Zach Borenstein

[stevestevens]

I can't prove that it's anti-Semitism.

 

then shame on you for bringing it into the discussion and onto aw.com.

 

Complaining that he is being left off lists because of age and draft slot is one thing, calling someone an anti-semite is taking it way too far. 

[Toby Ziegler]

Calling someone an anti-semite is not something I take lightly.  So an accusation sighting that it still happens in today's world so he must be doing it too is not "enough" for me.  I admit that it still happens and it is disgraceful. 

 

and what prejudicial evidence is there other than your brothers plight? 

 

Nor do I lightly make the accusation. Still, I have seen it enough to recognize it.

 

The prejudicial evidence are all the things I just mentioned. Since age wasn't an issue for five hitting prospects who were older or the same age as Zach, we can eliminate that factor.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Toby Ziegler

[Toby Ziegler]

then shame on you for bringing it into the discussion and onto aw.com.

 

Complaining that he is being left off lists because of age and draft slot is one thing, calling someone an anti-semite is taking it way too far. 

 

What do you want, a written confession? Do you want him to take the lie detector test. I can only go by the facts in front of me. And the facts speak to something prejudicial. Since Borenstein is about as Jewish a last name as there is and since Jews are not exactly beloved by the world, one would be foolish or naive to not consider anti-Semitism as a likely cause of the prejudicial treatment.

 

In my experience, when something doesn't add up there is usually something sinister at the root of it.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Toby Ziegler

[Blarg]

Toby's account has been suspended. Whatever bitterness he feels seems to only stem from his keyboard. Zach has spent the last two games hanging out on the dugout rail laughing and talking with his teammates from the other four ballclubs.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Scotty tried to calm him about anti-sematism, then snuck in the term 'jew-els'.

Yeah....I caught you scotty. The legions of you nazis secretly pretending to follow minor league baseball while you bring back facism can't hide forever meine fruende.

[David Mueller]

I was under the impression that BA doesn't even put together these League Top 20 lists themselves, but they compile the lists based on input from the managers of the clubs in the league.  It would be interesting to know.  At any rate, I don't understand how ZB could be completely left off the list.  I don't really think there is much doubt about his athleticism, and I'm not sure how managers that have watched him play could say that.  My guess is that comment goes back to my earlier comment about how he was drafted in the 23rd round, therefore he can't be that athletic, and his insane numbers are more likely to be an aberration.

[tdawg87]

I know he isn't here to "defend" himself right now, but holy mother of God was he seriously calling people anti-semites because his brother didn't make their stupid pointless list that means absolutely nothing?

 

I mean, did this really just happen, or am I being trolled?

[Angel Oracle]

Getting back on track, does BA simply not look closely enough at league MVPs who are average age at most for high-A ball and come from a smaller college like Eastern Illinois?    Are scouts still very leery about smaller colleges?

Edited October 18, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[Stradling]

AO, the simple answer is they just don't believe his skill set translates to higher levels. I haven't seen him play so I have no idea what they saw, nor do I have the eye they do as it relates to evaluating a swing.

[HaloCory22]

Just when you thought this thread couldn't get anymore entertaining it does. Absolutely awesome. 

[Inside Pitch]

I was under the impression that BA doesn't even put together these League Top 20 lists themselves, but they compile the lists based on input from the managers of the clubs in the league.  It would be interesting to know.  At any rate, I don't understand how ZB could be completely left off the list.  I don't really think there is much doubt about his athleticism, and I'm not sure how managers that have watched him play could say that.  My guess is that comment goes back to my earlier comment about how he was drafted in the 23rd round, therefore he can't be that athletic, and his insane numbers are more likely to be an aberration.

 

Yeah -- they poll the managers and scouts and then do a round table of sorts among their own writers.   Still, I do think it's a little odd not to make the list all.... ZB didn't have all that different a season from what George Springer did last year as the same age at Lancaster and I think he was ranked the second best prospect in the Cal League.   The big difference?   Springer is 6'3, 200...   Be it scouts, minor league managers, whatever..  Guys like ZB will always be underrated until they make it to MLB and perform at that level.  This is not a new bias, "projectability" is very often based on nothing other than hopes..  

 

So long as ZB keeps performing, it won't matter who left him off lists.  It's good to see Blarg reporting he's enjoying himself in the AFL...

[Inside Pitch]

Getting back on track, does BA simply not look closely enough at league MVPs who are average age at most for high-A ball and come from a smaller college like Eastern Illinois?    Are scouts still very leery about smaller colleges?

 

It's more about the mindset that if you have two guys who both hit put up 300/.400/.500 lines, one of them is 6'3 185, the other is 5'9 195, that the taller lankier guy has more room to add to his skills with physical tools.   If that guy is 19 and the other guy is 21, then he becomes even more projectable.   BBA has always leaned very heavily at the toolsy types.

