Israel vs. Palestine

[NrM]

But the Israelis weren't in control of the area for thousands of years until it was handed to them. Everything else you brought up was the result of the aftermath. Not saying I agree with everything else that transpired.

So you don't want to talk about the history of Israel and why they would want to live there, or the aftermath of how the Israeli's acquired all that land to begin with?

 

What the **** is your point then?

 

 

Is it the Israeli's fault that they wanted a place to call their own after the Holocaust? 

Is it the Israeli's fault that Britain(who legally owned the land) and the UN decided to give them the territory? 

Edited July 22, 2014 by Poozy

[NrM]

Making them mad isn't the point. I couldn't care less how they feel either. But what I do care about is saving thousands of American lives and saving us trillions of dollars. Is supporting Israel really worth those side effects? I don't think it is.

As for your other point, how would you feel if you were kicked out of your home and then told you can live somewhere crappier?

 

lol

You fit perfectly in the conspiracy theorist category.

the JOOOz are why American's are dying and wasting trillions of dollars!!

 

 

 

do you not realize how crazy you sound?

Edited July 22, 2014 by Poozy

[mtangelsfan]

Making them mad isn't the point. I couldn't care less how they feel either. But what I do care about is saving thousands of American lives and saving us trillions of dollars. Is supporting Israel really worth those side effects? I don't think it is.

As for your other point, how would you feel if you were kicked out of your home and then told you can live somewhere crappier?

 

Maybe you should ask the jews that question.

[Tank]

But the Israelis weren't in control of the area for thousands of years until it was handed to them. Everything else you brought up was the result of the aftermath. Not saying I agree with everything else that transpired.

The Jews weren't in control of the area because they'd been scattered due to constant war and attacks from other countries.

The Jews called it the diaspora, iirc.

[NrM]

Making them mad isn't the point. I couldn't care less how they feel either. But what I do care about is saving thousands of American lives and saving us trillions of dollars. Is supporting Israel really worth those side effects? I don't think it is.

As for your other point, how would you feel if you were kicked out of your home and then told you can live somewhere crappier?

Right cause Jews have never had to endure such things.

 

Iraq

Under Iraqi nationalists, the Nazi propaganda began to infiltrate the country, as Nazi Germany was anxious to expand its influence in the Arab world. Dr. Fritz Grobba, who resided in Iraq since 1932, began to vigorously and systematically disseminate hateful propaganda against Jews.

 

In 1969, about 50 of the Jews who remained were executed; 11 were publicly executed after show trials and hundred thousand Iraqis marched past the bodies in a carnival-like atmosphere

 

Egypt

Foreign observers reported that members of Jewish families were taken hostage, apparently to insure that those forced to leave did not speak out against the Egyptian government. Some 25,000 Jews, almost half of the Jewish community left, mainly for Europe, the United States, South America and Israel, after being forced to sign declarations that they were leaving voluntarily, and agreed with the confiscation of their assets. Similar measures were enacted against British and French nationals in retaliation for the invasion. By 1957 the Jewish population of Egypt had fallen to 15,000.

 

Yemen

If one includes Aden, there were about 63,000 Jews in Yemen in 1948. Today, there are about 200 left. In 1947, rioters killed at least 80 Jews in Aden, a British colony in southern Yemen. In 1948 the new Zaydi Imam Ahmad bin Yahya unexpectedly allowed his Jewish subjects to leave Yemen, and tens of thousands poured into Aden. The Israeli government's Operation Magic Carpet evacuated around 44,000 Jews from Yemen to Israel in 1949 and 1950.^[145] Emigration continued until 1962, when the civil war in Yemenbroke out. A small community remained until 1976, though it has mostly immigrated from Yemen since.

 

Tunisa

 

In 1948, approximately 105,000 Jews lived in Tunisia.^[59] About 1,500 remain today, mostly in Djerba, Tunis, and Zarzis. Following Tunisia's independence from France in 1956, a number of anti-Jewish policies^{[citation needed]} led to emigration, of which half went to Israel and the other half to France. After attacks in 1967, Jewish emigration both to Israel and France accelerated. There were also attacks in 1982, 1985,^[60][61]and most recently in 2002 when a bombing in Djerba took 21 lives (most of them German tourists) near the local synagogue, a terrorist attack claimed by Al-Qaeda.

 

Algeria

Almost all Jews of Algeria left upon independence in 1962, particularly as "the Algerian Nationality Code of 1963 excluded non-Muslims from acquiring citizenship",^[56] allowing citizenship only to those Algerians who had Muslim paternal fathers and grandfathers.^[57] Algeria's 140,000 Jews, who had French citizenship since 1870 (briefly revoked by Vichy France in 1940) left mostly for France, although some went to Israel.

