Greatness Interrupted: The Decline (or not?) of Mike Trout

[arch stanton]

What we saw with Albert was him starting to sell out a bit to get the inside pitches and it ruined one of the greatest opposite field hitters in baseball history. I’m just concerned that if Trout spends all his energy solving that high fastball it will affect his greatest strengths which are devouring anything in the lower half of the zone especially the off speed stuff 

[Docwaukee]

53 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

What we saw with Albert was him starting to sell out a bit to get the inside pitches and it ruined one of the greatest opposite field hitters in baseball history. I’m just concerned that if Trout spends all his energy solving that high fastball it will affect his greatest strengths which are devouring anything in the lower half of the zone especially the off speed stuff 

I personally think this is what's happening.  He's actually handling strikes in upper part of the zone about the same.  It's the ones out of the zone he's swinging at way more and whiffing way more.  He's also swinging a lot more and mostly at those pitches up in the zone.  I think he's getting so many of those that the sort of calibration for his eye level has changed.  The ratio of number of pitches up that he's seeing relative to other stuff hasn't changed much according to the data.  He's just swinging at the ones out of the zone so much more often.  

[Stradling]

10 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

For being dwarfed by Trout, not having a training regimen, and facing pitchers who didn't throw as hard, Mantle for some reason was able to hit the ball alot farther than players do now.

Or when he hit a ball, they guessed how far it went. Now we know how far it went. 

[Stradling]

10 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Claude.

 

He’s the worst. He once suggested trading Trout for a package that included Gary Sanchez, Aaron Hicks, Miguel Andujar and I think it was Justus Sheffield, because it would make the Angels better. 

[Dtwncbad]

Wait, aren’t we required to talk about Bryce Harper in every Mike Trout career discussion?  Let’s stick to the rules.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Dtwncbad

[ten ocho recon scout]

7 hours ago, arch stanton said:

What we saw with Albert was him starting to sell out a bit to get the inside pitches and it ruined one of the greatest opposite field hitters in baseball history. I’m just concerned that if Trout spends all his energy solving that high fastball it will affect his greatest strengths which are devouring anything in the lower half of the zone especially the off speed stuff 

There's a good gross joke in here about Trout devouring balls below the waist.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I've been one of the louder ones here saying "Trout doesn't look right." And I'm still one of the least worried, in that I think he'll snap back soon enough.

Still, I've been saying this the past 2 years or so.... ehat you're seeing know is something everyone needs to get used to...

... meaning Trout, like everyone before him, is getting older.... he's at one point or another going to be a dud, and waste of money.

The difference between him, and the others we've had to sit through is that you can't ever complain about Trout. We got his best years, he's bona-fide inner circle hall of fame years. And we got them at a great price.

It would be like if the Cards gave Pujols the big contract in 2012 instead of us. It eould have still been ugly, but you saw too many phenom years to get upset. He earned it with the fans and org.

Albert's flaw was that he was constantly in the "look at my numbers" attitude. Which is true... but none of us actually saw them... and could care less how good he was 2000 miles away, in a different league, before we were paying him.

[AngelsFaninGA]

35 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I've been one of the louder ones here saying "Trout doesn't look right." And I'm still one of the least worried, in that I think he'll snap back soon enough.

Still, I've been saying this the past 2 years or so.... ehat you're seeing know is something everyone needs to get used to...

... meaning Trout, like everyone before him, is getting older.... he's at one point or another going to be a dud, and waste of money.

The difference between him, and the others we've had to sit through is that you can't ever complain about Trout. We got his best years, he's bona-fide inner circle hall of fame years. And we got them at a great price.

It would be like if the Cards gave Pujols the big contract in 2012 instead of us. It eould have still been ugly, but you saw too many phenom years to get upset. He earned it with the fans and org.

Albert's flaw was that he was constantly in the "look at my numbers" attitude. Which is true... but none of us actually saw them... and could care less how good he was 2000 miles away, in a different league, before we were paying him.

Agreed, I'm more than fine overpaying Trout for a few years given that he's ingratiated himself to the fanbase more than anyone else in the team's history. Plus it happens to every player these days since someone will always offer that one last contract even after the player is largely done (look at Verlander and Nelson Cruz). 

[Chuck]

[full circle]

49 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Trout HR was great, but it says nothing about being able to project him improving overall for the season.  He hit a hanging breaking ball out, and proceeded to K twice after that, swinging through 94 middle middle in the process.  The fact he can’t hit a fastball located anywhere above the knees should still be extremely concerning.  

[Swordsman78]

6 minutes ago, full circle said:

Trout HR was great, but it says nothing about being able to project him improving overall for the season.  He hit a hanging breaking ball out, and proceeded to K twice after that, swinging through 94 middle middle in the process.  The fact he can’t hit a fastball located anywhere above the knees should still be extremely concerning.  

Trout was just in a slump.  He worked his way out of it just like alot of guys said he would. 

[Blarg]

Just now, Swordsman78 said:

Trout was just in a slump.  He worked his way out of it just like alot of guys said he would. 

