Bourjos a stop gap in STL ?

[fatkook]

This guys thinks so....

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/st-louis-cardinals-39-39-clutch-39-improvements-201600559--mlb.html

 

 

 

[Jim]

The Cardinals have done well with their moves so far. 

[Coachbulldog]

As much as I hate the Cardinals, have to give them credit for solid player evaluation. 

 

But in the archaic sport of baseball, a sport that has been fighting technology and trying to quantify attributes like "grit" and "heart" and "clutch" for decades, kudos to the Cardinals and general manager John Mozeliak for realizing that the team's offense last season was less clutch and more of a fluke.

[Jeff Fletcher]

I was told the cardinals didn't view Bourjos as an everyday player, which is why they wouldn't trade Freese for him straight up.

[Scott34]

So they decided not only to deal Bourjos but just "toss in" our best OF prospect (who ZiPS thinks will have a 1.4 WAR season THIS YEAR).  Oliver puts him at 2.2 WAR.

[Brent Maguire]

I was told the cardinals didn't view Bourjos as an everyday player, which is why they wouldn't trade Freese for him straight up.

Interesting. 

 

If the Cardinals shared a similar viewpoint as other teams, then maybe Freese was the best the Angels could get for Bourjos.

[xboom28x]

Well, Bourjos hasn't been an every day player since 2011 so...

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

Not surprised. I don't know why anyone expected more for Bourjos. He has shown to be a bit fragile and at times has looked lost at the plate. When he was healthy this past season he looked fine, but he couldn't stay healthy. I don't know if he will be able to get healthy, either

[Blarg]

So they decided not only to deal Bourjos but just "toss in" our best OF prospect (who ZiPS thinks will have a 1.4 WAR season THIS YEAR).  Oliver puts him at 2.2 WAR.

 

Our best prospect wasn't even ranked in the top 150 nationally so, yeah we gave them a spare part. You need to get over it.

[Troll Daddy]

Our best prospect wasn't even ranked in the top 150 nationally so, yeah we gave them a spare part. You need to get over it.

Yea we're over the trade but to view him as a spare part is laughable.

I like the trade... Just not crazy about throwing in part parts.

[Thomas]

While it sounds like Taveras COULD play CF, doesn't sound like that he is by any means a lock to play there. I'm sure the Cards are hoping that Bourjos blossoms enough at the plate to bump Taveras to right. However if he doesn't the Cards certainly have plans B, C, and God knows how many more letters ready just in case.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1841917-st-louis-cardinals-center-field-future-could-be-oscar-taveras

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/bytes-oscar-taveras-and-the-cards-improved-bench/article_f1896d8b-e571-50b6-b915-ec4f464eeeed.html

[Chuck]

I was told the cardinals didn't view Bourjos as an everyday player, which is why they wouldn't trade Freese for him straight up.

 

Yep. Heard the same thing and that Dipoto was limited in what he could get for P-Bo.

 

Getting Freese for Bourjos in my mind was a GREAT deal considering.

[Scott34]

Our best prospect wasn't even ranked in the top 150 nationally so, yeah we gave them a spare part. You need to get over it.

 

If you think 1-2 win 22-year-old players grow on trees then be my guest.  We gave up a good piece.

[Stradling]

Let me know when Grichuk becomes a 1-2 WAR player. Apparently a computer projects him to be that. I wonder if that is the same computer that picked us to make it to the World Series the last couple years.

[OregonLAA]

Ya and we never got that pitching we need!

[AngelsLakersFan]

I think we all get it. It was a massive overpay because it's easy to knock on Bourjos' health and the way 2013 ended for him. He was a terrible trading chip, and while I'm sure a lot of teams were interested in him they were all looking to get a good deal. The Cardinals are perhaps the best run franchise in baseball, they don't make moves unless they are winning them on the value end. We had to give up the two best players in the deal in order to make our on-the-field team a little better. DiPoto was desperate.

 

They have a ton of great players and Bourjos is now plan A in centerfield, but give his injury history they are operating under the assumption that he can't play every day. If he can't maybe Grichuk (Im sure he isn't plan B, or C though) steps in... It's better to assume the worst and be prepared for it than it is to expect the best and not be ready when it doesn't happen.

 

At this point it's best we all wait and see how well Freese plays here. If he has a 3 WAR season I'll say the trade worked out all right for us, no matter how Bourjos does.

[Scott34]

Let me know when Grichuk becomes a 1-2 WAR player. Apparently a computer projects him to be that. I wonder if that is the same computer that picked us to make it to the World Series the last couple years.

 

Hahahaha.

