Tear it down

[Jason]

1 minute ago, Ron Mexico said:

Arte will not trade Ohtani he is going to let him walk away to the Dodgers and fuck us Angel fans  in the end . 

I don’t think so as I bet there are enough real baseball folks in the org than can talk some sense into him 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

I don’t think so as I bet there are enough real baseball folks in the org than can talk some sense into him 

Yep. But we will see. 

[Chico]

With this loss, the Angels fall to 30-30. Houston is 35-23 and Texas is 37-20. I think the Angels have fallen too far behind, can't stack enough wins together to catch up and don't play well against the division leaders Texas and Houston. .500 or just above is not good enough this year. Again, til Arte leaves, the Angels are toast. If it were me, I'd trade Ohtani, Rendon and Trout and get a good bounty. Start with pitching first.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Chico said:

With this loss, the Angels fall to 30-30. Houston is 35-23 and Texas is 37-20. I think the Angels have fallen too far behind, can't stack enough wins together to catch up and don't play well against the division leaders Texas and Houston. .500 or just above is not good enough this year. Again, til Arte leaves, the Angels are toast. If it were me, I'd rade Ohtani, Rendon and Trout and get a good bounty. Start with pitching first.

You aren’t getting a bounty trading those three. With Ohtani you might get two top 100 prospects, maybe. Trout and Rendon you get salary relief.  Maybe you get a top 100 prospect for Trout and his contract. 

[Justin]

1 minute ago, Chico said:

If it were me, I'd trade Ohtani, Rendon and Trout and get a good bounty. Start with pitching first.

What kind of bounty do you expect for Rendon and Trout? 

[Chico]

9 minutes ago, Justin said:

What kind of bounty do you expect for Rendon and Trout? 

For Rendon, nothing. For Trout, something fitting, I'm not sure. It might be too late to trade Trout. The era of paying one or two people 500 million dollars has got to end for the Angels. This formula does not work. Go back to 2002. The Angels didn't have any of these supposed superstars. Just a bunch of guys who could pitch and string hits together.

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Chico said:

For Rendon, nothing. For Trout, something fitting, I'm not sure. It might be too late to trade Trout. The era of paying one or two people 500 million dollars has got to end for the Angels. This formula does not work. Go back to 2002. The Angels didn't have any of these supposed superstars. Just a bunch of guys who could pitch and string hits together.

Trout is starting to show decline so there's no way someone takes that contract now 

[UndertheHalo]

It’s entirely too soon to run up the white flag.  We are entering a critical time though. 

[Taylor]

This team hasn't been good in almost a decade. Nothing is going to change unless the organization radically changes.

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

It’s entirely too soon to run up the white flag.  We are entering a critical time though. 

Lousy pitching, lousy defense, Rendon hurt again, Trout on the decline and Ohtani not playing as well, Arte refusing to sell. It’s not happening this season 

[Docwaukee]

Starting pitching has hurt this team a fair amount.  The pen and offense have been untimely.  The pen because of a lack of talent and poor construction and the offense because of who knows why but mostly due to poor performance that couldn't have been expected.  

This team is underachieving in so many ways.  A different player or collection of players doing so every other night.  With the collective result as a major disappointment ending in frustration and a huge missed opportunity so far.  

It's stupid to say, but it feels like they're trying not to lose instead of just going out there and doing what they're all capable of.  

[gurn67]

As if this doesn't EVERY SINGLE YEAR!!! During the Scioscia years they got off to a lot of slow starts, but then would usually start playing well sometime during May. It doesn't happen anymore. It's not going to happen this year either. This team has developed a losing culture. Blow it up. I'd rather see a bunch of kids out there playing their hearts out, then losing every year with a bunch of guys who put up nice stats, but can't win. I don't care what the stats way, these guys aren't winners. They just aren't. Teams like the Rays, Royals, A's, etc...have fielded championship caliber teams during this stretch with a small fraction of the Angels' payroll. This is going to be the 8th season in a row playing meaningless games in September.

The Angels stunk, but were building a stockpile of young talented players before the glory years of 2002-2010

The Braves did the same thing not that long ago

The Astros did the same thing

The Rangers are doing it now

 

60 games in

2023 8.5 games back

2022 9 gb

2021 6.5 gb

2020 10 gb

2019 11.5 gb

2018 5.5 gb

2017 13.5 gb

2016 11 gb

2015 3.5 gb

2014 5.5 gb

2013 11 gb

2012 3.5 gb

[Docwaukee]

34 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You aren’t getting a bounty trading those three. With Ohtani you might get two top 100 prospects, maybe. Trout and Rendon you get salary relief.  Maybe you get a top 100 prospect for Trout and his contract. 

I think you're underestimating what Ohtani could get you in trade.  For the same reason the Halos would want to not trade him, another team would want to have him in house and have first crack at keeping him.  There's going to be a major bidding war if he becomes available.  

[Stradling]

14 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I think you're underestimating what Ohtani could get you in trade.  For the same reason the Halos would want to not trade him, another team would want to have him in house and have first crack at keeping him.  There's going to be a major bidding war if he becomes available.  

Look at rentals lately. Maybe you get a bounty if you get Baltimore involved but they were good last year and had money to spend and didn’t. So I don’t expect them to give up pieces for Ohtani. 

