Zach Borenstein

[Scott34]

Or it's because he was 23 in a league notorious for turning good hitters into extraordinary hitters.

Honestly I think it's that simple.

[Blarg]

You've got something to say? Say it. 

 

He was a victim of some form of discrimination. Anti-Semitism. Prospect prejudice. Take your pick. It happened. I obviously took exception to it. Do you think anything I said was illegitimate? Speak up and be a man.

If you bring up Anti Semitism as an excuse again without some concrete proof I am locking the thread and putting your account on suspension. You cannot pull this bullshit just because your brother isn't getting all the recognition you need for your ego. Knock it off, child and from this point further you stay on topic.

[Toby Ziegler]

Or it's because he was 23 in a league notorious for turning good hitters into extraordinary hitters.

Honestly I think it's that simple.

 

Didn't turn 23 until the end of July. And 22.8 was the league average age for hitters. It was 23.2 for pitchers.

 

Had he not gotten hurt, he would have been promoted to AA right after the All-Star Break.

 

Max Muncy is the same age as Zach. He was 14th on the list. Muncy is also limited to 1B. Played half of his games at Stockton.

 

Mac Williamson is the same age as Zach. He was 18th on the list.

 

Chris Taylor is the same age as Zach. He was 11th on the list. Played half of his games at High Desert. I actually like Taylor quite a bit.

 

Patrick Kivlehan is 7 months older than Zach. He was 7th on the list and played half of his games at High Desert.

 

Jace Peterson is 4+ months older than Zach. He was 8th on the list. Another promising middle infielder like Taylor.

 

Travis Jankowski is 1 year younger than Zach and posted a .711 OPS. He was 12th on the list. He swiped a lot of bags.

 

Trevor Story was ridiculously bad. OPS was .700. He hit .233. Struck out over 30% of the time. Who cares how old he is?

 

You honestly don't see a double standard?

Edited October 18, 2013 by Toby Ziegler

[Toby Ziegler]

If you bring up Anti Semitism as an excuse again without some concrete proof I am locking the thread and putting your account on suspension. You cannot pull this bullshit just because your brother isn't getting all the recognition you need for your ego. Knock it off, child and from this point further you stay on topic.

 

I brought up anti-Semitism and prospect prejudice. Both are completely legitimate. What does my ego have to do with my brother getting screwed over? If you want to suspend my account, be my guest. I haven't done anything wrong, asshole. Since when is pointing out injustice in the world a bad thing?

 

You want to play the big bad moderator who cracks the whip? That's fine. I stood up for my brother and one of the best prospects in the organization because he got ****ed. And he was discriminated against in some capacity. That could not be any more apparent.

 

The topic is Zach Borenstein. I'm talking about Zach Borenstein. You call me a child and insult me. Stay on topic? Take your own advice.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Toby Ziegler

[Scott34]

No.  A top 10 prospect in a system isn't that old for the league.  I don't really care about average age.  I'm rooting for him, and hope he turns out taking the Calhoun road.

[Stradling]

He wasn't discriminated against, he was either over looked or under appreciated. Discriminated against means it was on purpose.

[Toby Ziegler]

He wasn't discriminated against, he was either over looked or under appreciated. Discriminated against means it was on purpose.

 

And I strongly believe it was deliberate. Pretty hard to overlook the MVP and the best hitter in the league by a wide margin.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Toby Ziegler

[stevestevens]

So is there a great deal of anti-semitism and prospect prejudice that goes on in prospect rankings?  This is honestly a sickening underworld that I have never been exposed to.  This is the kind of stuff that you only read in history books or see in the movies.  Does this injustice go back to World War II or is Zach the sacrificial lamb on Baseball America's new found anti-semite focus?  

[Stradling]

No there isn't Tyler, just someone looking deeper into something other than ignorance.

[Toby Ziegler]

So is there a great deal of anti-semitism and prospect prejudice that goes on in prospect rankings?  This is honestly a sickening underworld that I have never been exposed to.  This is the kind of stuff that you only read in history books or see in the movies.  Does this injustice go back to World War II or is Zach the sacrificial lamb on Baseball America's new found anti-semite focus?  

 

You know when you mock someone for being right you look like a moron.

 

And yes, it goes on in prospect rankings. Bigotry and prejudice never truly go away. They take on different forms. They're more subtle, more concealed. And in this instance it's pretty much out in the open.

 

I really don't understand the backlash I'm getting over this. As fans you should support your prospect and not go out of your way to look for ways to agree with the publication that disrespects him.

 

But then maybe some of you aren't the greatest fans in the world. I could have sworn the Angels played in Los Angeles, not Philadelphia.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Toby Ziegler

[stevestevens]

Interesting, I had no idea that it went on.  Who else has it happened to?  What is your premise for anti-semitism besides that the fact that he was left off the list.

[Toby Ziegler]

Interesting, I had no idea that it went on.  Who else has it happened to?  What is your premise for anti-semitism besides that the fact that he was left off the list.

 

Take your condescending tone and shove it where the sun don't shine.

 

Next thing you'll be telling me that integration in baseball has been around since its inception. No, no bigotry in baseball. That's just absurd.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Toby Ziegler

[m0nkey]

The reason why ryan braun got more than the 50 games everyone else got was because he was jewish.  Any more proof needed?

