Israel vs. Palestine

[floplag]

the israelis could always resort to shooting fernando rodney bows and arrows at them.

 

well played sir...

[mtangelsfan]

what are you talking about? We've killed our fair share of civilians, my bad "collateral damage"

 

That is my point.  We expect them to not retaliate, to not go after the terrorists.  Unlike us.

[Adam]

Both Islam and Judaism call for their people to control Jerusalem. The palestinians and other islamic dudes will never settle for less than complete annihilation of the Jews and Israel. Any agreements, land swaps, etc. are political moves at best and solve nothing. 

[mtangelsfan]

Exactly, put things in the proper context and one might be able to understand where both sides are coming from. Someone earlier in this thread said that hate only comes from one side? That's one of the silliest things I've read here. There's probably more hate on the Palestinian side but it's not as if we don't know where that hate originated from and how it continues to affect their standard of living. I imagine life as a refugee isn't all it's cracked up to be. Obviously that's not to say that the Palestinians haven't gone way too far at times but don't you think there's good reason why the rest of the world doesn't view a number of Israelis' military actions in a positive light? Convenient that we as their only ally are often times the only ones who are backing them.

 

How would you treat people that you knew for a fact wanted you dead?  It would be hard to trust them and give them free reign over things, no?

[nate]

If Mexico were constantly launching rockets at Orange County and sending suicide bombers to blow up cafes in Orange County, and declaring that they wanted to kill all Americans wouldn't you hate Mexicans?  Wouldn't you be apprehensive when ever you saw a Mexican?  Would you believe that the US would ever let Mexicans into their country every day?

 

That is exactly what Israel is doing.  Thousands of Palestinians cross the border into Israel every day to work in Jerusalem while their government and kin are launching rockets and strapping bombs onto their bodies and blowing up innocent people in cafes and movie theaters.

[Tank]

Guys, you seem to think im defending Hamas, i am 100% not.  No group or nation whose sole purpoise is  to eradicate another is acceptable.

Israel has EVERY right to defend itself, no question.

I just don't feel that invading Gaza is a defensive posture, its that simple. 

I get all the reasons, i know what Hamas is doing in all their cowardice, but lets call it what it is, an offensive to take out the threat. 

And can we not pretend that there are many people in Gaza who are not Hamas who are likely to be hurt or killed as part of this .

Thats it.. thats all im saying. 

 

that's a fair explanation. and without a doubt, the decent people in gaza are suffering from the bastardly actions of hamas. but as long as hamas is willing to do what they've been doing, i wouldn't expect the israelis to react any differently, and that's where we're in disagreement with each other. 

[floplag]

that's a fair explanation. and without a doubt, the decent people in gaza are suffering from the bastardly actions of hamas. but as long as hamas is willing to do what they've been doing, i wouldn't expect the israelis to react any differently, and that's where we're in disagreement with each other. 

Thats fine, but those people count too

There is no answer here, this crap has bene going on since 20+ years before i was even born and is not showing any signs of even slowing down.   With every peace comes some new splinter group to carry on the cause.

[Jay]

Israel wants peace.

Hamas wants war.

 

Kind of a big gap there.

[Lhalo]

If Mexico were constantly launching rockets at Orange County and sending suicide bombers to blow up cafes in Orange County, and declaring that they wanted to kill all Americans wouldn't you hate Mexicans?  Wouldn't you be apprehensive when ever you saw a Mexican?  Would you believe that the US would ever let Mexicans into their country every day?

 

That is exactly what Israel is doing.  Thousands of Palestinians cross the border into Israel every day to work in Jerusalem while their government and kin are launching rockets and strapping bombs onto their bodies and blowing up innocent people in cafes and movie theaters.

 

Israel has a right to defend itself but I'm sick of our government giving them billions of dollars. They can fend for themselves. 

[mtangelsfan]

Israel has a right to defend itself but I'm sick of our government giving them billions of dollars. They can fend for themselves. 

 

We give plenty of countries billions of dollars.  Why is Israel singled out?