[Scott34]

I think we all get it. It was a massive overpay because it's easy to knock on Bourjos' health and the way 2013 ended for him. He was a terrible trading chip, and while I'm sure a lot of teams were interested in him they were all looking to get a good deal. The Cardinals are perhaps the best run franchise in baseball, they don't make moves unless they are winning them on the value end. We had to give up the two best players in the deal in order to make our on-the-field team a little better. DiPoto was desperate.

 

They have a ton of great players and Bourjos is now plan A in centerfield, but give his injury history they are operating under the assumption that he can't play every day. If he can't maybe Grichuk (Im sure he isn't plan B, or C though) steps in... It's better to assume the worst and be prepared for it than it is to expect the best and not be ready when it doesn't happen.

 

At this point it's best we all wait and see how well Freese plays here. If he has a 3 WAR season I'll say the trade worked out all right for us, no matter how Bourjos does.

 

Yep.  That would be great.  But do you know how many times that has happened in Freese's career?

 

He'll be 31.

[Docwaukee]

Bourjos has pretty limited value if he's not playing CF. 

 

Mike Trout is the Angels CFer. 

 

Even if the Halos traded Trumbo and Bourjos hadn't been traded, the Halos want Mike Trout in CF full time with no switching back and forth and I think he wants to be there. 

 

So that's your starting point.  Your options are:

1. stash him on the bench in case of injury to Trout. 

2. trade him for prospects

3. trade him for an everyday major league player if you can get one. 

 

in other words, if you can get some sort of upgrade to the farm or everyday club you do it because he just wasn't going to play everyday for the halos and playing everyday would be the only way to improve his value.  So his value was going nowhere with the halos and you had to try and get something for him.

 

they got an everyday player that had a down year relative to the previous but is capable of providing 3 WAR or so.  Certainly, Freese has a much better chance of doing this than anyone else on the roster.  The fact that they threw in Grichuk sucks.  

[KevinStockerIsGod]

Everyone can have an opinion on this matter, and Bourjos' value was on the low end since he hasn't been healthy or hasn't had a starting position since 2011.  However, with our roster, at the time of the trade, he was a bench player.  When you are able to upgrade another position on the field, bringing stability to a position that has been in flux since 2009, there is a benefit there.  While there is definitely more potential in Bourjos and prospect potential in Grichuk, you have a roster that needs to win now and right now adding Freese is more valuable to this team.

 

If we weren't able to make a move for young controllable pitching like we did in the Trumbo trade, I'd feel the offseason would have been incomplete.  In terms of the long view of the offseason, Dipoto has upgraded the areas we set out to address, and we may still get more. 

[ukyah]

you don't have to trade young players, even if no one wants to give you good value for them. the pbj trade was unsound thinking. on the other hand, the trumbo trade was very sound.

[KevinStockerIsGod]

I realize this is not one single move, but if both trades merged and looked like this...

 

Angels trade Mark Trumbo, Peter Bourjos, and Randall Grichuk for David Freese, Tyler Skaggs, Hector Santiago, and Fernando Salas

 

...would you have been satisfied?  I think the end result is the same, we used our tradeable assets for areas of need. 

[SoWhat]

Let me know when Grichuk becomes a 1-2 WAR player. Apparently a computer projects him to be that. I wonder if that is the same computer that picked us to make it to the World Series the last couple years.

Lol seriously

Just because a computer projects him to be a 1-2 WAR player doesn't mean it's a lock.

[Tyler]

I realize this is not one single move, but if both trades merged and looked like this...

 

Angels trade Mark Trumbo, Peter Bourjos, and Randall Grichuk for David Freese, Tyler Skaggs, Hector Santiago, and Fernando Salas

 

...would you have been satisfied?  I think the end result is the same, we used our tradeable assets for areas of need. 

 

Dipoto definitely saved his own ass with the Trumbo trade.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Everyone talks about Peter Bourjos' WAR but it's a little misleading with the Angels. First of all, his value is almost entirely on defense as a CF. But with the Angels who is "replacement" if Bourjos isn't in center?

Mike Trout!

So when you put Bourjos in the lineup you're improving CF by a little and improving LF by a lot. So let's say Bourjos was great defensive LF. How valuable would it be to put his bat and glove in LF? You don't sacrifice defense for offense in left.

Kole Calhoun probably has a better bat and he's cheaper, plus it allows Trout and Hamilton to play the positions they are most comfortable at.

So if Bourjos is the Angels fourth OF, his value isn't going higher. Only lower. As for Grichuk, being the Angels best outfield prospect is different than being a good prospect. He's about 10th with the Cards.