What to do about the bullpen?

[Docwaukee]

Honest question.  Any thoughts?

 

They can't keep trotting Salas and Jepsen out there.  I am not overly confident in Kohn even though he has more potential. 

 

Do you bring up Rasmus, Lyon, Carson or Herrera?  Bring back Maronde?

 

Do you make a trade? 

 

Especially with DDLR throwing 88mph tonight.  He seems broken.  He faced one batter and they got someone up.  They knew he wasn't right and were hoping he could retire a batter. 

 

Burnett is probably done.  Moran is done. 

 

So out of Moran, DDLR, Burnett, Kohn, Jepsen, Maronde and Salas, only two haven't been dreadful.  You've got to start throwing different shit against the wall instead of trying to see if the same one stick. 

 

 

[Docwaukee]

BTW, I am pretty disappointed that Dipoto has put the team in this position once again. 

[rageous]

Shoemaker needs to go as well.

He is absolute garbage.

[Halo4life714]

Why can't we just bring up a guy like Morin or Bedrosian or Berg? All 3 of these guys have more potential than Salas or Jepsen.

[Docwaukee]

Shoemaker needs to go as well.

He is absolute garbage.

meh.  he's fine for what he is.  A mid to high 4's era swing man that will give you about what he did tonight.  A run allowed every couple of innings.  They aren't asking him to man the 7th inning like they have been Salas and Jepsen. 

[Docwaukee]

Why can't we just bring up a guy like Morin or Bedrosian or Berg? All 3 of these guys have more potential than Salas or Jepsen.

Bedrosian looked good this spring.  Morin looked like a deer in headlights. 

[Fontana Halo]

DFA Jepsen and Salas. Recall Maronde and Lyon. Maybe Alvarez or Roth.

[arch stanton]

Sodh seems to like giving them all a full inning. I think I would like to see him play match up more in the 6th and 7th. I'd also like to see a quicker hook for a starter in the 7th.

[jshep]

Nuke it.

[Mark68]

Time to end the Jepsen Experiment. At some point shorter than, say, 12 years, you have to realize that what you have is what you have.

Not sure if Salas has any options left, but if he does, time to use one. Send him down to SLC. Let's bring Bedrosian & Berg up and see what they can do.

 

It's ok to occasionally let Smith get more than three outs. The world will not end if that happens.

[ten ocho recon scout]

The DDLR news is upsetting to put it lightly...

[SigBaby]

Serious question: what's the status of Burnett? We need him badly. Also I thought Sosh said we wouldn't go with a long man in the pen; I'm not a fan of Shoemaker. 

 

Our bullpen should be:

 

Frieri

Smith

Kohn

Rasmus

De La Rosa

Jepsen

Maronde

[Fontana Halo]

Bedrosian is still in A. That's a huge jump. I'd bring up Lyon before him just for the experience factor.

[bloodbrother]

Honestly, the only real issues with the pen are Salas/Jepsen and Scioscia's usage of both of them. DDLR may be another issue because of his injury and the fact he was topping out at 89 MPH tonight, but they absolutely need to find better options than Salas/Jepsen already

 

neither should be in the pen first of all, and neither should be used in high leverage situations. They need to replace these 2

 

1. Burnett returns - that removes one of them

2. Dipoto makes another savvy trade like the Frieri one to net this team another good reliever

3. Call somebody up from the minors. RJ Alvarez may not be ready but he'd be the #1 guy for me stuff wise. Get that in the pen

 

 

Kohn is showing signs of life his last few outings and Shoemaker is basically the Jerome Williams of the pen, which is fine. He's not great but he's the long reliever guy who comes in when a starter sucks ass and needs to throw a few innings or when they run out of other relievers late in extra innings.

Edited April 13, 2014 by bloodbrother

[Erstad Grit]

I got destroyed on this board for suggesting krod during the offseason and he is killing it right now.

[bloodbrother]

Matt Welch ‏@mleewelch 3h

Kevin Jepsen's career ERA+s: 107, 89, 101, 51, 127, 84, and now 25 with downward momentum. 7 seasons for a reliever this mediocre? Why?

 

Matt Welch ‏@mleewelch 3h

Lowest career ERA+ of Angel relievers with 150+ IP: Kevin Jepsen 90, Andy Hassler & Lloyd Allen 96, Joe Grahe 97. You cut bad relievers.