You really have no god-damned idea what you are talking about. Trout for the previous 12 games has hit .227/.359/.386/.745 which is a slump for a player of his reputation.

But he hasn't come out of it, the last 6 games he has been worse and hit .150/.346/.300/.646. His one hit tonight isn't moving that meter hardly at all, it improves his batting average to a whole .166 in 7 games.

 

 

 

[Swordsman78]

16 minutes ago, Blarg said:

You really have no god-damned idea what you are talking about. Trout for the previous 12 games has hit .227/.359/.386/.745 which is a slump for a player of his reputation.

But he hasn't come out of it, the last 6 games he has been worse and hit .150/.346/.300/.646. His one hit tonight isn't moving that meter hardly at all, it improves his batting average to a whole .166 in 7 games.

 

 

 

Last 2 games were the "Bleeding edge" of Trout's breakout.   You are just slow picking up on the mojo.  Hopefully opponent pitching coaches will subscribe to your metrics and keep pitching to him tho.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Swordsman78

[Angelsjunky]

Fangraphs take:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/pondering-mike-trouts-sluggish-start/

I’m no hitting coach, but Trout’s numbers and words suggest he’s dealing with some combination of declining bat speed and mechanical issues. Those may or may not have something to do with age and his recent injuries, particularly with his back. Having said that, even while conceding that I’m particularly prone to anxiety about Trout, and that I’m hardly alone among my FanGraphs colleagues, I don’t yet think that what we’ve seen from him in 2023 is his new normal. Sooner or later, he and his coaches will identify and target an issue or two and adjust accordingly, and while he may not get back to a wRC+ in the 170s, there’s a lot of ground between that level and his current one. Plus, as Wednesday night shows, he still plays a mean center field. He’s currently playing at a 5.4-WAR pace, and it’s hardly a stretch to think he can get back above 6.0 (last year he was at 6.1 while missing a quarter of the season). If he’s no longer the very best player in the game — Ronald Acuña Jr., Aaron Judge, and Shohei Ohtani would be three I’d put on the podium, in some order — he’s still one of the best and most exciting. I think we can figure out a way to live with that.

 

[full circle]

On 6/7/2023 at 10:33 PM, Swordsman78 said:

Last 2 games were the "Bleeding edge" of Trout's breakout.   You are just slow picking up on the mojo.  Hopefully opponent pitching coaches will subscribe to your metrics and keep pitching to him tho.

Good call

[Angelsjunky]

This is getting kind of pathetic. His batting line is now down to .253/.350/.477, 128 wRC+.

April: .317/.400/.606, 7 HR, 34 Ks in 26 games

May: .245/.339/.449, 6 HR, 31 Ks in 26 games

June: .094/.237/.188, 1 HR, 14 Ks in 9 games

And it almost looked like he was starting to warm up a few games ago, but instead 0-11 in his last three games with 7 Ks.

 

[Angelsjunky]

And just to think: 7 1/2 more years. 

[full circle]

DL stint coming up. 

[TroutField]

It’s really bad and I’m very worried. 
 

the bat speed just isn’t there and he can’t even muster up a single right now. 
 

[notherhalo]

Pujols will have had a better second half of his career than Trout

[Blarg]

He can't be clogging up the number 3 spot, killing rallies every night, while he tries to figure his swing out. Nevin needs to make the lineup move for the good of the team. When Trout becomes Trout again he can move back to the MOTO. But right now even Neto is hitting better than Trout. 

[arch stanton]

Yeah but all he has to do is deposit one of those high fastballs in the rock pile and things will start to revert to normal. If he and Sandoval both get their shit together with no one else going in the tank they could go on an extended run of .700+ ball that puts them in prime position 

[Angel Oracle]

On 6/7/2023 at 6:37 AM, ten ocho recon scout said:

I've been one of the louder ones here saying "Trout doesn't look right." And I'm still one of the least worried, in that I think he'll snap back soon enough.

Still, I've been saying this the past 2 years or so.... ehat you're seeing know is something everyone needs to get used to...

... meaning Trout, like everyone before him, is getting older.... he's at one point or another going to be a dud, and waste of money.

The difference between him, and the others we've had to sit through is that you can't ever complain about Trout. We got his best years, he's bona-fide inner circle hall of fame years. And we got them at a great price.

It would be like if the Cards gave Pujols the big contract in 2012 instead of us. It eould have still been ugly, but you saw too many phenom years to get upset. He earned it with the fans and org.

Albert's flaw was that he was constantly in the "look at my numbers" attitude. Which is true... but none of us actually saw them... and could care less how good he was 2000 miles away, in a different league, before we were paying him.

And this is why it’s a bad idea to sign big money FAs away from other teams.

Ohtani would be the same thing.

[IheartLA]

This “slump” doesn’t feel like the other minor blimps of the past. It really does seem like he’s got some major problems right now with the high heater in particular

[IheartLA]

Hitting under .100 and K’ing almost half his at bats so far in June