Freese Signs With Pirates 1 Year 3 Million

[Docwaukee]

The Angels could have easily signed Freese to play 3b and move Escobar to 2b.  It would have been an obvious move but there are less than obvious reasons why they didn't.  

 

As much as I've had issue with the way this off season has gone, we are where we are and you have to respect the fact that Eppler has his plan and is sticking to it.   

 

Freese would potentially displace Choi or Gia.  Gia has looked very good so far.  He's been a totally different player defensively.  Looking very comfortable at thing he looked dreadful at last year.  Like turning two and his range to his glove side where he has to make the longer throw.  He's not going to be anything more than average, but his bat could be very good.  He was a beast offensively in the minors.  The dude can freakin hit man.  Like .290 avg and more walks than k's kinda hit.  The only thing holding him back to this point was his defense and if he is avg defensively then his bat is probably better than Freese.  He can also run.  It's a risk, yes, but so far it looks like one that could pay off.  

 

Choi is a baseball player.  He's more athletic than I expected.  He plays like he belongs.  Doesn't seem green at all.  He's also got good hands at 1b.  

 

Escobar was dreadful at 3b last year.  But with Epplers emphasis on defense and metrics, we have to trust that they have the solution to his defensive troubles.  Yes, it has to be executed, but if you think that you can make Gia avg defensively by crunching the numbers, then why couldn't you make Escobar an avg defensive 3bman?  

 

If you had to ask me to choose 2 of Choi, Gia or Freese right now, I think I would take the first two.  Not because I have any clue as to whom would be better, but because it's interesting and fun. 

 

You have to decide whether you are going to give Eppler a chance.  He's taking some chances and hopefully those chances turn into positive stories.  

[Stradling]

Freese got a good deal for the Pirates.

[totdprods]

I would have liked Freese back at that price, but I can see why the Angels passed. The FO isn't going to acknowledge it publicly but I think one of the top priorities for 2016 is assessment on how to proceed for '17-'20, not to win it all. Freese is alright and would have likely given the team a useful extra player, but I think they want to roster and payroll flexibility to determine what they have with Gia, Cowart, Kubitza, Choi, and even Cron.

You put Freese into the mix and you cut into playing time and opportunity for those players (all of whom we have under control for several years) and you do it for what? One more year of an aging, costlier player who brings marginal improvements to a team already riddled with question marks, eating into the service time and playing time for several younger players?

Not worth it unless we were making a bigger push in '16.

[eligrba]

 

Jeff Fletcher â€@JeffFletcherOCR  15m15 minutes ago

In case you're still wondering about David Freese, his camp says the Angels never made an offer. Freese signed for $3M with Pit last wk

 

 

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I thought Scioscia said that Freese was with the Angels to get the "big hits." 

 

Now what?

[Blarg]

Now Escobar with his career. 350 Obp gives Trout more opportunities to hit with a runner on base. The Angels are better off.

[Ohtaniland]

Freese got a good deal for the Pirates.

He could be sitting at home for $0

[Angel Oracle]

How much improved defensively will Escobar and Gia be?

That will be a decent part of how well this team plays in 2016.

[Lou]

I don't know. But what I do know is I wouldn't of traded Gott for Escobar.

you've been wanging too much. Gott wasn't very good and Escobar hit .314 with an ops of .790 last year.

only on AW is acquiring a .314 hitter for a guy like Gott looked at as a bad move

[Lou]

Just because you keep saying something, it doesn't make it any less ridiculous. I, and others, are saying he still would have been a good signing for the Angels this week. We don't have a legitimate MLB-level second baseman besides Escobar, so signing Freese for 3B and moving Escobar to 2B would have improved our team significantly.

how is Escobar a legitimate MLB-level 2B when he hasn't played the position since 2007 when he started there all of 20 games?

And remember, just because you keep saying something...

[Stradling]

Gott is 23 years old and under team control for 5+ more years. How were you not encouraged by what you saw from Gott last year?