 

 

I don't get why this team continues to trot this dude out there. Quit spinning the wheels and make a change. This dude has been a staple and probably the posterboy of the downturn this bullpen has taken over the past several years from being elite. Enough of the same old shit

Edited April 13, 2014 by bloodbrother

[rafibomb]

We gotta hope the three-headed monster keeps putting up strong numbers to force the Angels hands:
 

So far..

 

Morin (AA)

5.0 IP  6 SO  0.00 ERA  0.60 WHIP  

Alvarez (AA)

3.1 IP  6 SO  0.00 ERA  0.90 WHIP

Bedrosian (A+)

4.2 IP  12 SO 0.00 ERA 0.71 WHIP

 

I don't know why Bedrosian was sent to High-A. He had a good showing at the AFL and followed it with a strong Spring Training.

 

Also another idea, what about Brandon Sisk? He was the pitcher we received for Ervin Santana who missed all last year with Tommy John. With Burnett being Burnett and Moran on the DL, we could really use him as the lefty in the pen. He has done nothing but pitch exceptionally well in the minors and it looks like the injury hasn't affected him. (Though a small sample size post-Tommy John injury)

 

Sisk (AA)

3.0 IP  5 SO  0.00 ERA  0.00 WHIP

Edited April 13, 2014 by rafibomb

[Docwaukee]

I got destroyed on this board for suggesting krod during the offseason and he is killing it right now.

I was all for bringing krod back.  I actually think quite a few of us were.  I felt like we were one really good pen arm short going into the season and I thought DDLR and Burnett were going to play a big role.  Moran came out of nowhere and then he was suddenly gone.  So unless DDLR and Burnett make a miraculous recovery, we are two short still. 

 

We definitely need a lefty back.  Having Jepsen face 3 lefties in a row was stupid.  I can stomach Maronde giving up a run or two vs. lefties.  I can't with Jepsen.  At this point, I would bring back Maronde and call up Rasmus or Lyon to replace Jep and Salas.  At the very least.  I would like to see them make a trade though. 

[bloodbrother]

We gotta hope the three-headed monster keeps putting up strong numbers to force the Angels hands:

 

So far..

 

Morin (AA)

5.0 IP  6 SO  0.00 ERA  0.60 WHIP  

Alvarez (AA)

3.1 IP  6 SO  0.00 ERA  0.90 WHIP

Bedrosian (A+)

4.2 IP  12 SO 0.00 ERA 0.71 WHIP

 

I don't know why Bedrosian was sent to High-A. He had a good showing at the AFL and followed it with a strong Spring Training.

 

Also another idea, what about Brandon Sisk? He was the pitcher we received for Ervin Santana who missed all last year with Tommy John. With Burnett being Burnett and Moran on the DL, we could really use him as the lefty in the pen. He has done nothing but pitch exceptionally well in the minors and it looks like the injury hasn't affected him. (Though a small sample size post-Tommy John injury)

 

Sisk (AA)

3.0 IP  5 SO  0.00 ERA  0.00 WHIP

 

 

Really hoping one of those 3 guys are up at some point. I just want them to try something else. Jepsen has been a mainstay for years in this pen and it's ridiculous

[Docwaukee]

We gotta hope the three-headed monster keeps putting up strong numbers to force the Angels hands:

 

So far..

 

Morin (AA)

5.0 IP  6 SO  0.00 ERA  0.60 WHIP  

Alvarez (AA)

3.1 IP  6 SO  0.00 ERA  0.90 WHIP

Bedrosian (A+)

4.2 IP  12 SO 0.00 ERA 0.71 WHIP

 

I don't know why Bedrosian was sent to High-A. He had a good showing at the AFL and followed it with a strong Spring Training.

 

Also another idea, what about Brandon Sisk? He was the pitcher we received for Ervin Santana who missed all last year with Tommy John. With Burnett being Burnett and Moran on the DL, we could really use him as the lefty in the pen. He has done nothing but pitch exceptionally well in the minors and it looks like the injury hasn't affected him. (Though a small sample size post-Tommy John injury)

 

Sisk (AA)

3.0 IP  5 SO  0.00 ERA  0.00 WHIP

nice pull.  I forgot about Sisk. 

 

also, I know it will make AO happy, but give Berg a shot.  If he sucks, get rid of him. 

 

Bedrosian has been sill so far.  He's faced 17 batters, k'd 12 of them, given up 1h and 2bb.  3 of the 17 batters he's faced have actually hit the ball.  Move the dude up already. 

