If Trumbo is traded for SP, C.J. Cron a possible replacement

[VariousCrap]

I'm hoping he takes a hometown discount and defers most of his money to the back half of his contract to help out the Halos against the tax this year.

 

 

 

I hope so too.  I've been in the sign Garza camp since the offseason began.  Then trade Trumbo for a SP and watch this team really turn it around in 2014.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Jim B

[Chuck]

That won't do anything for the tax. The tax threshold goes by AAV of the contracts.

 

Oh, well then I stand corrected. Damn!

[floplag]

Because Trumbo isn't as good as the "30 HRs/100 RBIs" thing would suggest.

 

If you can get a #3 type starter with some team control for Trumbo, do it. Especially given the monetary constraints the Angels are believed to be contending with.

 

that depends on the number 3 doesnt it?   if were talking about a 1.3+ whip and ERA over 5 that darn sure isnt worth it now is it?

 

and if the 30/100 thing isnt a good as it suggests then again, why would it get us anything of value in return?  it isnt like thye grow on trees and everyone has them

 

look like i said i get it, we need pitching, but we need something of value, not just a warm body because its what we could get.. didnt work so well last year.  if we are going to give up Trumbo it should be for something more than a solid 3-4, thats all im saying.. it should be a legit 2-3 type guy

 

Everything everyone is saying about Cron and Shuck is true, but lets not forget Trumbo can also spell at 1B and the OF so... they are still similar parts in that regard. but they wont put up his power numbers or even close.  other numbers might be better... but i feel like we have enough empty 275+ type guys  its just my opinion

[Angelsjunky]

I think its the most likely solution...for the second half. I wouldn't be suprised to see Cron start the year in AAA or even AA again, and then Iannetta and Conger platoon at C/DH, with a cheap backup defensive catcher signed. If and when Cron looks ready, bring him up. I'm just not ready to hand him the job, no matter what his Arizona stats were; his minor league numbers went down substantially each year, which is a trajectory that usually indicates a player won't make it in the big leagues as a regular.

 

I'm still hopeful that Cron can be a decent player, but he just doesn't ready for the Show yet. If he slows down too much then Zach Borenstein will surpass him.

[YouthofToday]

I doubt Cron will be anything more than a platoon DH option that should only start against LH pitching.

If we enter the year with him in the roster the FO failed.

[Chuck]

I doubt Cron will be anything more than a platoon DH option that should only start against LH pitching.

If we enter the year with him in the roster the FO failed.

 

Disagree

 

People said the same thing about Trumbo. Cron was an established hitter in College, Trumbo learned how to hit through the minor leagues.

[James]

Cron most likely is not ready to step into that roll on Opening Day. If they trade Trumbo it needs to be a good trade for the Angels. That means a cost controllable pitcher who is a very solid #3 and a prospect to help out the farm. 

 

So far the offseason has brought a minor improvement to the pen and a better offensive lineup. If you take away Trumbo and add a Vargas type pitcher in a trade the team has improved very little as the addition of Freese is negated by the loss of Trumbo. 

 

If they somehow got a Garza in addition to the trade of Trumbo, the team would be much more complete but not so sure they can afford that. 

[Angelsjunky]

Cron most likely is not ready to step into that roll on Opening Day. If they trade Trumbo it needs to be a good trade for the Angels. That means a cost controllable pitcher who is a very solid #3 and a prospect to help out the farm. 

 

You over-estimate Trumbo's value. They might get a #3 starter, but the Angels would probably be the team sending a prospect along with Trumbo, not the other way around.

 

I see Trumbo's value as:

 

Trumbo + good prospect = #3 starter 30 or younger

Trumbo = older/expensive #3 starter, or younger borderline #3-4 starter with some upside

Trumbo = #4 starter + marginal prospect

Trumbo = very good but not elite prospect

[Chuck]

You over-estimate Trumbo's value. They might get a #3 starter, but the Angels would probably be the team sending a prospect along with Trumbo, not the other way around.

 

I see Trumbo's value as:

 

Trumbo + good prospect = #3 starter 30 or younger

Trumbo = older/expensive #3 starter, or younger borderline #3-4 starter with some upside

Trumbo = #4 starter + marginal prospect

Trumbo = very good but not elite prospect

 

AJ, what you value Trumbo and opposing GM's are two different things. Some GM's look at the bottom line, not the peaks and valleys, or just at OBP.

 

Strictly a matter of opinion.

[James]

You over-estimate Trumbo's value. They might get a #3 starter, but the Angels would probably be the team sending a prospect along with Trumbo, not the other way around.

 

I see Trumbo's value as:

 

Trumbo + good prospect = #3 starter 30 or younger

Trumbo = older/expensive #3 starter, or younger borderline #3-4 starter with some upside

Trumbo = #4 starter + marginal prospect

Trumbo = very good but not elite prospect

And if that is what the true value that is being offered for him they should go a different route as the team nor organizational depth would not be improved. The truth is that neither you nor I know his value. My statement was saying what the FO should demand in order to move him, if that isnt realistic they should not move him. 

[Scott34]

No he isn't. He isn't close to being a full time MLBer.

[floplag]

His value is also relevant to the needs of the team too.... but i still say if the best we can get for him is an aging 3-4. forget it, we dont have the prospects to spare at that level of guy can be had in FA.

[Angel Oracle]

A great fall league performance for Cron still doesn't undo that .750 OPS in 2013 in AA.

[Chuck]

No he isn't. He isn't close to being a full time MLBer.

 

In your opinion. Scouts I talked to have changed their stance on Cron.

 

Remember, nobody, including scouts, were high on Mark Trumbo. The highest guy on Trumbo was Eddie Bane, of course.

[Chuck]

A great fall league performance for Cron still doesn't undo that .750 OPS in 2013 in AA.

