Israel vs. Palestine

[Blarg]

Heard an idea several years ago . . . Move all Israelis out of Israel and give them the state of Arizona (similar climate and geography). Give current Israel to the Palestinians. Would it create peace and stability in the region?

I know the Jews would never go for this, especially the idea go giving in and losing their historic sites, but it was an interesting idea to just throw out there.

There are far fewer Palestinians, move them to Murietta.

[TobiasFunke]

Hamas "the enemy" says Egyptian hashtag

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-28310504

[Spirit]

Israel has just announced the launch of a ground offensive in Gaza.

 

Wheeeeee...

[Lhalo]

Does this mean it still isn't safe to play soccer on the beach?

[eaterfan]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/unrwa-investigating-20-rockets-empty-gaza-school-palestinian

Hamas has "started" hiding rockets in schools. At least the school was empty when this was discovered.

[eaterfan]

The latest assault on Gaza is directly related to the trillion cubic feet of natural gas estimated to be just off the shore of Gaza.  Israel wants it all for themselves so they can become a major gas exporter in their region and eventually export into Asia.

 

The gas in Gaza has been known since 2009 and with Russia, China, and other BRICS nations beginning to move away from the US dollar, it should come as no surprise as to why Israel is threatening to invade Gaza.  The only thing standing in their way from becoming major gas exporters are the Palestinian people.

 

Please. This is just playing into the anti Semitic trope of Jews being money hungry. Israel happily gave back the land and oil fields in the Sinai Peninsula in exchange for peace with Egypt.

[floplag]

Israel has just announced the launch of a ground offensive in Gaza.

 

Wheeeeee...

 

On "offensive" is by definition not defending oneself, this is where Israel loses credibility to me.

Repelling an invasion to their lands.. ok.  knocking down rockets.. ok... invading Gaza or other pre-emptive strikes, not so much.  

Even if the intent is to stop the other side from invading you, until they actually invade.. you kinda really dont have that right.

[eaterfan]

floplag, on 17 Jul 2014 - 2:47 PM, said:

On "offensive" is by definition not defending oneself, this is where Israel loses credibility to me.

Repelling an invasion to their lands.. ok. knocking down rockets.. ok... invading Gaza or other pre-emptive strikes, not so much.

Even if the intent is to stop the other side from invading you, until they actually invade.. you kinda really dont have that right.

The US hasn't been invaded since the War of 1812.

England hasn't been invaded since the Norman conquest.

Why does Israel have to play by different rules than those two countries?

Also, Israel is about the size of New Jersey. They don't really have time to wait. And finally no country should be allowed to sit on its border and launch rockets with impunity.

Edited July 17, 2014 by eaterfan

[fan_since79]

11:16 P.M. Hamas makes an official statement: The ground operation in the Gaza Strip is a drastic, dangerous step, and the occupation will pay a heavy price for it.

 

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.605590

 

 

Let the endless war continue on to another chapter.

[nate]

Gaza launched a bunch of rockets at Israel this morning before they started the ground assault... but yeah, Israel is the bad guy.

[Don]

Is anybody else having problems with the site today? Posts are disappearing and I often can't see any text in a post with a quote.

[Tank]

me, too, don, but only with my iPad.

[Tank]

frequently, both israel and the palestinians say their actions are in response to previous events by the other side.

 

they spend so much time trying to even the scoreboard, but it'll never be evened up.

[eaterfan]

I did not suggest that, but both of them blowing each other up isnt solving anything either so...

Its hard to sympathize with ones loss of life when the other suffers the same tragedies.  Justified or not, they are both committing atrocities.

I fully support Israel's right to defend itself as i would any nation, but that does not include retaliatory strikes.. that's vengeance, not defense.

 

 

 

perpetrating an endless cycle is... and yes as someone else mentioned rockets arent exactly strategic strikes.

 

when does it end?  everyone claiming justification over the deaths.. at this point the whole thing isnt even about land or whether or not Isreal should exists... its about vengeance for the last strike.. and the last, and the one before that etc...