[Lhalo]

We give plenty of countries billions of dollars.  Why is Israel singled out?

 

I'm all for cutting the other countries off as well. 

 

Edit: Why should we be the world's policeman when we are running huge deficits?

Edited July 21, 2014 by Lawrence

[mtangelsfan]

I'm all for cutting the other countries off as well. 

 

Edit: Why should we be the world's policeman when we are running huge deficits?

 

fine with it too, just curious why you singled out Israel.

[Lhalo]

fine with it too, just curious why you singled out Israel.

 

Only because this thread is about Israel.

[Blarg]

If this were about Chicago... we'd be up to our asses in gun control arguments instead of missile control.

[NrM]

We give plenty of countries billions of dollars.  Why is Israel singled out?

 

Becuase jews.

 

Why does the media and everyone obsess over the Israel/Palestine conflict when there are far more serious conflicts happening that get absolutely zero media attention.

Even if people that are critical of Israel are right and they are doing some ****ed up shit, why does this deserve more attention above everything else?

 

My personal theory is...

 

1. White Supremacists and Conspiracy theorists

Number one focus is on the JOOz. They blame them for absolutely everything you can think of. From controlling the banks and financial system to drinking the blood of babies. If you can think of something ****ed up happening in world, you can bet your ass the Jews/Zionists are the reason.

These people are incredibly sick and have serious influence. Make your way over to reddit.com/r/conspiracy and see how crazy these ****ers are.

 

2. Liberals.

They love the underdogs and the people that can't "defend" for themselves. Many jews are successful and hold powerful positions with lots of influence despite making up such a small percentage of the worlds population.

 

Combine these 2 groups together and...well.... you get the picture.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Poozy

[InsideThePark]

How would you treat people that you knew for a fact wanted you dead?  It would be hard to trust them and give them free reign over things, no?

By "people" I assume you mean Hamas. Those are good questions though, it's a difficult situation. I don't have the answers on how to bring peace between the two sides. The problem stems from the fact that they shouldn't be there to begin with. They were offered other land to reside in but nope, that wasn't good enough for them. They just had to have the Holy Land and displace millions from their homes. Now we're left with this never ending cycle between the two sides to which there will probably never be a fair solution to. What's not helping the matter is us donating money to Israel, a country that's not exactly struggling financially. We wouldn't be having all these issues with terrorism if we didn't support Israel... there would be no 9/11. If that's not reason enough to stop handing them funds then I don't know what it is.

[mtangelsfan]

By "people" I assume you mean Hamas. Those are good questions though, it's a difficult situation. I don't have the answers on how to bring peace between the two sides. The problem stems from the fact that they shouldn't be there to begin with. They were offered other land to reside in but nope, that wasn't good enough for them. They just had to have the Holy Land and displace millions from their homes. Now we're left with this never ending cycle between the two sides to which there will probably never be a fair solution to. What's not helping the matter is us donating money to Israel, a country that's not exactly struggling financially. We wouldn't be having all these issues with terrorism if we didn't support Israel... there would be no 9/11. If that's not reason enough to stop handing them funds then I don't know what it is.

 

I think that is a horrible reason honestly.  We don't do something because it makes the terrorists mad?  Also, I'm not sure I believe the idea that they wouldn't hate us even if we never supported Israel.  This talk of stopping to financially support Israel when there are plenty of other countries that we support that are not democratically voted in, that do not treat men and women equally, that are way more corrupt than Israel strikes a strange cord to me.

 

I'm fine with not sending money all over the world, but Israel would not even be close to number one on my list of places to stop sending it to.  By the way, the Palestinians had plenty of choices to move to as well but they have to have the Holy Land as well.  Crap, Jordan was created for them to live in.

[mtangelsfan]

and another thing........................

 

SHUT UP LEFTY!!!!!!