 

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

 

 

Why would the JOOz ever want a place to call their own?

They faked the Holocaust and now they're conducting genocide on the poor innocent Palestinians!

Edited July 22, 2014 by Poozy

[InsideThePark]

There were other places they could have called their own. And do you not remember the main reason why al Qaeda said they planned 9/11? They clearly stated at the very top of the list that it was because we support Israel.

Poozy, you're Jewish and/or Israeli right? I'm not saying that because you defend them but because I think you've shared that with us before. Judging from your reaction, I think it's safe to say that you're emotionally invested in the conflict, which is probably eliminating any chance for a calm discussion. Anyways I apologize if my comments offend you.

[NrM]

There were other places they could have called their own. And do you not remember the main reason why al Qaeda said they planned 9/11? They clearly stated at the very top of the list that it was because we support Israel.

Poozy, you're Jewish and/or Israeli right? I'm not saying that because you defend them but because I think you've shared that with us before. Judging from your reaction, I think it's safe to say that you're emotionally invested in the conflict, which is probably eliminating any chance for a calm discussion. Anyways I apologize if my comments offend you.

 

w/e.. the arguments both you and flop have made are based off of lies and inaccuracies, and when I call you guys out on them, you either ignore it or change the subject.

I don't have a problem with the other people critical of Israel in this thread.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Poozy

[NrM]

There were other places they could have called their own. And do you not remember the main reason why al Qaeda said they planned 9/11? They clearly stated at the very top of the list that it was because we support Israel.

Poozy, you're Jewish and/or Israeli right? I'm not saying that because you defend them but because I think you've shared that with us before. Judging from your reaction, I think it's safe to say that you're emotionally invested in the conflict, which is probably eliminating any chance for a calm discussion. Anyways I apologize if my comments offend you.

Also calling me out for being Jewish or Israeli is pretty low.

Everyone endlessly obsesses over the Israel/Palestinian conflict, but I shouldn't be allowed to have a take on it?

 

Hell there are plenty of American Jews that are very critical of Israel.

[InsideThePark]

Did I say you shouldn't have a take on it? I was just trying to figure out why you're fired up about this. Everyone else seems calm. I can't say I necessarily blame you nor can I say for certain that I wouldn't be amped up if I was as emotionally invested in the situation as you seem to be.

[TobiasFunke]

Jesus Christ poozy, just say "Jews" for the love of Yaweh.

[NrM]

Did I say you shouldn't have a take on it? I was just trying to figure out why you're fired up about this. Everyone else seems calm. I can't say I necessarily blame you nor can I say for certain that I wouldn't be amped up if I was as emotionally invested in the situation as you seem to be.

 

After reading over the comments, I realize I was coming off as pretty angry and defensive.

Sometimes I project my mood onto angelswin. Sorry bout that.

 

I still stand by everything I said, but I didn't have to resort to name calling.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Poozy

[LBHalos17]

Flop.. you need to change your name to flip-flop...  What does Floplag mean anyway?!  Treehugging Liberal?

 

The Arab world has made it their end-game to end Israel.. along with imposing their religion on the rest of the world.  Your comments are purely emotional, and not grounded in reality.  Pure troll

[LBHalos17]

By "people" I assume you mean Hamas. Those are good questions though, it's a difficult situation. I don't have the answers on how to bring peace between the two sides. The problem stems from the fact that they shouldn't be there to begin with. They were offered other land to reside in but nope, that wasn't good enough for them. They just had to have the Holy Land and displace millions from their homes. Now we're left with this never ending cycle between the two sides to which there will probably never be a fair solution to. What's not helping the matter is us donating money to Israel, a country that's not exactly struggling financially. We wouldn't be having all these issues with terrorism if we didn't support Israel... there would be no 9/11. If that's not reason enough to stop handing them funds then I don't know what it is.

Do you think there'd have been no 9/11 if we didn't support Israel?!  You have a seriously limited world-view..

[InsideThePark]

After reading over the comments, I realize I was coming off as pretty angry and defensive.

Sometimes I project my mood onto angelswin. Sorry bout that.

 

I still stand by everything I said, but I didn't have to resort to name calling.

No prob, Pooz. I think everyone's feelings on the matter are a little more intensified because of what's going on. I feel for all the civilians (plenty on the Israeli side as well) who get caught in the middle.

[Blarg]

They should move, they have plenty of choices.

