Is there any hope for Simmons' bat?

[ABC]

I agree with the sentiment of questioning whether Nuke would've better be spent on a different position. That said, Aybar is not "very good" on defense anymore. At best he's adequate and in decline (natural aging - nothing against him). Nor was he ever nearly as unbelievable as Simmons with the range, although his arm in early years was pretty close.

 

That's ridiculous.

[Stradling]

So the Angels bought high and sold low. Yikes.

Aybar's D is very good. Why not just extend him and trade Newcomb and Ellis for a 3B/2B or LF?

Bought high? Sold low? How bout we use common sense and understand one is entering their prime and the other is exiting his prime. This team used to struggle upgrading from good players to great players. We just got a great short stop.

[ABC]

You and common sense together? lol

[Lou]

So the Angels bought high and sold low. Yikes.

 

Aybar's D is very good. Why not just extend him and trade Newcomb and Ellis for a 3B/2B or LF?

Bought high and sold low?

Aybar's defense at this point isn't in the same stratosphere as Simmons' defense

[101halo]

That's ridiculous.

Thanks for your thorough disproving of the statement. You can disagree with defensive stats, but at least state that (because good luck finding one that still thinks he's above average for a SS). Eye test over 150+ games the last 2 years told me the same thing, but like your assertion is completely subjective.

[Lou]

and why would you want to extend Aybar when he's 33 yrs old?

Something tells me you haven't seen Simmons play much. To give you an idea, the Braves were insisting on either deGrom or Harvey from the Mets for him.

[Troll Daddy]

I heard that Aybar was looking for free agent money (well deserved btw) and not looking to give the Angels a hometown discount. It was a trade that was needed to be made for the future of the team.

This trade will only sting if Newcomb actually lives up to his projections. We already know Simmons will.

[Stradling]

I've been trying to come up with a defensive/offensive comparison. Would it be safe to say Simmons is better defensively than Aybar about to the degree that Mike Trout is better than Calhoun offensively?

[Troll Daddy]

I'll be honest ... I will go to about 15 more games next season just to watch Trout and Simmons.

I have a feeling attendance will be up next season.

[101halo]

I've been trying to come up with a defensive/offensive comparison. Would it be safe to say Simmons is better defensively than Aybar about to the degree that Mike Trout is better than Calhoun offensively?

That's actually really close to a perfect comparison if you are just referring to last year. It breaks down if you assume that Aybar's last year defensive dropoff was an aberration rather than just aging. I doubt that personally, though.

[laagamer]

I've been trying to come up with a defensive/offensive comparison. Would it be safe to say Simmons is better defensively than Aybar about to the degree that Mike Trout is better than Calhoun offensively?

I like that. Fair comparison because Eybar was always above average.

[Lou]

I like that. Fair comparison because Eybar was always above average.

operative word is "was"

[Lou]

That's ridiculous.

Not at all.

[bloodbrother]

So the Angels bought high and sold low. Yikes.

 

Aybar's D is very good. Why not just extend him and trade Newcomb and Ellis for a 3B/2B or LF?

 

Aybar's defense wasn't that good this past season and isn't in the same league as Simmons. No other SS is and no other defender may dominate their position more than Simmons does. Not sure what you mean by buying high and selling low. Angels just got a SS who is 5 years younger and under contract for 5 more years who will be more valuable than Aybar will be

Edited November 14, 2015 by bloodbrother

[ABC]

and why would you want to extend Aybar when he's 33 yrs old?

Something tells me you haven't seen Simmons play much. To give you an idea, the Braves were insisting on either deGrom or Harvey from the Mets for him.

 

Aybar looks like he will age well. And his defense is much better than most give him credit for. I don't get why some think Aybar is average or below defensively. It's ridiculous.

 

Even if you let Aybar go after next season, you address the SS need then and use Necomb and Ellis to improve at 2b now because it makes you better for 2016. Aybar and X at 2B is likely better than Andre and Gia, on both sides of the ball.

[arch stanton]

I'm not sure you and I watched the same Aybar last season. He looked to have Jeteresque range to me. He certainly didn't look like an asset in the field.

