Israel vs. Palestine

[TobiasFunke]

The U.S.'s budget for Israel is only 3 billion!?

[TobiasFunke]

Here's a good article about Israel's GDP and our aid to them

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/18/some-of-israel-s-top-defenders-say-it-s-time-to-end-u-s-aid.html#

[floplag]

Flop.. you need to change your name to flip-flop...  What does Floplag mean anyway?!  Treehugging Liberal?

 

The Arab world has made it their end-game to end Israel.. along with imposing their religion on the rest of the world.  Your comments are purely emotional, and not grounded in reality.  Pure troll

 

oh good instults.. thats new and original, and im pretty sure about anyone here would tell you im far from a tree hugging liberal... tells me a lot about you though that you would assume me to be one.

 

The Arab world also knows the rest of us wont allow it, so you are either ignorant of the reality you reference or are the troll you accuse me of being.

 

For the record and since you asked so nicely, lol, my name is a poker term... id try to explain it to you but considering its a game of skill i'm sure you wouldn't understand.

[TobiasFunke]

Though I know what flop lag is, I always read your name as "flow plag" for some reason

Edited July 22, 2014 by TobiasFunke

[Adam]

At the end of the day, the Jewish people just want to be left alone. Most of them are secular atheists these days. If there are Jewish Religious extremists there aren't more than a few thousand of them. Meanwhile, the Muslim extremists, millions and millions of them, have a "people to demolish" list. The Jews just top it. The rest of us are on that list too. Other Muslims are on that list. 

 

Specifics of war and carnage aside, there is clearly a major difference in intent between the two sides. 

[Adam]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/16-year-old-gaza-terrorist-treated-in-israeli-hospital/

 

I could see Hamas doing the same. 

[floplag]

Though I know what flop lag is, I always read your name as "flow plag" for some reason

i dont even know what that means or if i should be insulted or not, lol

[Lhalo]

Of course they would be able to. They spend around 18 billion a year on the military while recieving only 3 billion from the US.

That doesn't mean the US should stop giving them any aid though.

 

Why should we give Israel aid?

[NrM]

Why should we give Israel aid?

Well they are probably pur greatest ally.

But if you don't support aid to israel then you shouldnt support aid to other countries.

[Lhalo]

Well they are probably pur greatest ally.

But if you don't support aid to israel then you shouldnt support aid to other countries.

 

That's great that they are our ally. Why should we give aid to them? Do we have to bribe them to be our friend? What would change if we don't give them aid? Would they not share intelligence with us?

 

I don't support aid to other countries either btw.

[Tank]

Why should we give Israel aid?

 

up front, let me say i'm just taking a guess at this.

 

my guess would be that back in '47 the US was a big supporter of the Jews having a homeland after the atrocities they suffered from the nazis. i would also guess that there have been a significant number of jewish business men with a lot of influence that have asked for help for the homeland. then there are the large numbers of jews in the entertainment industry. this may not come across as a lot of well organized thought but i hope you get the idea. there have been a lot of influential jews in the US and perhaps our country has felt a sense of loyalty to them to give help. i would imagine our heritage as a Christian nation and the desire to keep the holy land sights intact and available for people all over the world to visit is probably somewhere in the mix, also.

 

i hope that made sense.

[TobiasFunke]

i dont even know what that means or if i should be insulted or not, lol

It means nothing, it's just what my eyes make out whenever I read your user name

[TobiasFunke]

But if you don't support aid to israel then you shouldnt support aid to other countries.

Why? Is that how everything is, tit for tat?

 

Isn't it reasonable for someone to support aid to countries that are hurting financially and want to cut off aid to first world countries we give to?

[mtangelsfan]

Why should we give Israel aid?

 

Well for one, they allow us to have a military presence in the Middle East.  They do a lot of our intelligence work over there. 

 

don't get me wrong, Israel is not benign.  They take care of their own first and they are not above spying on the U.S. 

[mtangelsfan]

Why? Is that how everything is, tit for tat?

 

Isn't it reasonable for someone to support aid to countries that are hurting financially and want to cut off aid to first world countries we give to?

 

I would think what kind of government should be a large percentage of how it is decided.  For instance, if the government is corrupt, why would should they get aid?

[TobiasFunke]

I would think what kind of government should be a large percentage of how it is decided.  For instance, if the government is corrupt, why would should they get aid?

 

I agree with that. I'm more talking about that it IS possible to give aid to one country and not the next and not just Poozy's comment of if one doesn't support aid to Israel then they shouldn't support aid to other countries. That kind of mindset is just malarkey.

 

 

Side note, I just got dejavu right now. We probably all had this same conversation with the same talking points a couple of years back.

[NrM]

I would think what kind of government should be a large percentage of how it is decided. For instance, if the government is corrupt, why would should they get aid?

yea was going to say, having military bases overseas probably costs billions in the middle east alone. Israel being there is a great benefit for the US.

Of course weather or not you believe the US should be in other territories is another discussion in itself.

