A little optimism…

[fan_since79]

Rendon is on the active roster but not playing. It's like the team is short one player. Stupid. If he can't play put him back on the IL and add somebody that can play.

[jsnpritchett]

12 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Rendon is on the active roster but not playing. It's like the team is short one player. Stupid. If he can't play put him back on the IL and add somebody that can play.

Yeah, I think that was a strategic mistake.  If they would have just put him on the IL immediately, he'd be eligible to come off the IL for Saturday's game and the Angels wouldn't have played a man down for the three games prior to the break.  Now, if he's still not ready and actually does need to go on the IL, they can only make it retroactive for 3 days--which means he'll miss at a minimum 6 or 7 games post-break.

[Angels 1961]

3 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

Yeah, I think that was a strategic mistake.  If they would have just put him on the IL immediately, he'd be eligible to come off the IL for Saturday's game and the Angels wouldn't have played a man down for the three games prior to the break.  Now, if he's still not ready and actually does need to go on the IL, they can only make it retroactive for 3 days--which means he'll miss at a minimum 6 or 7 games post-break.

In spring of 2024 will be in best shape of his life.

[Jeff Fletcher]

18 hours ago, Trendon said:

Additionally, I’m perplexed by the non-updates on Davis Daniel, Chris Rodriguez, and Jose Marte.

We’ve heard nothing on them the last month.

We haven’t heard anything about Stassi, for obvious reasons, but I’m beginning to wonder if he’ll ever play again.

Chris Rodriguez is out for the season. I reported that when the Angels were in KC. 
 

Honestly I haven’t really asked about Daniel or Marte in a while. 

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Chris Rodriguez is out for the season. I reported that when the Angels were in KC. 
 

Honestly I haven’t really asked about Daniel or Marte in a while. 

Yeah, I did see that C-Rod update. Just surprised there wasn’t like a full announcement about that or anything.

I get that Daniel and Marte are down on the totem pole of injured players, so to speak.

At this point, I’m just kinda wondering if they’re out for the season or what cause it’s been dead silent.

[totdprods]

58 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Yeah, I did see that C-Rod update. Just surprised there wasn’t like a full announcement about that or anything.

I get that Daniel and Marte are down on the totem pole of injured players, so to speak.

At this point, I’m just kinda wondering if they’re out for the season or what cause it’s been dead silent.

I thought Marte had TJ?

[Warfarin]

Having read parts of this thread, I think there is a general anxiety with this team in terms of "we have to win this year, or Ohtani is gone and this franchise is screwed."

I think losing Ohtani would hurt, but I think the organization can recover.

There are a lot of signs for optimism.  Their farm system is growing and looking stronger.  Minasian seems to have a good idea of how to build an organization.

 

 @Trendon you mentioned that the Angels will probably just go right out and sign someone else to a stupid contract, but I actually don't think that's true.  I remember a quote this spring about how Arte wanted to go sign Trea Turner, feeling he was the missing piece, but Minasian effectively told him we need a lot more than just Turner and instead to spread the money (and risk) around.  I think he would do the same this offseason, if he had some money (which he will, if Ohtani does not re-sign).

Neto was drafted, came up, and looked good.  O'Hoppe looked good in his cameo appearance.  Moniak has been recalled and is performing surprisingly well.  I see what appears to be an overall strong organizational development process occurring.  It may not be in time to retain Ohtani, but we can still be a good, successful organization even if he moves on, and I feel like Minasian is helping us head in that direction.

[BTH]

27 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I thought Marte had TJ?

if he did, they didn’t say so

[BTH]

23 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

 @Trendon you mentioned that the Angels will probably just go right out and sign someone else to a stupid contract, but I actually don't think that's true.  I remember a quote this spring about how Arte wanted to go sign Trea Turner, feeling he was the missing piece, but Minasian effectively told him we need a lot more than just Turner and instead to spread the money (and risk) around.  I think he would do the same this offseason, if he had some money (which he will, if Ohtani does not re-sign).

I agree with everything you said, but my concern is if Arte “turns” on Perry after this season. Whether that’s outright firing him or not listening to him.

I don’t agree with it, but it’s not hard for me to envision a scenario where Arte essentially says “I tried your idea to spread the money out, and it didn’t work, so I’m gonna do it my way.”

That’d be short-sighted and stupid, but it’s not far-fetched with Arte.

Another factor is that if Ohtani leaves, Arte’s may want to make a splash on a flashy name in order to keep attendance up. The tricky thing is this free agent class doesn’t really have those guys on the offensive side, so maybe he signs a big name pitcher?

[BTH]

1 minute ago, Trendon said:

Another factor is that if Ohtani leaves, Arte’s may want to make a splash on a flashy name in order to keep attendance up. The tricky thing is this free agent class doesn’t really have those guys on the offensive side, so maybe he signs a big name pitcher?