[Jason]

15 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I think you're underestimating what Ohtani could get you in trade.  For the same reason the Halos would want to not trade him, another team would want to have him in house and have first crack at keeping him.  There's going to be a major bidding war if he becomes available.  

I would love to see the Angels on that end of the bidding war. They really could build their future by doing so

[Reveille1984]

Two top 100 prospects is underselling an Ohtani trade? I'd take that as a centerpiece for Shohei any day of the week.  We'd likely get some major league talent coming back as well, but that's pretty obvious if we're moving him.

I think people forget how few actual contenders have multiple top 100 guys in their farm system they're willing to move (or at all).  The only two I can think of off the top of my head are the Dodgers & Orioles (Orioles have EIGHT in the top 100, holy sh*&), and I don't see Baltimore making that type of move.  Some other teams have a couple of guys, but they're more towards the bottom 100 than top.

 

 

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Second Base said:

I actually agree, but also understand it'll never happen while Arte owns the team. But I admit, if they did, it would be incredible deadline. The package you could get for guys like Ohtani, Ward, Renfroe, Urshela, Drury could do things in the future. 

Do not forget Carlos Estevez, Matt Moore. Maybe team would take Tyler Anderson in a package deal. 

[gurn67]

I don't think Arte would trade him to the Dodgers. The Mets owner has shown he'll pay anything to get the players he wants, and the Mets have a solid farm system, so maybe there's a match there. However, maybe he figures he can just offer him the Moon in the off-season and not have to give up any prospects.

[Angels 1961]

3 minutes ago, Reveille1984 said:

Two top 100 prospects is underselling an Ohtani trade? I'd take that as a centerpiece for Shohei any day of the week.  We'd likely get some major league talent coming back as well, but that's pretty obvious if we're moving him.

I think people forget how few actual contenders have multiple top 100 guys in their farm system they're willing to move (or at all).  The only two I can think of off the top of my head are the Dodgers & Orioles (Orioles have EIGHT in the top 100, holy sh*&), and I don't see Baltimore making that type of move.  Some other teams have a couple of guys, but they're more towards the bottom 100 than top.

 

 

I think some teams would give you talent on current 26 man roster.

[Angels 1961]

1 minute ago, gurn67 said:

I don't think Arte would trade him to the Dodgers. The Mets owner has shown he'll pay anything to get the players he wants, and the Mets have a solid farm system, so maybe there's a match there. However, maybe he figures he can just offer him the Moon in the off-season and not have to give up any prospects.

Arte does not like Cohen. He voted against him being an owner.

[Angels 1961]

26 minutes ago, gurn67 said:

As if this doesn't EVERY SINGLE YEAR!!! During the Scioscia years they got off to a lot of slow starts, but then would usually start playing well sometime during May. It doesn't happen anymore. It's not going to happen this year either. This team has developed a losing culture. Blow it up. I'd rather see a bunch of kids out there playing their hearts out, then losing every year with a bunch of guys who put up nice stats, but can't win. I don't care what the stats way, these guys aren't winners. They just aren't. Teams like the Rays, Royals, A's, etc...have fielded championship caliber teams during this stretch with a small fraction of the Angels' payroll. This is going to be the 8th season in a row playing meaningless games in September.

The Angels stunk, but were building a stockpile of young talented players before the glory years of 2002-2010

The Braves did the same thing not that long ago

The Astros did the same thing

The Rangers are doing it now

 

60 games in

2023 8.5 games back

2022 9 gb

2021 6.5 gb

2020 10 gb

2019 11.5 gb

2018 5.5 gb

2017 13.5 gb

2016 11 gb

2015 3.5 gb

2014 5.5 gb

2013 11 gb

2012 3.5 gb

It took Rangers 2 years.

[AngelsFaninGA]

42 minutes ago, Taylor said:

This team hasn't been good in almost a century. Nothing is going to change unless the organization radically changes.

Aka Arte kicking the bucket.

Re-signing Ohtani will make no difference (though it would be great to be able to continue rooting for him as an Angel)

[Stradling]

23 minutes ago, Reveille1984 said:

Two top 100 prospects is underselling an Ohtani trade? I'd take that as a centerpiece for Shohei any day of the week.  We'd likely get some major league talent coming back as well, but that's pretty obvious if we're moving him.

I think people forget how few actual contenders have multiple top 100 guys in their farm system they're willing to move (or at all).  The only two I can think of off the top of my head are the Dodgers & Orioles (Orioles have EIGHT in the top 100, holy sh*&), and I don't see Baltimore making that type of move.  Some other teams have a couple of guys, but they're more towards the bottom 100 than top.

 

 

But any team trading for him probably aren’t giving you major league talent because they are making a run at the pennant. If by major league talent you mean a pending free agent, then maybe. I heard someone saying the Dodgers would give up Bobby Miller and Gavin Lux, which I highly doubt.  
If the Angels were in contention are you giving up Neto and O’Hoppe for Ohtani?  

[gurn67]

28 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Arte does not like Cohen. He voted against him being an owner.

I don't know if he doesn't like him. That may just be due to the fact that he knew Cohen was willing to spend crazy money and drive up everyone's payrolls.

[fan_since79]

New owner.

New manager.

(Maybe) new GM.

Better coaches.

Better pitching all around.

Better fundamental baseball.

Start from there and maybe the postseason won't be decades away.

What we have now is a mess.