Jerry Dipoto

[stormngt]

Note that I personally think the Angels should've gone through a down period after 2009 and allowed their farm a chance to rebuild. Not saying fire sale the team and start over but perhaps take chances on giving some youth more time and making more low-key moves for a year or two instead of losing draft picks to free agents and losing talent to trades. 

 

Trading for Dan Haren in 2010 was the right move at the wrong time. After Morales broke is leg that season, the team was not realistically in a position to go deep in the playoffs. As it turns out we didn't get to the playoffs at all in the time Haren was here. We added Pujols and Trout put up an unexpected historic rookie season and even that wasn't enough to get in.

 

We would be much better off with Corbin and Skaggs in the rotation today, and having a couple more young prospects waiting in the wings had we drafted pitchers with early picks instead of losing them in free agent deals. 

I agree, in hindsight, the angels should have begun a rebuilding phase in 2009.  The 2009 team was not a good team.  We had excellent pitching so there was the belief we could win now.  However, we had Rivera and Abreau in the outfield, we had Wood completely flop at 3b and had to go with Callaspo and we lost Moreno early in the season.  There just wasn't the fire power to win that year.

 

The Angels that year should have traded Abreau or at least benched him so he wouldn't trigger his option.  We should never have made the Haren move (in hindsight), and in hindsight probably should have kept Napoli as a DH/1b/catcher back up like he was with Texas and dumped Abreau

[stormngt]

That's not really the point.

 

Look, he did a lot of wonders for this team for about an 8-year stretch.

 

But that stretch ended in 2009. Now, this team seems to be emotionless and going thru the motions. They don't look prepared, and they are making a lot of boneheaded plays. Something different is needed, a new message or a new delivery.

Starting 2009 this team has been really flowed!

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Problem is, Arte IS part of the problem. Hiring Reagins and signing off on a 10 year contract for Scioscia set this franchise back a few years.

 

And all accounts are that he is responsible for the ten-year deal with Pujols.

[Jim]

The only thing these types of threads accomplish is to create bait for those who will come along later (May or June) with only the intention of rubbing a few noses in it.

At this point of the season, Dipoto needs not be in the discussion. 

[Jim]

I agree, in hindsight, the angels should have begun a rebuilding phase in 2009.  The 2009 team was not a good team.  We had excellent pitching so there was the belief we could win now.  However, we had Rivera and Abreau in the outfield, we had Wood completely flop at 3b and had to go with Callaspo and we lost Moreno early in the season.  There just wasn't the fire power to win that year.

 

The Angels that year should have traded Abreau or at least benched him so he wouldn't trigger his option.  We should never have made the Haren move (in hindsight), and in hindsight probably should have kept Napoli as a DH/1b/catcher back up like he was with Texas and dumped Abreau

It wasn't? When losing the American League Championship to the Yankees is your opinion of not having a good team, then get ready to be disappointed once again.

[AngelsLakersFan]

I agree, in hindsight, the angels should have begun a rebuilding phase in 2009.  The 2009 team was not a good team.  We had excellent pitching so there was the belief we could win now.  However, we had Rivera and Abreau in the outfield, we had Wood completely flop at 3b and had to go with Callaspo and we lost Moreno early in the season.  There just wasn't the fire power to win that year.

 

The Angels that year should have traded Abreau or at least benched him so he wouldn't trigger his option.  We should never have made the Haren move (in hindsight), and in hindsight probably should have kept Napoli as a DH/1b/catcher back up like he was with Texas and dumped Abreau

It's funny, just yesterday I was reading a post I made on facebook in 2010 saying the exact same thing. It's amazing how relevant that is today 3 years later... The names have changed but the idea remains the same.

[ukyah]

I don't know what you are talking about. I really think you should teach a class on how to be a fan. It really would be quite the learning experience for anyone who takes it.

 

Or at least do a blog or something.

 

 

hmmm, maybe at the learning annex or, better yet, the big A. i like where your head is at.

 

 

also, i pretty much agree with inside pitch. dipoto has done a lot for this organization, but we're not seeing the positive results. why that is? i'd have to say culture and coaching, both of which fall onto this coaching staff in it's entirety.

 

i think the vargas and hanson trades were good ones, in the sense they brought back what was absolutely realistic. kendrys was gone after this year and walden was an atomic bomb. i hated the blanton signing without equivocation. one year? horrendous. two years? un****ingbearable.

 

i, definitely, agree the pitching staff is on dipoto and it hasn't worked at all.

[Angels Never Die]

Not to be an "I told you so", but...