 

Id be very curious to see if a BaseballProspectus or Fangraphs would leave him off a minor league top 20 list.   I'd almost be willing to be my favorite man-parts they wouldn't.

[Inside Pitch]

 Zach has spent the last two games hanging out on the dugout rail laughing and talking with his teammates from the other four ballclubs.

 

That's good to hear and honestly - he should be enjoying himself.  Mesa is 7-0 now.  Cron, Lindsey, both doing really well.  ZB hasn't been able to get untracked but, he's got an OBP near .400.   Really outside of Roth all the Angels farmhands have done well.  Bandy hasn't really had a chance to play.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Angel Oracle]

I can understand the height thing to a certain extent, although I always want to believe in the shorter prospect.

After all, Moe Jorgan, Kirby Puckett, Rickey Henderson, Jose Altuve, Albie Pearson, and Freddie Patek were all able to overcome the stigma.

 

I am confused by the use of the 6-3 to 5-9 comparison.

Zach is listed as 6-0, 205.   Is the height actually shorter?   Just curious, I know that Calhoun is around 5-9.

 

If he is 6-0, plenty of 6-0 players have made it solidly in MLB.    Robin Yount is only 6-0.

 

All I know is, Zach having a quick and fluid swing can't hurt him down the road.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[Inside Pitch]

I can understand the height thing to a certain extent, although I always want to believe in the shorter prospect.

After all, Moe Jorgan, Kirby Puckett, Rickey Henderson, Jose Altuve, Albie Pearson, and Freddie Patek were all able to overcome the stigma.

 

I am confused by the use of the 6-3 to 5-9 comparison.

Zach is listed as 6-0, 205.   Is the height actually shorter?   Just curious

 

If he is 6-0, plenty of 6-0 players have made it solidly in MLB.    

 

I'm saying in general, if you see two guys, one's 6 inches shorter...  The taller guy will get more looks and there will be more hype because the idea he has room to grow physically.   ZB is seen by many guys as a maxed out guy who at 22 wasn't young for his league.  He also happens to be a white guy...  So, someone will question his athleticism based on that too.

 

His name could be Chad Baker and you'd likely see the same bias.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Second Base]

My cover is blown!!!  Ten Ocho caught me.  Auf Wiedersehen Angelswin!!!!

[Blarg]

Today in the AFL. Zach got a hit today (1-4) but the Solar Sox suffered their first loss due to some pretty poor pitching. Zach was involved in the go ahead run by fielding a fly ball to left correctly and then let loose a throw that skied the catcher and hit mid way up the net allowing the runner on third to score standing up.

Notable was Morin that allowed one walk but then struck out two, getting two of the hitters to look really dumb trying to react to the off speed pitch. He so far has not allowed a run in 4 innings with 2 hits and 1BB.

The player to watch this season is 3rd baseman Kris Bryant of the Cubs. After striking out in the first inning he comes up to the plate with a runner on first and scorches a line drive off the top of the fence in left center field for what should have been a home run. Instead the three blind mice and crew chief gather and decide it was a ground rule double. Not a very large crowd but the boo birds gave the umpires hell for completely botching that call so badly it should have had the whole crew immediately moved to emergency for a brain scan.

The game continues and the following inning Bryant comes up and this time it is a towering drive to left field that almost reaches the scoreboard about 430+ feet away. The crowd yells out "Ground rule double!"

Two innings later Bryant is at the plate and does it again, killing another monster blast and the crown again start chanting ground rule double. So now this kid has to be called Ground Rule Bryant. He had three home runs but only credited for two and each shot was such a sweet swing you can see he is not going to be in AA very long before the PA announcer in Wrigley is calling his name.

Bryant is from Las Vegas, the home town of Bryce Harper and the same age. He is a big guy at 6'5" but fields third base very well, has a strong arm and completely destroyed High A last season after brief stints in Rookie ball and A. Season total was .336/.390/.688/1.078 he is the Mike Trout/Bryce Harper of the Cubs.

Yes, he would easily be ranked way above Borenstein by any measure.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Eric Notti

[stevestevens]

So, green, Blanton, and romine for Bryant

[Stradling]

Sad thing is it would be cool to have this kind of insight into a minor leaguer, but Toby is just awful and incredibly blinded by hate and conspiracy theories.

[Stradling]

I am not siding with anyone. I just won't jump to claiming anti-Semitism like a crazy person. Enjoy your lifetime ban.

[bloodbrother]

Why do people gotta be so mad all the time

[Blarg]

Locking thread. The Borenstein family does not need this being associated with them.