[NrM]

By "people" I assume you mean Hamas. Those are good questions though, it's a difficult situation. I don't have the answers on how to bring peace between the two sides. The problem stems from the fact that they shouldn't be there to begin with. They were offered other land to reside in but nope, that wasn't good enough for them. They just had to have the Holy Land and displace millions from their homes. Now we're left with this never ending cycle between the two sides to which there will probably never be a fair solution to. What's not helping the matter is us donating money to Israel, a country that's not exactly struggling financially. We wouldn't be having all these issues with terrorism if we didn't support Israel... there would be no 9/11. If that's not reason enough to stop handing them funds then I don't know what it is.

 

 

Words cannot explain the incredible amount of bullshit you are spewing.

[NrM]

and another thing........................

 

SHUT UP LEFTY!!!!!!

 

 

Is he seriously Lefty? That would explain a lot of things.

[mtangelsfan]

Not that lefty.  Its an inside joke.  He is a lefty, but not "the" lefty

[NrM]

By "people" I assume you mean Hamas. Those are good questions though, it's a difficult situation. I don't have the answers on how to bring peace between the two sides. The problem stems from the fact that they shouldn't be there to begin with. They were offered other land to reside in but nope, that wasn't good enough for them. They just had to have the Holy Land and displace millions from their homes. Now we're left with this never ending cycle between the two sides to which there will probably never be a fair solution to. What's not helping the matter is us donating money to Israel, a country that's not exactly struggling financially. We wouldn't be having all these issues with terrorism if we didn't support Israel... there would be no 9/11. If that's not reason enough to stop handing them funds then I don't know what it is.

 

Lets completely ignore the fact that Jews have lived in Israel predating thousands of years.

 

and have you heard about a little thing called the 6 day war? You know.. the one where Jordan, Syria and Egypt all came together to destroy Israel even though didn't have much territory at all? Well they got shit on while outnumbering Israel 10 to 1.

I'm sure you expected Israel to say, "all is good bros.. go back to doing what you do and we'll just stay put".

Of course not, they ****ing expanded their territory by taking the Sinai penninsula, the gaza strip and East Jerusalem.

 

Edited July 21, 2014 by Poozy

[InsideThePark]

I think that is a horrible reason honestly.  We don't do something because it makes the terrorists mad?  Also, I'm not sure I believe the idea that they wouldn't hate us even if we never supported Israel.  This talk of stopping to financially support Israel when there are plenty of other countries that we support that are not democratically voted in, that do not treat men and women equally, that are way more corrupt than Israel strikes a strange cord to me.

 

I'm fine with not sending money all over the world, but Israel would not even be close to number one on my list of places to stop sending it to.  By the way, the Palestinians had plenty of choices to move to as well but they have to have the Holy Land as well.  Crap, Jordan was created for them to live in.

Making them mad isn't the point. I couldn't care less how they feel either. But what I do care about is saving thousands of American lives and saving us trillions of dollars. Is supporting Israel really worth those side effects? I don't think it is.

As for your other point, how would you feel if you were kicked out of your home and then told you can live somewhere crappier?

[InsideThePark]

Lets completely ignore the fact that Jews have lived in Israel predating thousands of years.

 

and have you heard about a little thing called the 6 day war? You know.. the one where Jordan, Syria and Egypt all came together to destroy Israel even though didn't have much territory at all? Well they got shit on while outnumbering Israel 10 to 1.

I'm sure you expected Israel to say, "all is good bros.. go back to doing what you do and we'll just stay put".

Of course not, they ****ing expanded their territory by taking the Sinai penninsula, the gaza strip and East Jerusalem.

 [/size]

But the Israelis weren't in control of the area for thousands of years until it was handed to them. Everything else you brought up was the result of the aftermath. Not saying I agree with everything else that transpired.

[Jay]

Something tells me it won't end well for Israel.  Maybe not this year, maybe not this decade but eventually they'll be nuked.  Who knows what happens after that but Israel won't be the same that's for sure.  That's why everybody is so worried about Iran's nuclear program.  The Muslims/Arabs won't stop until Israel is gone.  We keep expecting the rest of the Middle East to say "ok we get it, Israel isn't going anywhere, we might as well get used to it" but it's not going to happen.