 

Also, he may be naturally (fat) slow, but it doesn't effect his ability to produce as much as Pujols' "plantar fasciitis" (in quotes because I suspect there's a larger underlying issue).

 

Yup. I thought Fielder was probably the wiser choice (not that I thought we were going to get either), but the debate kind of lost its importance the haze of Pujols signing.

[axalar]

Arte wanted Pujols over Fielder because it was better for marketing. They'd put up roughly the same production though Albert's knowingly wouldn't be as long lasted, but Albert would play to Moreno's reach for a bigger Hispanic audience and the "LA" market. That's that. It failed a little more than Arte probably wanted due to Albert's shit start and the failure of the team to do anything post-season wise. I still think that could change, though.

[axalar]

Also, wasn't the Hamilton signing pushed greatly by Arte? I seem to remember him visiting him in his home in Texas without Dipoto.

 

What's Dipoto to do when he starts the offeseason with a large chunk of dough to assemble a more quality team, then Arte decides to give him pennies to assemble it instead after signing Hamilton? You guys have to realize the Hamilton signing that Arte wanted totally handicapped Dipoto's options.

[Hoops McCann]

Also, wasn't the Hamilton signing pushed greatly by Arte? I seem to remember him visiting him in his home in Texas without Dipoto.

 

What's Dipoto to do when he starts the offeseason with a large chunk of dough to assemble a more quality team, then Arte decides to give him pennies to assemble it instead after signing Hamilton? You guys have to realize the Hamilton signing that Arte wanted totally handicapped Dipoto's options.

 

In my opinion, it is one of the most important parts of a GM's job to be able to manage the owner/ownership.  Especially with an owner who gets involved as much as Arte has recently.  Dipoto has failed in this resepct....if he thought the Hamilton signing was going to handcuff the team by ensuring less money to spend to shore up the rotation, bench and relievers, he needed to ensure that the point was not only made but followed. 

[Angel Oracle]

I still don't get why Arte signed some one who stunk for 2 out of 6 months in 2012.

Uhh Arte, you already had the new tv deal, you didn't need to sign OhForEighton.

Just think, you could have had a rotation of Weaver, Sanchez, Wilson, Vargas, and Hanson and still had close

to $10 million/season left over to invest in upgrading signing of foreign prospects.

The offense wouldn't be much different without OhForEighton.

[gotbeer]

The more I think of it, the more Dipoto was really behind the 8 ball, with little room to get out.  

 

2 assumptions here.  Moreno does not want to go over the luxury tax.  Moreno pushed/forced for Pujols and Hamilton.  And I think there are articles that hints at both.

 

If that is the case, the luxury tax is $178 million for 2013.  Hamilton counts for $25 million and Pujols counts for $24 million.  So that's $49 million, or $129 million that Dipoto has to work with.  

 

Looks good right?  Then you have the $18 million against the tax of Wells.  Luckily the Yanks will cover a bit of it.  So now Dipoto is down to about $115 million.

 

Weaver $17 million, Wilson $18 million, Kendrick $8 million, Aybar $9 million, Iannetta $5 million, Downs $5, Callaspo $4 takes up $66 million more.  So that's $49 million, with some other lower paid players to drop it to about $40 million left.

 

This offseason, we needed 3 starters, and 3 relievers.  While $45 million sounds like a lot.  If we excercised Haren and Santana, that would have been $13 and $15 million against the cap.  Leaving $12 million left for 1 starter and 3 relievers.  

 

So instead we went Vargas $8, Blanton $7.5, Hanson $4, Burnett $4, Madson $3.5.  For a total of $27 million.  

 

That should leave us around $13 millionish for the trade deadline, although we will be sellers instead of buyers if this crap continues.  

[Coachbulldog]

For me, the downward slide of the Angels organization began when the "top prospects" failed. There was a time on this board that everyone was excited about the likes of Brandon Wood, Dallas McPherson, Casey Kotchman, Jeff Mathis, etc... We'll never know what Stoneman/Reagins could have gotten in trades for them, but it is safe to say that at the height of their value each could have returned one above average MLB player. When ever the subject was brought up on this board about trading one of the Angels future Hall of Fame players the word "untouchable" was almost always used. One by one each of these players busted and the chain of events began: Prospect failures -> Free agent signings necessary -> Signing free agents loss of draft picks -> Farm system declines -> Free agent signings don't work out -> Organization in disarray. Sadly, it is going to be awhile before the Angels are faced with decisions on what to do with top prospects.