Escobar is a rental who can't play defense. He's also 6.5 million dollars more expensive. He did have a good year offensively last year, but he over performed IMO. He will not have a BABIP of .347 again and I'm thinking his OBP will be around .320 -.330.

I'm thinking a 2016 WAR of 1.3-1.6, which is not worth giving up a young, electric reliever like Gott, who is under team control.

I think if given the chance, Cowart can provide you with a 1+ WAR with his defense alone.

And Gott has one pitch and in big moments struggled down the stretch. He could grow into being really good or he could be the next Frieri.

[Lou]

being under club control when you aren't very good doesn't mean much. Electric? Not even close.

[Angel Oracle]

Billy Koch also threw 100mph for the A'th in the early 2000s.

He had just one pitch though, and eventually the AL figured him out.

[halosfan1970]

Escobar being capable of "legitimate" MLB 2B defense is purely speculative since there is no history or data. Freese being a "poor" defensive 3B is contradicted by the available data. 

 

Lot's of truthiness on multiple topics in this thread.

[Inside Pitch]

What do you constitute as not very good? a 23 year old who throws almost 100 MPH with a 3.02 ERA and 3.74 FIP in his first year in the big leagues doesn't qualify?

 

Since you're asking -- why are you talking about ERA and FIP?  He's a reliever...   You say he's electric ... so how do you explain that that piss poor K/9 rate of 5.10 coupled with a BB/9 of 3.00.  Gott had negative pitch values on every pitch except the FB.   His Z rate was over 90.% and his overall contact rate on all pitches was over 86%....    He was the definition of hit-able...   

 

Gott's saving grace last year was his ability to induce GBs -- a heavy FB and strong GB rate are typically good things but you have to worry about a guy who's got one pitch and people don't miss it.

[Blarg]

How was Escobar a legitimate big league 3rd baseman last year if he had never played there before last year?

 

The Nationals picked Escoabr up after Anthony Rendon sprained his MCL in the first week of Spring Training. They specifically chose Escobar to learn the position because they must have felt he could make the change and they had zero other options in their farm system.

 

The Nationals already had a competent everyday player for 2nd base in Danny Espinoza and shortstop Ian Desmond. Rendon, when he returned mid season from the DL went back to alternating from 2nd to 3rd base. Something he has done since the minor leagues.

 

You should do some research before wangin.

Edited March 16, 2016 by notti

[Inside Pitch]

Dude, I'm not saying he's going to be the best future closer in baseball. I'm saying that he was good last year and that he has a lot of potential. He's only 23 years old and you're here acting like he's 33 and can't improve.

We traded Gott and his team control for a rental player who cannot play defense and will probably give us a 1.5 WAR. I think Cowart could've provided us that for the league minimum. That's all I'm saying. If you think it was a good trade, that's fine. We can disagree on that.

 

I'm not acting like anything I've not said he can't improve -- stop the BS...  I liked Gott, I even pointed out he induces GBs and can throw hard which are both very good things.  What I did do was point out ERA and FIP  aren't worth much when gauging RP performance and that the numbers that do matter don't paint the same rosy picture you have in your head.  You're overrating him because of radar gun readings.  

 

Also, if you're going to talk about value and use WAR -- consider you traded away RP that amounted to 0.1 WAR last year in 57 innings.      Mike Morin pitched 35 innings, was mostly bad, and yet he managed to put up a 0.5 WAR -- mostly because he can manufacture outs on his own.   Relievers that walk people and don't miss bats aren't very valuable.  So even at the 1.5 WAR you're estimating for Escobar, it may take a while to get a similar output from Gott.    Worse case scenario..  Escobar does okay, the team tanks, they trade him -- he's precisely the sort of player they can shed at the deadline and I'd hope they could do better than a 0.1 WAR RP if it came to that.