[mancini79]

This is a management piece. Most teams have a suspect bullpen since they are mostly failed starters trying to find a minor role. But tonight's game is a prime example of a mismanaged pen. Weaver did a good job getting into the 7th with a 1 run lead. Joe Smith was best candidate to get the final out in the 7th. Afterall, he would have pitched the 8th anyways with the lead. Then Frieri to close it out. Instead Sosh goes with the coldest reliever in a crucial part of the game. Then when the team finally made it to extra innings, Ernesto pitches a flawless 10th inning. Then Smith only gave up 1 hit (with 3 ks) in the 11th. That's it....2 innings for the 2 best relievers on the team. Sosh had already used 4 relievers before putting Ernesto and Smith out there. So why limit them to only 1 inning each? When Shoemaker started the 12th, he was the last reliever left. When Matt gave up the game deciding HR, he was at 40 pitches facing his 8th batter. That's on Sosh for needing to keep Matt out there.

[Docwaukee]

I would start by keeping a starter in who had only given up 3 hits instead of bringing in a pitcher worse than Jepsen to blow the game for him.

Also, hey, how about bringing in one of your "good" relievers when you are behind instead of being so friggen stubborn that you have to stick to you OCD plan of "crappy guys when behind, decent guys when tied or ahead"? Had Salad and Jeepy not f'ed the score up, Ibanez' bomb woulda won the game.

to me, this is as much of an issue with what Dipoto has done to construct the pen as it is with MS.  Even though I totally and wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying, it's like taking your 1 year old's diaper off and being surprised when they shit on the floor.  The most successful teams in the MS era have had deep bullpens where the 5th best guy was good enough to get outs in those situations.  Joe Smith can't throw 100 innings this year.  Get another god damn Joe Smith so they can both throw 50. 

 

I know it's anti-saber to spend on bullpens, but look what it's done so far.  Krod is going to make 3.2mil this year.  That's a drop in the bucket for a big market team. 

[Inside Pitch]

We gotta hope the three-headed monster keeps putting up strong numbers to force the Angels hands:

 

So far..

 

Morin (AA)

5.0 IP  6 SO  0.00 ERA  0.60 WHIP  

Alvarez (AA)

3.1 IP  6 SO  0.00 ERA  0.90 WHIP

Bedrosian (A+)

4.2 IP  12 SO 0.00 ERA 0.71 WHIP

 

I don't know why Bedrosian was sent to High-A. He had a good showing at the AFL and followed it with a strong Spring Training.

 

Also another idea, what about Brandon Sisk? He was the pitcher we received for Ervin Santana who missed all last year with Tommy John. With Burnett being Burnett and Moran on the DL, we could really use him as the lefty in the pen. He has done nothing but pitch exceptionally well in the minors and it looks like the injury hasn't affected him. (Though a small sample size post-Tommy John injury)

 

Sisk (AA)

3.0 IP  5 SO  0.00 ERA  0.00 WHIP

This is where we mine...   We will either find gold, or be left wanting.

[Inside Pitch]

 

I know it's anti-saber to spend on bullpens, but look what it's done so far.  Krod is going to make 3.2mil this year.  That's a drop in the bucket for a big market team. 

 

And yet the Red Sox and A's both known for their saber tendencies have spent resources and $$$ on acquiring bullpens.

IMO, the notion that you do not spend money on a pen is somewhat outdated -- I'd still try to limit relievers to shorter deals but a great pen can nullify other weaknesses and in some cases an opposing team's strengths.  The Angels teams that defied the odds and beat their expected win loss records were all noted for turning games into a 7 inning affair -- if they had a lead after 7 the game was as good as done and if they were behind they tended to keep games close.  People mistook those team's ability to come back for some innate ability or a will/desire to win -- the reality is those bullpens gave the offense a chance where other team's pens behaved likes ours currently does and let us back into games.  

 

Others teams seemed to take notice, they built their staffs accordingly...  meanwhile the Angels amazingly went away from what had been their bread and butter.  Closers may in fact be overrated, but a great pen is anything but

 

The Angels need to go back to scouring the minors for failed or flawed starters that could be turned into RPs....  .

Edited April 13, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[mp170.6]

I really despise pulling starters middle of the inning, even when they get into trouble.  I have far greater confidence in the starter getting himself out of trouble at this point...