 

You have failed to read anything I wrote except for his AA numbers.

[Docwaukee]

I wouldn't have a problem giving Cron a look in spring, but there needs to be a better backup than Shuck if he's not ready.  Prefereably someone that can spell hamilton in the late innings as well. 

 

Cron is such an interesting player.  Amazing power without the swing and miss that usually comes with that.  He show solid plate discipline in college and even his first year with the halos.  Then all of sudden he swings at everything yet still found a way to make a ton of contact.  It worked for him in high A and lesser so in AA.  I think he will do really well in AAA this year if he holds true to form yet that may give a false sense of his potential future success. 

 

He's obviously capable of hitting home runs at the big league level some day.  But a 3-5% walk rate and a 13-15% k rate for that type of player is so unusual.

 

In the last 30 years, there have been only a handful players' seasons that have had 25hrs, a <5% walk rate, and a <15% k rate that have hit above .280.  GA, Dante Bichette, Alex Rios were repeat offenders. 

 

It's just a very unusual set of parameters for sustainable major league success.  I personally feel that there will be no middle ground for him because he lacks the ability to play high quality defense.  It will work for him and he will stick, but if it doesn't and he hits .260, there will be other guys to take his place pretty quickly. 

[Mauch Won]

I would still like to see Cron get another season in the minors.  Let Navarro come up, ride the pine, and rest Albert at first every once in a while.  Schuck can DH and lead off

 

DH Schuck

RF Calhoun

CF Trout

1B Pujols

LF Hamilton

2B Kendrick

3B Freese

C   Iannetta/Conger

SS Aybar

[NrM]

What's the rush with Cron. The guy couldn't even put up a .750 OPS in AA ball. 

You need your DH to be one of the best hitters on the team, not the worst.

 

Let him spend at least half the year in AAA so he can prove himself the way Trumbo had to.

[Second Base]

I'm honestly fascinated when people who have literally never seen Cron in their life take one look at his AA numbers and automatically assume they are the subject matter expert. Cron was the best hitter for the Travs in 2013. Better than Lindsey, better than Grichuk, much better than Cowart.

Now understandably, those 3 generally rank higher than Cron on prospect lists because of their youth and defensive premiums, but in terms of skill with the bat, none are better than Cron.

Why were his HR numbers down? He was playing half his games in the most difficult hitting environment in minor league baseball and the other half in a collection of neutral and pitching friendly parks. Never mind the fact that his DB's increased as a result, never mind he was the starting 1B in the Future's Game, never mind he was the best hitter in the AFL, a showcase league for the top minor league talent, never mind the fact that his K/BB ratio improved drastically after the all star break and conitinued to do so in Winter Ball and never mind the fact that he has as much raw power as any elite power hitting prospect in the minors.

He must be awful and that's all there is to it.

[AngelsLakersFan]

So they trade Bourjos to improve offense at 3B only to trade Trumbo and leave a ? at DH. Makes no sense.

 

This is another reason that trade was poor. In a vacuum Bourjos for Freese makes sense if you assume there is no market for Bourjos and he is going to be a fourth outfielder. You are trading greater total value for more realized, on the field value. But if you make a trade later on that would put Bourjos back into the lineup, then you have officially hurt the team. 

 

If we end up trading Kendrick, it's defensible, but if we end up trading Trumbo then the move instantly becomes (like many of us said at the time) premature.

[Angels]

"Cron was the best hitter for the Travs in 2013. Better than Lindsey, better than Grichuk, much better than Cowart."

 

 

Lindsey: 119 wRC+

Grichuk: 116 wRC+

Cron: 107 wRC+.

[tennischmp]

This is another reason that trade was poor. In a vacuum Bourjos for Freese makes sense if you assume there is no market for Bourjos and he is going to be a fourth outfielder. You are trading greater total value for more realized, on the field value. But if you make a trade later on that would put Bourjos back into the lineup, then you have officially hurt the team.

If we end up trading Kendrick, it's defensible, but if we end up trading Trumbo then the move instantly becomes (like many of us said at the time) premature.

Agreed. If they go out and get Hart after trading Trumbo that's makes it better but not if they are relying on a rookie to take over the DH spot

[AngelsLakersFan]

I'm honestly fascinated when people who have literally never seen Cron in their life take one look at his AA numbers and automatically assume they are the subject matter expert. Cron was the best hitter for the Travs in 2013. Better than Lindsey, better than Grichuk, much better than Cowart.

Now understandably, those 3 generally rank higher than Cron on prospect lists because of their youth and defensive premiums, but in terms of skill with the bat, none are better than Cron.

Why were his HR numbers down? He was playing half his games in the most difficult hitting environment in minor league baseball and the other half in a collection of neutral and pitching friendly parks. Never mind the fact that his DB's increased as a result, never mind he was the starting 1B in the Future's Game, never mind he was the best hitter in the AFL, a showcase league for the top minor league talent, never mind the fact that his K/BB ratio improved drastically after the all star break and conitinued to do so in Winter Ball and never mind the fact that he has as much raw power as any elite power hitting prospect in the minors.

He must be awful and that's all there is to it.

 

I'm not sure anyone is writing him off, it seems more like people are questioning whether or not a player who put up a .750 OPS in AA last season should be expected to put up around a .750 OPS for the Angels this year. 

 

It would be a mistake to go into the season with a DH that doesn't project to hit over .700 on the OPS scale. There has to be a better option.

[Scott34]

Why can't Grant Green DH? It's the perfect fit if we deal Trumbo.

[Stradling]

Yea, I will agree that if we go into next season without a bat to replace Trumbo if he is traded then I will questions the plan Dipoto had going into the off season. It also depends on what we get for Trumbo.