Along these lines, after looking at 23-24 free agents, I just had a terrible thought:

Watch Arte overpay Julio Urías in an attempt to draw in more Mexican fans. I’d hate that because Urías committed DV, and I don’t want that guy on the team.

[Warfarin]

14 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I agree with everything you said, but my concern is if Arte “turns” on Perry after this season. Whether that’s outright firing him or not listening to him.

I don’t agree with it, but it’s not hard for me to envision a scenario where Arte essentially says “I tried your idea to spread the money out, and it didn’t work, so I’m gonna do it my way.”

That’d be short-sighted and stupid, but it’s not far-fetched with Arte.

Another factor is that if Ohtani leaves, Arte’s may want to make a splash on a flashy name in order to keep attendance up. The tricky thing is this free agent class doesn’t really have those guys on the offensive side, so maybe he signs a big name pitcher?

None of us can really know, but I feel like Arte effectively trusted Minasian enough to not force him to sign Turner.  I also don't think there is really anyone of note to sign this offseason either, or at least anyone in the same stratosphere as Ohtani is.

I think Perry would strongly advise against signing a pitcher to a long-term contract.  We'll see what happens.

[Ron Mexico]

26 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Along these lines, after looking at 23-24 free agents, I just had a terrible thought:

Watch Arte overpay Julio Urías in an attempt to draw in more Mexican fans. I’d hate that because Urías committed DV, and I don’t want that guy on the team.

I would take him no problem 

[Duren, Duren]

Reinvention isn't the worst thing. Getting away from the unsuccesful approach of big money for big names might actually be worth pursuing. 

I saw it over and over every three or four years with the Expos from the late eighties through the end of the nineties. From the exact moment long time owner Charles Bronfman sold the team to a consortium of local businessmen. All of whom only cared about the bottom line. And we're not even baseball fans, but felt they were doing their civic duty by buying the team.

It's a long painful story for me. If anyone is interested there is a really good book about the entire fiasco.

Also lots of good insight about the discovery of Vlad, his youth and crazy appetites. 

But my point is that the farm system, great scouting and development can build a winner quicker than many realize.

Finding and recognizing talented potential is the key. Literally beating the bushes, checking out  obscure leads, (nationally and internationally) having a solid network of sources. Meeting the players, their families and coaches. And then integrating them into a teaching and development system with quality personnel. 

Scouting can be more than common data bases and the mainstream colleges and amateur leagues. Though those certainly do produce most of the pool of talent. 

Change of ownership seems the only way that the franchise can ever get out of this repeating loop of a big names/money nucleus that eats up a disproportionate amount of payroll. 

And a certain ruthlessness is also needed to trade the stars at the right time and reinvest in bringing  in new crops of cheaper youth.

 

 

 

 

 

[Angels 1961]

Have Ohtani T-shirt night and bring back thunder sticks. Angel fans need to make some noise show Sho you really care. 

[BTH]

25 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Have Ohtani T-shirt night and bring back thunder sticks. Angel fans need to make some noise show Sho you really care. 

For once, I actually agree with one of your posts.

It won’t make a difference in his decision, but it would be nice for Angels fans to fully show Ohtani appreciation before he possibly leaves.

Have one night where there are “stay in Anaheim” chants or something like that.

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Trendon said:

For once, I actually agree with one of your posts.

It won’t make a difference in his decision, but it would be nice for Angels fans to fully show Ohtani appreciation before he possibly leaves.

Have one night where there are “stay in Anaheim” chants or something like that.

STAY SHO STAY STAY SHO STAY hard to do when Yankees are in town half the crowd Yankee fans. Not many days left before trade deadline or Ohtani becoming a FA. Little has been done by management or fans to show most talented player ever to play this game how much they care. Funny how Seattle fans chanted during all star game. Ohtani should be given a standing ovation every at bat now. Angel fans instead to busy taking photos with phones. Put the phones down and stand up and show Ohtani how much you care about him.

[Angel Oracle]

9 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Chris Rodriguez is out for the season. I reported that when the Angels were in KC. 
 

Honestly I haven’t really asked about Daniel or Marte in a while. 

Could this be a wrap on C-Rod’s career?

7 years since being drafted, only 127.2 innings pitched

Edited July 14, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[Angel Oracle]

6 hours ago, Warfarin said:

None of us can really know, but I feel like Arte effectively trusted Minasian enough to not force him to sign Turner.  I also don't think there is really anyone of note to sign this offseason either, or at least anyone in the same stratosphere as Ohtani is.

I think Perry would strongly advise against signing a pitcher to a long-term contract.  We'll see what happens.

