty significant risk and there are far more examples of guys who didn't take a sure thing and ended up with less than those that said no, and reaped the benefits.  

Ever heard of Matt Harrington?  I wonder how that 11.50 an hour he's making at Costco compares to the 4 Mil he turned down once, and the 1.2 Mil he turned down the second time he was drafted?  Dude was drafted 5 different times with a worse showing each time....  Tommy Tanzer, Scott Boras.. they all gave him the wrong advice...  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Harrington

damn, pretty crazy read on harrington. 

Kevinb, im late to this one. I agree its this kids prerogative, and if he wants to roll the dice and see if he can get better money later, more power to him. But i think what everyone else is arguing in jere (and i agree with), is that he was already drafter high. The odds (no guarantee, but likely) he doesnt draft higher/better money. Its also probably at least as likely he moves down in the draft next year or later with less money on the table.

I hope we sign him, but wont remember him if we dont.