The US spent 14 billion last year just on foriegn military assistance aka training and providing weapons.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Poozy

[NrM]

I agree with that. I'm more talking about that it IS possible to give aid to one country and not the next and not just Poozy's comment of if one doesn't support aid to Israel then they shouldn't support aid to other countries. That kind of mindset is just malarkey.

 

 

Side note, I just got dejavu right now. We probably all had this same conversation with the same talking points a couple of years back.

and honestly I don't really mind either way. I support the US giving Israel aid, but wouldn't really care if they stopped.

Israel would be just fine.

 

My issue is with the obsession that people have over it. Why focus on something so trivial? 

Just like my issue with the media and people obsessing over the conflict.

 

I've already given my opinion on why I believe everyone loves to focus on this conflict though.

[Lhalo]

and honestly I don't really mind either way. I support the US giving Israel aid, but wouldn't really care if they stopped.

Israel would be just fine.

My issue is with the obsession that people have over it. Why focus on something so trivial?

Just like my issue with the media and people obsessing over the conflict.

I've already given my opinion on why I believe everyone loves to focus on this conflict though.

Billions of dollars in taxpayer money is not trivial to me.

[InsideThePark]

The problem is that Bin Laden changed his reason for hating the West all the time. Most of his letters condemning the US and the West have to do with the continued occupation of Saudi Arabia where Mecca and Medina are. It is only very much toward the end of his life that he even begins talking about Israel. Finally, even if the US stopped sending a dime to Israel most terrorists would still find a reason to hate the US. Be it Hollywood, tolerance of gays, treatment of women, intervening or not intervening in any other conflict in the Middle East.

Hate to beat a dead horse but that isn't true. He talked about Israel and the US's involvement back in 97. I wouldn't call that "very much towards the end of his life." I didn't dig too hard but it wouldn't surprise me if it goes back earlier than that.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/edicts.html

You're probably right that they would still hate us anyways but that's because the damage has already been done. Needless to say, they're not a forgiving bunch who can be reasoned with.

[arch stanton]

Hate to beat a dead horse but that isn't true. He talked about Israel and the US's involvement back in 97. I wouldn't call that "very much towards the end of his life." I didn't dig too hard but it wouldn't surprise me if it goes back earlier than that.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/edicts.html

You're probably right that they would still hate us anyways but that's because the damage has already been done. Needless to say, they're not a forgiving bunch who can be reasoned with.

A man like Bin Laden and a group like Al Qaeda will always have a target. If we weren't in Saudi and Israel didn't exist then it would be battling for the purity of Islam like the Taliban does. They live to fight for their brand of Islam and that's pretty much all they live for so of course the Zionist occupation of Palestine is on his agenda but the softer targets were the US and the women of Afghanistan so that's who has had to bear the brunt of their BS. Same reason the idiots in the US prefer to target gays and scared teenage girls at abortion clinics instead of street gangs, pedophile priests, biker rallies, etc.

[mtangelsfan]

A man like Bin Laden and a group like Al Qaeda will always have a target. If we weren't in Saudi and Israel didn't exist then it would be battling for the purity of Islam like the Taliban does. They live to fight for their brand of Islam and that's pretty much all they live for so of course the Zionist occupation of Palestine is on his agenda but the softer targets were the US and the women of Afghanistan so that's who has had to bear the brunt of their BS. Same reason the idiots in the US prefer to target gays and scared teenage girls at abortion clinics instead of street gangs, pedophile priests, biker rallies, etc.

 

This is an incredibly poor statement.  First and foremost, comparing blowing people up to carrying a sign is quite silly.  Second, the groups you refer to certainly do reach out to street gangs, biker rallies etc.  Third, the way that abortion is being fought is much different now than what you are referring to.

[arch stanton]

This is an incredibly poor statement.  First and foremost, comparing blowing people up to carrying a sign is quite silly.  Second, the groups you refer to certainly do reach out to street gangs, biker rallies etc.  Third, the way that abortion is being fought is much different now than what you are referring to.

I never compared those actions. I also never mentioned a particular group. Just my observation that both groups seem to have much stronger convictions toward the evils of those least likely to fight back. And I've seen firsthand what happens in front of the clinics and it ranks with the most cowardly things I've ever seen but that's for a different thread.

[mtangelsfan]

I never compared those actions. I also never mentioned a particular group. Just my observation that both groups seem to have much stronger convictions toward the evils of those least likely to fight back. And I've seen firsthand what happens in front of the clinics and it ranks with the most cowardly things I've ever seen but that's for a different thread.

 

You did compare the groups.  You left it out there and made the connection.  You also clearly have zero notion of what those groups' convictions are.  It might surprise you to find that the same group may be fighting abortion one day and serving at a rescue mission the next.  Or maybe the believe in the Bible but also go across the world to build a hospital in the Congo, or paint the dorms at an orphange in Cambodia.

[nate]

They make up for bullying and death threats by panting some houses in Cambodia.