[NrM]

Any truth the writing that he nearly always hit in front of the pitcher?  

 

Doesn't matter. Simmons has always hit much better in front of the pitcher than in other spots of the order.

 

I guess one positive I can take away is that he has hit just as well(or poorly) during inter-league play as he has against NL teams.

262 PA .264/.302/.350 .651 OPS

[ABC]

I'm not sure you and I watched the same Aybar last season. He looked to have Jeteresque range to me. He certainly didn't look like an asset in the field.

 

Jeteresque is harsh. Maybe I'm the one who isn't seeing it correctly. It's possible Aybar played well when I watched but not so much the rest of the time. He did have a rough end to the season.

[Stradling]

Jeteresque is harsh. Maybe I'm the one who isn't seeing it correctly. It's possible Aybar played well when I watched but not so much the rest of the time. He did have a rough end to the season.

I'm not saying he was bad defensively just not what he was his first eight years. He has become about an average SS, nothing wrong with that.

[Stradling]

I have no problems with the opinion that we could have used our trade chips differently, but we can say that without discrediting just how big the gap is between Simmons and Aybar.

[OregonLAA]

What's funny is we got 5 years of Simmons for 1 year of Aybar. Granted we also gave up several years of the pitching too, but people act as if the years aren't a big deal. That's huge. Aybar most likely wasn't re-signing with us and have you seen the free agent shortstops for next year?

[Glen]

Simmons' bat = Pujols' feet.

So no, no hope.

[Second Base]

Scotty, its kinda too bad you are so down on this.  I know you love the prospects but cmon.  Alberto Callaspo is basically what he's been with the bat so far.

With Simmons glove, as tDawg said, "that'd be pretty damn amazing." If Simmons hits like Callaspo did, you're looking at a perennial 5 win player. Keep in mind, Callaspo managed to hit .288 and .252 with a solid OBP in his two full years here. Much like Simmons, Callaspo rarely ever struck out, but also didn't walk as much as he probably should, and he would typically hit 25 DB and 5-10 HR's per year.

Callaspo was never anything worth getting excited about at the plate. Neither will Simmons, that's not why we traded for him.

Would I have made that trade? Not on your life. It was almost every level of stupid you could reach. But it is done. The best thing I should do now is look on the bright side of things.

1. Simmons will get better with the bat, probably to the point where he gives us 3 years as a league average SS at the plate.

2. We're younger.

3. The pitching staff just improved.

4. It signifies the emphasis being placed on defense, which should be a precursor to necessary change in LF and 2B.

5. We just added the amount of air-time the Angels get on MLBN and ESPN. After Trout and Calhoun highlights, now we have Simmons.

[Troll Daddy]

This was a trade that needed to be made ... like it or not. As much as I love Aybar ... he already had one foot out the door and the Angels had no one to step in at a premium position. Now the team is set for the next five years with the best defensive player in the game.

'A bird in hand is worth two in the bush'

This trade was all about Simmons and Newcomb. One is the real thing the other is projected to be the real thing.

I've also read that Newcomb might be best suited for the bullpen. Even if Newcomb becomes the next Jon Lester ... I'm still happy with this trade.

Baseball is still about entertainment. I think Simmons will entertain the fans for the next five years ... much like he did in Atlanta.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Troll Daddy

[tomsred]

Like any fair trade there will always be pros and cons about this deal.  The last two posts have pointed out the positives for the Angels.  The negatives are that Simmons probably will never be an above average offensive player, and may even regress for some time as he switches leagues.  We also lose a lot of young (and inexpensive) pitching depth with Newcomb and Ellis departing.  We are also still several deals away from plugging our weaknesses from last year, and depending on how generous Arte is it will be a big climb to fill those gaps both financially and with the proper personnel.

 

My view only differs from Scotty's in that I would have done the deal because after this year SS would have also become a crisis point, more than pitching, and it's the most important defensive position on the field (with center field and catcher close behind).  I really believe that a good defensive team can make a big difference in terms of overall team W/L performance.  We did finish 10th out of the 15 AL teams last year in defensive performance, that's not good enough as far as I am concerned to go deep into the playoffs.  Now we need some real offense as well, and some real speed please.