[stevestevens]

I just want facts.  Please provide them.  I want to know of the anti-semitism that exists towards your brother.  If it does exist then i will never read Baseball America again because that would be disgraceful and disgusting.

[Toby Ziegler]

I just want facts.  Please provide them.  I want to know of the anti-semitism that exists towards your brother.  If it does exist then i will never read Baseball America again because that would be disgraceful and disgusting.

 

I can't prove it's anti-Semitism any more than I can prove the Tea Party is predominantly racist. But it could very well be anti-Semitism. It could also be prospect prejudice (draft slot, region, college, etc.). I think I have clearly demonstrated that it is definitely one of them, if not both of them.

 

The point is there is some form of discrimination going on here, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Toby Ziegler

[stevestevens]

Got it, your accusations are nothing more than speculation.  It sounds like you are just pissed and throwing out anything that might stick the wall.  That is usually what is done in most threads, but calling people anti-semites is taking it a little too far though.  If that helps you sleep at night then carry on.

 

Tell your brother good luck in the fall league.  Hope he snaps out of the slow start.   

[Second Base]

It would appear I returned to this thread just in time.  I'm gonna grab some popcorn. 

[stevestevens]

and by the way, I am glad to see that he has more walks than K's right now in the fall league.  Hopefully that sticks to his game.

[Toby Ziegler]

Got it, your accusations are nothing more than speculation.  It sounds like you are just pissed and throwing out anything that might stick the wall.  That is usually what is done in most threads, but calling people anti-semites is taking it a little too far though.  If that helps you sleep at night then carry on.

 

Tell your brother good luck in the fall league.  Hope he snaps out of the slow start.   

 

Speculation?

 

There were three inferior hitters who made the top 20 who are the same age as Zach. There were two additional inferior hitters who made the top 20 who are older than Zach. There were other inferior hitters who made the top 20 who are younger than Zach. They were all drafted relatively high. 5th round for Muncy and Taylor. 4th round for Kivlehan. 3rd round for Williamson. 1st round for Peterson, Jankowski, and Story.

 

Jim Shonerd's reason for leaving him off the top 20 was "...doubts about the outfielder's athleticism." This is an obvious pretense. If you know anything about Zach, you would know he's athletic.

 

And the fact that he is part of the minority group that has been persecuted the most throughout history isn't relevant at all? It's not like there are a lot of kids playing baseball named Borenstein... The name kind of sticks out.

 

You're saying there is no chance he was discriminated against? I'm just making all of this up? Connect the goddamn dots.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Toby Ziegler

[Tyler]

Doing work on BA too. #behumble

[stevestevens]

Speculation?

 

There were three inferior hitters who made the top 20 who are the same age as Zach. There are two additional inferior hitters who made the top 20 who are older than Zach. They were all drafted relatively high. 5th round for Muncy and Taylor. 4th round for Kivlehan. 3rd round for Williamson. 1st round for Peterson, Jankowski, and Story.

 

Jim Shonerd's reason for leaving him off the top 20 was "...doubts about the outfielder's athleticism." This is an obvious pretense. If you know anything about Zach, you would know he's athletic.

 

And the fact that he is part of the minority group that has been persecuted the most throughout history isn't relevant at all? It's not like there are a lot of kids playing baseball named Borenstein.

 

You're saying there is no chance he was discriminated against? I'm just making all of this up?

 

Yes everything you just listed was speculation.  Is there any evidence at all that Jim Shonerd is an anti-semite.  Any?  If there is, I want to know.  I will not read anything that he puts out if that is the case. Completely disgusting if true. 

[stevestevens]

 

He was a victim of some form of discrimination. Anti-Semitism. Prospect prejudice. Take your pick. It happened. I obviously took exception to it. Do you think anything I said was illegitimate? Speak up and be a man.

 

 

I can't prove it's anti-Semitism any more than I can prove the Tea Party is predominantly racist. But it could very well be anti-Semitism. It could also be prospect prejudice (draft slot, region, college, etc.). I think I have clearly demonstrated that it is definitely one of them, if not both of them.

 

The point is there is some form of discrimination going on here, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

 

See in your own words you are admit your are speculating.  "He was", "It happened" are definites, then you say "I can't prove", "it could" be this, "it could" be that.  You don't have anything concrete besides the fact that he was left off the rankings by guys that he had better numbers than.

[Toby Ziegler]

Yes everything you just listed was speculation.  Is there any evidence at all that Jim Shonerd is an anti-semite.  Any?  If there is, I want to know.  I will not read anything that he puts out if that is the case. Completely disgusting if true. 

 

There is evidence that he is prejudicial. That should be enough.

[Toby Ziegler]

See in your own words you are admit your are speculating.  "He was", "It happened" are definites, then you say "I can't prove", "it could" be this, "it could" be that.  You don't have anything concrete besides the fact that he was left off the rankings by guys that he had better numbers than.

 

As I have already explained, I can't prove that it's anti-Semitism. I believe I have already proved it was a form of discrimination.

 

That is the larger point I'm making.

[stevestevens]

There is evidence that he is prejudicial. That should be enough.

 

Calling someone an anti-semite is not something I take lightly.  So an accusation sighting that it still happens in today's world so he must be doing it too is not "enough" for me.  I admit that it still happens and it is disgraceful. 

 

and what prejudicial evidence is there other than your brothers plight?