 

So as far as the trade goes -- I think they got about as much value out of a still unproven RP as they possibly could have.  Whether that makes it a good or bad trade...  I guess it's a matter of perspective. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[tomsred]

Dude, I'm not saying he's going to be the best future closer in baseball. I'm saying that he was good last year and that he has a lot of potential. He's only 23 years old and you're here acting like he's 33 and can't improve.

We traded Gott and his team control for a rental player who cannot play defense and will probably give us a 1.5 WAR. I think Cowart could've provided us that for the league minimum. That's all I'm saying. If you think it was a good trade, that's fine. We can disagree on that.

 

You are over simplifying the situation.  We traded Gott for something we we have a desperate need for - getting on base ahead of Trout and Pujols.  We have no lead off hitter better than Escobar.  The deficiencies in Escobar's defense can be somewhat mitigated by Simmons.  Gott and Cowart really haven't proved much yet, neither are a sure thing for any level of MLB performance.  If you want to gamble on Gott and Cowart being able to adequately perform, and weaken the near term, then fine you don't make that trade.  If you are trying to give the team a better chance of near term success, then you make the trade, or risk throwing away any chance of success Trout can bring.

[nate]

Lou is killing it in this thread.

 

Classic AW logic happening again, everyone can play every position!

 

We should move Weaver to second base!

[ten ocho recon scout]

Lou is killing it in this thread.

Classic AW logic happening again, everyone can play every position!

We should move Weaver to second base!

probably the only throws cron could catch, sadly.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Our outfield depth is obviously not a strength. Grichuk and bourjos for salas now. Ugh.

[halosfan1970]

Our outfield depth is obviously not a strength. Grichuk and bourjos for salas now. Ugh.

 

I'm honestly surprised it took 9 pages on a thread (remotely) related to Freese to get to "GRICHUK!"

[AngelsLakersFan]

Lou is killing it in this thread.

 

Classic AW logic happening again, everyone can play every position!

 

We should move Weaver to second base!

 

If Cron can play first, and Giavotella can play second then a former short stop could play second.

[LooneyPlatoons]

Do you guys think, heading into the offseason, that David Freese would have accepted or declined a $15mil qualifying offer?  I got the impression that he would have scored a 2-4 year deal from 10-15 mil a season.  But then his market never developed.  It also seems like the Angels never hand out qualifying offers.  I don't think Freese is worth $15 million a season either though but maybe his mindset going into the offseason was similar in thinking he would get decent money so maybe he would have declined a QO.  If that was the case, would anyone have signed him? I don't see any teams giving up a draft pick to sign someone to 1 year 3 million?  Probably could have returned to the Angels for even cheaper than that if it all went down similarly but with a declined qualifying offer.

[halosfan1970]

Do you guys think, heading into the offseason, that David Freese would have accepted or declined a $15mil qualifying offer?  I got the impression that he would have scored a 2-4 year deal from 10-15 mil a season.  But then his market never developed.  It also seems like the Angels never hand out qualifying offers.  I don't think Freese is worth $15 million a season either though but maybe his mindset going into the offseason was similar in thinking he would get decent money so maybe he would have declined a QO.  If that was the case, would anyone have signed him? I don't see any teams giving up a draft pick to sign someone to 1 year 3 million?  Probably could have returned to the Angels for even cheaper than that if it all went down similarly but with a declined qualifying offer.

 

He would have accepted a QO in a heartbeat. I like David Freese on a 1/$5m. Freese on a 1/$15.6m is horrifying.

[Lou]

What does it matter why they put him at third base? For whatever reason, it happened, and that's fine. That isn't my point.

Obviously, they were wrong based on his defensive statistics last year, and we didn't seem to care or take that into consideration when we traded for him.

My point is Escobar never played 3rd base before that year, and they put him there anyway. It didn't work. Now, even after we have data showing what he did, we do the same? Seems silly to me.

I will wang at my own leisure

Have you taken a look at Cowart's defensive abilities @ 3B?

What exactly did Escobar do to prove that "it didn't work?" Also, don't you think he'll improve now that he has a full year (and ST) playing 3B under his belt? (don't get excited, tdawg)