 

 

On "offensive" is by definition not defending oneself, this is where Israel loses credibility to me.

Repelling an invasion to their lands.. ok.  knocking down rockets.. ok... invading Gaza or other pre-emptive strikes, not so much.  

Even if the intent is to stop the other side from invading you, until they actually invade.. you kinda really dont have that right.

 

Flop, from what you have said Israel has a right to defend itself from rocket attacks but shouldn't shoot rockets across the border to do it because it isn't precise enough. But they can't send troops in there to be more precise and avoid civilian casualties while targeting Hamas fighters because Hamas hasn't invaded Israel. How do you suggest they stop these rocket attacks?

 

Is sending helicopters with snipers off the side so they can precisely target Hamas okay or should they not violate Gaza airspace until they invaded? Or would it cause too much collateral damage when their helicopters are shot down and crash?

 

But seriously, why is England allowed to invade Germany and the US invade Germany and Japan without being invaded in WWII and not lose credibility with you but Israel can't even shoot rockets into Gaza AT TERRORISTS and lose it? Why is the US allowed to carpet bomb incandescently Japan and Berlin and not lose credibility but targeted strikes from Israel aren't okay? This is even before we get into the murkier conflicts these countries have been in recently like the Faulkland Islands, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq (twice).

 

You seem to have an impossibly high standard for how Israel should behave compared to two other countries I assume you respect even though they failed to meet that standard. Not only that, but at least Israel is trying to meet the standard of stopping the attacks and those responsible while limiting civilian casualties. The other side is trying to maximize civilian casualties. One side is trying to do good and failing, one side is trying to do evil and failing.

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions and this conflict stinks. But I'd rather at least try to do good.

Edited July 17, 2014 by eaterfan

[HaloFan85]

Please. This is just playing into the anti Semitic trope of Jews being money hungry. Israel happily gave back the land and oil fields in the Sinai Peninsula in exchange for peace with Egypt.

It has nothing to do with portraying Jews as "money hungry".  Israel has been fighting for control over those gas fields ever since they were discovered 5-6 years ago and have already stated publicly that they feel Palestinians have no rights to them.  Israel wants, and for the US's sake (think world reserve currency), needs to gain control of them and become major gas exporters, and they've had no qualms about people knowing this.

[HaloMagic]

HaloFan, please provide links when you make claims like that.

[Lou]

Targeting and hitting are different things.

So Israel is the CJ Wilson of the middle east?

[nate]

HaloFan, please provide links when you make claims like that.

Find more info at www.jihadmotherf-r.com

[Lhalo]

Find more info at www.jihadmotherf-r.com

That site has great recipes. Try the martyr lemon pie.

It's to die for.

[floplag]

Gaza launched a bunch of rockets at Israel this morning before they started the ground assault... but yeah, Israel is the bad guy.

 

i for one never said they were the bad guy, only that they cant claim defense when on the attack.  This isnt a question of whose in the right or whose wrong.. its overkill. 

how is invading the area going to net them the guys that shot the rockets?  |

As ive said the whole thing is cowardice really to use rockets and such.. they have reduced taking life to a video game, its pathetic, but invading and killing a bunch of people that likely had nothing to do with those things, is not justified.

[floplag]

Flop, from what you have said Israel has a right to defend itself from rocket attacks but shouldn't shoot rockets across the border to do it because it isn't precise enough. But they can't send troops in there to be more precise and avoid civilian casualties while targeting Hamas fighters because Hamas hasn't invaded Israel. How do you suggest they stop these rocket attacks?

 

Is sending helicopters with snipers off the side so they can precisely target Hamas okay or should they not violate Gaza airspace until they invaded? Or would it cause too much collateral damage when their helicopters are shot down and crash?

