4 Straight, 8 of 9, and 12 of 15

[Hubs]

Isn’t losing this many games against subpar teams as bad as losing 12 in a row last year… (ultimately 14, but two were under Nevin). 
 

I don’t think firing the manager is going to solve all the problems but I’d be shocked if Nevin was back next year with anything short of a Braves 22 / Phillies 22 / Nationals 19 style second half.  

Also, I’d actually doubt Minasian was back. Despite his two good drafts and some good but some bad free agents. 
 

I know a lot of you want Arte to be gone but I don’t see that happening this year. But I wouldn’t be surprised to see a complete overhaul of the management and the front office if they slump again this season. 
 

And as far as injuries and bad luck go, it happens, they have to have depth to deal with it and they have had 10 plus years of terrible player development. Yes Minasian gets some credit for having acquired and promoted some good pieces but the team has struggled in developing them. And  some take longer than others like Thaiss, and Adell (hopefully).

 

This team has a lot of talent but isn’t executing the way it needs to as evidenced by poor bullpen performances and a lack of hitting with RISP. Nevin has too quick of a hook sometimes and too much patience others which leads me to believe it’s being called down from the front office, like Maddon claimed. 
 

I have tickets for four more games in various cities in the second half so I hope they turn it around, but if they don’t, well i doubt anyone is back. And Arte will still try to bring back Shohei, but it will be a difficult sell.

[Taylor]

Is that bad?

[mmc]

11 minutes ago, Hubs said:

This team has a lot of talent but isn’t executing the way it needs to as evidenced by poor bullpen performances and a lack of hitting with RISP. Nevin has too quick of a hook sometimes and too much patience others which leads me to believe it’s being called down from the front office, like Maddon claimed. 

Not sure why this is still the narrative, but I’ll say it again despite saying it multiple times already, the front office does NOT make in game decisions regarding the bullpen, they merely supply the coaching staff with data

[fan_since79]

Arte should sell the team to person(s) who will do what it takes to build a winner. He can pocket his billions in profit and enjoy his retirement with his family.

Then the rebuild will begin.

[Stradling]

I don’t have an opinion on whether or not Nevin is fired or he is let go at the end of the season.  I don’t think Benji is the savior some think he is, because if he was, he would be making an impact now, as a coach.  He is the infield coach and I think we complain about the defense as much as we ever have.  I think it would be very dumb to not keep Perry as he seems to be drafting very well and there is nothing more important than drafting and developing.  As far as Arte goes, he is at fault for a ton of things, and we would all like him to sell. 

[UndertheHalo]

They’re going to lose 10-15 in a row because that’s the funniest thing that could happen.  We need a double digit losing streak baby.  
 

they should keep Nevin around.  Who gives a shit.  What difference does it make. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by UndertheHalo

[nando714]

Currently in Maui. 

Thank god I don’t have to watch this abortion live 

[fan_since79]

Heck, give Nevin an extension. The players like him. Got to keep the players happy. While they're at it, extend Rendon. He should be all healed up by 2026 and raring to go.

[AngelsFaninGA]

There's a lack of leadership amongst the players. A manager change won't fix that

[Turd Ferguson]

New season, same story. Definition of insanity. Tear the thing down and start over, starting with an Ohtani trade. Might be painful for a few years but can't be any worse than the last 15.

[stormngt]

53 minutes ago, mmc said:

Not sure why this is still the narrative, but I’ll say it again despite saying it multiple times already, the front office does NOT make in game decisions regarding the bullpen, they merely supply the coaching staff with data

So the frobt office diesnt tell the manager which pitchers are available to use as reported?

In game decisions were phoned to Maddon during the game as he claimed?

[Justin]

I would be shocked if Perry were fired. 

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, stormngt said:

So the frobt office diesnt tell the manager which pitchers are available to use as reported?

In game decisions were phoned to Maddon during the game as he claimed?

Maddon said they told him to take Trout out of a game when it was 8-1 in the 8th the day Trout complained of a hip issue. 
As for which pitchers are available it’s more along the lines of which pitchers should be avoided based on recent usage. At least that’s my understanding. 

[Angel Oracle]

Minasian and Tamin are doing the right things.   
 
Things did not improve a whole lot while Eppler was here.

Starting either once the injured are back playing or from the beginning in 2024, we should start to see the results from what Minasian/Tamin have been doing.

Of course, keeping Ohtani going forward and better team health would help a lot.

Regarding Nevin, the right decision will be made one way or another in the off-season, now that they had 1 2/3 seasons to observe Nevin.

Just finish at .500 at least, and put the losing seasons behind them.

[halomatt]

Pretty depressing right now, and lots of negativity.  I hate the idea of folding up shop right now.  If the Angels hit double digits behind the last Wild Card, it's time to trade anything that isn't bolted to the floor.  Most important would be to get Ohtani traded quickly.  The team may get slight better players if the trade is made quickly.  Even though he's a rental, he's a game-changer and he's going to get some good talent back (more if the Angels pay some money).  Then it's about getting the tradeable commodities (like Renfroe and Ward) playing well so there's value to acquire talent.  A shitty Ward isn't appealing to any team, so he may be un-tradeable if he doesn't get going,even for a hot streak. 