Would Yamamoto in FA be a good pitching pivot, if not re-signing Ohtani?

If none of the pending FAs including Ohtani stays (also Renfroe, Loup, Urshela, Escobar, Moose, and already DFA’d Tepera), that’s $60-$65 million under the tax threshold for 2024.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[Jeff Fletcher]

15 hours ago, Trendon said:

Yeah, I did see that C-Rod update. Just surprised there wasn’t like a full announcement about that or anything.

I get that Daniel and Marte are down on the totem pole of injured players, so to speak.

At this point, I’m just kinda wondering if they’re out for the season or what cause it’s been dead silent.

There was no “announcement” about CRod because there was nothing to announce. He wasn’t having surgery or anything. All the tests they’ve done have not shown anything that could be repaired with any new procedure.

Nevin just said it had taken too long for him to get better and based on the calendar he was out of time.

[Angels 1961]

19 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

There was no “announcement” about CRod because there was nothing to announce. He wasn’t having surgery or anything. All the tests they’ve done have not shown anything that could be repaired with any new procedure.

Nevin just said it had taken too long for him to get better and based on the calendar he was out of time.

Feel bad for Chris Rod such a talent when healthy. Could have been huge piece for halos.

[jsnpritchett]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

Feel bad for Chris Rod such a talent when healthy. Could have been huge piece for halos.

Yeah, I feel bad for him, too, but the reality is, he just can't stay on the mound.  This is the 8th season since he was drafted and he has pitched a total of 127 2/3 innings over that timeframe.  Maybe he figures out whatever is wrong and comes up with a long-term solution for it, but at this point, I think you just have to completely write him off in terms of future planning.

[Jay]

24 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Yeah, I feel bad for him, too, but the reality is, he just can't stay on the mound.  This is the 8th season since he was drafted and he has pitched a total of 127 2/3 innings over that timeframe.  Maybe he figures out whatever is wrong and comes up with a long-term solution for it, but at this point, I think you just have to completely write him off in terms of future planning.

Wait, I thought this is the optimism thread.

[Warfarin]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:23 AM, Angel Oracle said:

Would Yamamoto in FA be a good pitching pivot, if not re-signing Ohtani?

If none of the pending FAs including Ohtani stays (also Renfroe, Loup, Urshela, Escobar, Moose, and already DFA’d Tepera), that’s $60-$65 million under the tax threshold for 2024.

 

 

Yeah, there is a lot of payroll space that could be made available.  

There aren't a lot of compelling free agents, but I think we'd see Minasian employ a "spread the money around" philosophy.  While this team is going through a rough patch right now, they do look like a better team with more depth than they were just a year ago.  I would expect to see more signings like Drury, Estevez, etc - guys signed to fairly short-term deals.  They don't all pan out (Anderson, Loup, Tepera), but some have been rather good.  The key to all of this, though, is to keep developing internal talent.  

Again though, this is probably why it makes sense to trade Ohtani now.  They could ship him to the Dodgers and probably get at least a really solid hitter (Busch?) and probably a solid mid-rotation SP (any of their SP prospects not named Miller).  That would seem to be a good start, and then you sprinkle it in with some calculated gambles and good prospect development (this is the key part), and we could contend fairly quickly.

[Angels 1961]

53 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Yeah, there is a lot of payroll space that could be made available.  

There aren't a lot of compelling free agents, but I think we'd see Minasian employ a "spread the money around" philosophy.  While this team is going through a rough patch right now, they do look like a better team with more depth than they were just a year ago.  I would expect to see more signings like Drury, Estevez, etc - guys signed to fairly short-term deals.  They don't all pan out (Anderson, Loup, Tepera), but some have been rather good.  The key to all of this, though, is to keep developing internal talent.  

Again though, this is probably why it makes sense to trade Ohtani now.  They could ship him to the Dodgers and probably get at least a really solid hitter (Busch?) and probably a solid mid-rotation SP (any of their SP prospects not named Miller).  That would seem to be a good start, and then you sprinkle it in with some calculated gambles and good prospect development (this is the key part), and we could contend fairly quickly.

I agree and if Ohtani is gone opens DH for Trout and fan favorite Rendon.

[Angelsjunky]

Optimism: the Angels have collapsed at the right time, which will prompt Minasian to sell off as many parts as possible, rather than hold onto everyone and fall apart during the stretch run. Trading Ohtani, Estevez, Drury, Renfroe, and Moore will help replenish the farm system. 

The only caveat to the above is if the Angels have a small decent run, he might be tempted to not sell. But given that the next five games are against the Astros and Yankees, that is unlikely to happen soon and by the time the schedule lightens up vs. Pittsburgh and Detroit starting on July 21, the Angels will probably be 5 games under .500 and their fate sealed.