[InsideThePark]

Do you think there'd have been no 9/11 if we didn't support Israel?!  You have a seriously limited world-view..

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6537.htm

Obviously I cringe as most would when reading this... but if you read it thoroughly, I think it pretty clearly states that our continued support of Israel is without question the top reason for their hostility towards us. There are other reasons as well but the main focus is on the dismantle of Palestine, its stated numerous times. I have very little doubt in my mind that we wouldn't be dealing with the extreme terrorism we've had to face if it wasn't for our full support of Israel.

[LBHalos17]

A letter from Bin Laden is supposed to carry weight in a reasonable conversation?!

 

These "Tangos" are the epitomy of walking contradictions.  It is in their bible to force their religion on EVERYONE.  They claim to hate Westernized "infidel" livestyle, then lap it up when they come over to conduct missions.

 

Hamas utilizes "human-shields" of women and children, then "wave" those bodies in front of cameras as crimes against humanity.

 

What is your solution to our "Israel" problem?

[nate]

If you think that there is any reasoning with people who proudly kill innocent women and children then you are beyond naive

[LBHalos17]

If you think that there is any reasoning with people who proudly kill innocent women and children then you are beyond naive

I don't understand which side you're on here, Nate.. please clarify

[InsideThePark]

A letter from Bin Laden is supposed to carry weight in a reasonable conversation?!

These "Tangos" are the epitomy of walking contradictions. It is in their bible to force their religion on EVERYONE. They claim to hate Westernized "infidel" livestyle, then lap it up when they come over to conduct missions.

Hamas utilizes "human-shields" of women and children, then "wave" those bodies in front of cameras as crimes against humanity.

What is your solution to our "Israel" problem?

It goes without saying that Bin Laden is about as evil as they come... al Qaeda (and other terrorist organizations) hatred towards Jews is extremely appalling. And as you pointed out, the hypocrisy in that letter is all over the place. But I don't have much doubt that the letter was sincere. What else would be the driving force for such a devastating attack? I don't believe that they would have had enough motive in their eyes.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't have the solution for their conflict. It's a big nasty mess with no end in sight.

[arch stanton]

I've spent the better part of the past 17 years in the middle east. I don't claim to be an expert but I can tell you that most of the Arabs I have talked to couldn't care less about Israel or Palestine. I've had members of the Saudi military tell me that their enemy is Iran. They hate Shia here way more than they hate Jews.

 

Sure, "Occupied Palestine" is still used as a rallying cry and there's quite a few rich Arabs who are happy to contribute to the cause but as a policy matter they have backed off on Israeli baiting because our politicians, whom they covet as crooked puppets when they need them, have asked them to. All the venom and hatred comes from Iran, who use it as a rallying cry to gain Arab support, and the Palestinians who watch their families get blown to bits and are told it's all Israel's fault. They look up to Hamas as they did the PLO before them as their guardians. If anyone really wanted to end this they would simply discredit Hamas in the eyes of their citizens. It really shouldn't be too hard.

 

As long as this stays one-sided with Israel protected by the Iron Shield then nobody who has the power to stop it has the incentive to stop it. Too much money to be made.

[nate]

I don't understand which side you're on here, Nate.. please clarify

 

I am referring to Hamas and Al Qaeda.

[eaterfan]

A letter from Bin Laden is supposed to carry weight in a reasonable conversation?!

 

These "Tangos" are the epitomy of walking contradictions.  It is in their bible to force their religion on EVERYONE.  They claim to hate Westernized "infidel" livestyle, then lap it up when they come over to conduct missions.

 

Hamas utilizes "human-shields" of women and children, then "wave" those bodies in front of cameras as crimes against humanity.

 

What is your solution to our "Israel" problem?

 

 

The problem is that Bin Laden changed his reason for hating the West all the time. Most of his letters condemning the US and the West have to do with the continued occupation of Saudi Arabia where Mecca and Medina are. It is only very much toward the end of his life that he even begins talking about Israel. Finally, even if the US stopped sending a dime to Israel most terrorists would still find a reason to hate the US. Be it Hollywood, tolerance of gays, treatment of women, intervening or not intervening in any other conflict in the Middle East.

[TobiasFunke]

I wonder if Israel could sustain their current standard of living and their military if we stopped giving them money.

[NrM]

I wonder if Israel could sustain their current standard of living and their military if we stopped giving them money.

Of course they would be able to. They spend around 18 billion a year on the military while recieving only 3 billion from the US.

That doesn't mean the US should stop giving them any aid though.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Poozy