I'd love them to stay within five games of the Wild Card, though.  That would make things very interesting if the team gets some health back and can start hitting again. 

Keep Nevin and Minasian.  This isn't their fault.  My biggest hangup with Arte is he's impulsive, likes shiny baubles, and meddles too much.  Can't fault him for opening his wallet and increasing the budget. 

I think this team, healthy, could make some noise in the second half.  I don't envy Angel management and the decisions they have to make. 

[gurn67]

Arte has never spent a dime on hiring a General Manager. He's probably spent more on Managers than any other owner during his tenure. Scioscia's contract is still the highest contract ever given to Manager by double the 2nd highest. He paid a ton of money to Maddon too. However, he has always hired first time General Managers who would take whatever piddly amount they were offered to get a chance that they may never get offered again. Just another example of the strange and ineffective way that he spends his money. There have been many proven championship building GM's that have been available during his ownership. Those guys can also bring in the top available front office people as well. However, he chooses to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on "superstar" free agents, or trading for big contracts, after their peak. Also, he spends near the bottom on GM's., scouting and player development. I'll guarantee you that the teams that invest more in their front office, scouting and development win much more consistently than those who blow money on free agents. I'm pretty sure he spent over $800,000,000 on Pujols, Hamilton, Rendon, Wells & Upton. How did those moves work out?

[cals]

I support firing Fatassian.  Good call.

[AngelsLakersFan]

13 minutes ago, gurn67 said:

Arte has never spent a dime on hiring a General Manager. He's probably spent more on Managers than any other owner during his tenure. Scioscia's contract is still the highest contract ever given to Manager by double the 2nd highest. He paid a ton of money to Maddon too. However, he has always hired first time General Managers who would take whatever piddly amount they were offered to get a chance that they may never get offered again. Just another example of the strange and ineffective way that he spends his money. There have been many proven championship building GM's that have been available during his ownership. Those guys can also bring in the top available front office people as well. However, he chooses to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on "superstar" free agents, or trading for big contracts, after their peak. Also, he spends near the bottom on GM's., scouting and player development. I'll guarantee you that the teams that invest more in their front office, scouting and development win much more consistently than those who blow money on free agents. I'm pretty sure he spent over $800,000,000 on Pujols, Hamilton, Rendon, Wells & Upton. How did those moves work out?

Established front office people are not going to accept a job where the owner tells them how to run the team. Arte doesn't seem to care to micromanage the on field manager so he ends up putting his money there.

[Angels 1961]

Just now, AngelsLakersFan said:

Established front office people are not going to accept a job where the owner tells them how to run the team. Arte doesn't seem to care to micromanage the on field manager so he ends up putting his money there.

That is why Arte has never had an established GM hiring

[Stradling]

Just now, AngelsLakersFan said:

Established front office people are not going to accept a job where the owner tells them how to run the team. Arte doesn't seem to care to micromanage the on field manager so he ends up putting his money there.

Just my opinion but it doesn’t appear he is doing that with Minasian.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Just my opinion but it doesn’t appear he is doing that with Minasian.  

I think you're right. He did say that he took some responsibility for how the team was run in the past, so maybe that's the result of the soul searching. At the same time he does still seem to tell Minasian what he thinks he should be doing. To me that implies Perry has a short leash in terms of going against Arte's wishes.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I think you're right. He did say that he took some responsibility for how the team was run in the past, so maybe that's the result of the soul searching. At the same time he does still seem to tell Minasian what he thinks he should be doing. To me that implies Perry has a short leash in terms of going against Arte's wishes.

Totally possible.  

[Angels 1961]

Gloom and doom finger pointing at GM, manager, owner, Pujols, Rendon, coaches so many to blame. I see light at the end of tunnel. Build around young players Angels have. Trade Ohtani (he is leaving after this season) get what you can. DH spot be open for Trout and Rendon next year. Make some kind of plan going forward. Minasian tried this off season and before all the injuries piled up halos were in W/C race. Bright spots this year in Neto, O'Hoppe, Moniak, Thaiss and hopefully Adell. Time to work on plan for 2024 and beyond. 

[fan_since79]

2 hours ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

There's a lack of leadership amongst the players. A manager change won't fix that

A manager like Darin Erstad could change things in a hurry.

I miss the days when we had hard nosed players like him. Now we have overpaid 'stars' nursing boo-boos for weeks on end, and constantly injured.

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

A manager like Darin Erstad could change things in a hurry.

I miss the days when we had hard nosed players like him. Now we have overpaid 'stars' nursing boo-boos for weeks on end, and constantly injured.

This ignores the simple fact that both Erstad and Nevin are hard ass guys.  Why would it be different for Erstad, because he wore the Angel uniform during 2002?