 

But seriously, why is England allowed to invade Germany and the US invade Germany and Japan without being invaded in WWII and not lose credibility with you but Israel can't even shoot rockets into Gaza AT TERRORISTS and lose it? Why is the US allowed to carpet bomb incandescently Japan and Berlin and not lose credibility but targeted strikes from Israel aren't okay? This is even before we get into the murkier conflicts these countries have been in recently like the Faulkland Islands, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq (twice).

 

You seem to have an impossibly high standard for how Israel should behave compared to two other countries I assume you respect even though they failed to meet that standard. Not only that, but at least Israel is trying to meet the standard of stopping the attacks and those responsible while limiting civilian casualties. The other side is trying to maximize civilian casualties. One side is trying to do good and failing, one side is trying to do evil and failing.

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions and this conflict stinks. But I'd rather at least try to do good.

 

im sorry but your comparison s are not valid.  we did not pre-emptively invade Japan for example, they hit us first.  

Do i have a high standard for Israel, yes, i do.  But no different than i would hold America or any other nation that claims to be in the right or be justified.

Killing innocents, regardless of intent, is not and should not be acceptable.  When we miss with a bomb and hit a church, is that ok regardless of the intent?

It is a difficult situation.. Israel is in a tough place, and as i have said ha EVERY right to defend itself.  However, going on the attack is not that, not when they have no real idea who or what the target it.

They can be reached by ICBMs or other weapons from Iran, Iraq, Turkey or further.. would it be ok for them to invade their ?

 

[Jay]

It has nothing to do with portraying Jews as "money hungry".  Israel has been fighting for control over those gas fields ever since they were discovered 5-6 years ago and have already stated publicly that they feel Palestinians have no rights to them.  Israel wants, and for the US's sake (think world reserve currency), needs to gain control of them and become major gas exporters, and they've had no qualms about people knowing this.

 

There's a shred of truth in this rolled up in a giant blanket of anti-zionist conspiracy.

[arch stanton]

When the soldiers refuse to differentiate themselves from the civilians who's really at fault when the wrong people get killed?

Edited July 18, 2014 by arch stanton

[Tank]

im sorry but your comparison s are not valid.  we did not pre-emptively invade Japan for example, they hit us first.  

Do i have a high standard for Israel, yes, i do.  But no different than i would hold America or any other nation that claims to be in the right or be justified.

Killing innocents, regardless of intent, is not and should not be acceptable.  When we miss with a bomb and hit a church, is that ok regardless of the intent?

It is a difficult situation.. Israel is in a tough place, and as i have said ha EVERY right to defend itself.  However, going on the attack is not that, not when they have no real idea who or what the target it.

They can be reached by ICBMs or other weapons from Iran, Iraq, Turkey or further.. would it be ok for them to invade their ?

Isn't it Israel's intent during this invasion to target known Hamas places/people and destroy the tunnels they've been using to come into Israel and attack? I'm perfectly okay with that. It's not like they're targeting busses and night clubs, like the Palestinians frequently do.

[eaterfan]

im sorry but your comparison s are not valid.  we did not pre-emptively invade Japan for example, they hit us first.  

Do i have a high standard for Israel, yes, i do.  But no different than i would hold America or any other nation that claims to be in the right or be justified.

Killing innocents, regardless of intent, is not and should not be acceptable.  When we miss with a bomb and hit a church, is that ok regardless of the intent?

It is a difficult situation.. Israel is in a tough place, and as i have said ha EVERY right to defend itself.  However, going on the attack is not that, not when they have no real idea who or what the target it.

They can be reached by ICBMs or other weapons from Iran, Iraq, Turkey or further.. would it be ok for them to invade their ?

You said "until they actually invade you it isn't okay to invade them". Japan never invaded the US and Germany never even attacked the US before we declared war in them.

Btw, if bombing is your definition of attacking, then Hamas started this by launching rockets into Israel.

And you point out over kill but the rockets haven't stopped. Until they do Hamas us still fighting.

You never addressed the US carpet bombing of Dresden which killed more than 25,000.