[mtangelsfan]

That is a very good point coach.  We have had holes at catcher, third and to a lesser extent ss for a while now.  It just seems like whatever we do, it ends up being the wrong decision. 

[gotbeer]

For me, the downward slide of the Angels organization began when the "top prospects" failed. There was a time on this board that everyone was excited about the likes of Brandon Wood, Dallas McPherson, Casey Kotchman, Jeff Mathis, etc... We'll never know what Stoneman/Reagins could have gotten in trades for them, but it is safe to say that at the height of their value each could have returned one above average MLB player. When ever the subject was brought up on this board about trading one of the Angels future Hall of Fame players the word "untouchable" was almost always used. One by one each of these players busted and the chain of events began: Prospect failures -> Free agent signings necessary -> Signing free agents loss of draft picks -> Farm system declines -> Free agent signings don't work out -> Organization in disarray. Sadly, it is going to be awhile before the Angels are faced with decisions on what to do with top prospects.

 

http://www.fishstripes.com/2013/4/23/4255952/miami-marlins-miguel-cabrera-2007-trade-detroit-tigers-los-angeles-angels-howie-kendrick

 

Starters Ervin Santana and Joe Saunders were in the Cabrera conversations. Pitcher Nick Adenhart and shortstop Brandon Woodwere high-end prospects coveted everywhere. Howie Kendrick was a rising star at second base. Kendrys Morales, two years removed from breaking out as a slugging first baseman, center fielder and leadoff man Reggie Willits (fifth in the 2007 AL Rookie of the Year Award voting) and catcher Jeff Mathis could have been part of a package.

 

Santana or Saunders (Don't think they would have given them Adenhart, but looking back at it, wish they did so he wouldn't have been in So Cal that day), Wood, Willits, Mathis.  Probably the hangup was the Angels didn't want to let go of Kendrick or Morales.  Back in 2007, both had stupid potential.  Especially Kendrick.  

[Coachbulldog]

http://www.fishstripes.com/2013/4/23/4255952/miami-marlins-miguel-cabrera-2007-trade-detroit-tigers-los-angeles-angels-howie-kendrick

 

 

Santana or Saunders (Don't think they would have given them Adenhart, but looking back at it, wish they did so he wouldn't have been in So Cal that day), Wood, Willits, Mathis.  Probably the hangup was the Angels didn't want to let go of Kendrick or Morales.  Back in 2007, both had stupid potential.  Especially Kendrick.  

 

Thanks for posting these links. Interesting to speculate on what might have been. At the time there weren't many Angels fans that wanted to give up prospects for Cabrera.

 

It is very sad to speculate what might have been if Adenhart hadn't been killed and I will always believe he would have been a solid #2-#3 starter.

[AzHaloFan]

YofT hit on it. Arte gets significant blame in all of this.

Arte to blame?! Really!? That's a clown statement Bro. Dude has bankrolled the glory years of this franchise and like it or not, the LA of A thing brought in a boatload of cash - directly and indirectly. The blame comes SOLEY on underperforming players. In that case, it CAN become the problem of the staff members whose JOB it is to make sure those players are preparred and able to make in game adjustments when needed. This team doesn't have a lack of talent, it has a lack of direction (other than the downward spiral) and a lack of an identity (other than being paid a quarter of a billion dollars worth of suckage).

[AZMike]

Arte to blame?! Really!? That's a clown statement Bro. Dude has bankrolled the glory years of this franchise and like it or not, the LA of A thing brought in a boatload of cash - directly and indirectly. The blame comes SOLEY on underperforming players. In that case, it CAN become the problem of the staff members whose JOB it is to make sure those players are preparred and able to make in game adjustments when needed. This team doesn't have a lack of talent, it has a lack of direction (other than the downward spiral) and a lack of an identity (other than being paid a quarter of a billion dollars worth of suckage).

 

Lack of direction is a direct result of the owner prioritizing billboard appeal over fundamentally sound baseball.

 

the point is pushing to make a big splash move practically every offseason in order to build up media attention. Hiring GMJ to play CF. Then Torii one year later. Effectively spending $28M/year for the CF position. Then pushing to get Crawford, getting outbid, then panicking to get Wells. Now Pujols and Hamilton. Most of those signings were not to fill positions of need but generated unnecssary log jams. If there weren't pressure from above to make a big move we might have done nothing a lot of those offseasons, built our farm up, and been a lot better off for it. 

 

Then there was Arte cutting off his nose to spite his face of not paying overslot in drafts in defence to the Selig, then supporting the new CBA against the club's best interest which makes it more difficult to draft amateur players, and which drives up the market price for free agents.