Tear it down

[Slegnaac]

Ohtani is calling his own pitches.

Neither Thaiss or Wallach are going to be shaking him off.

I  do agree that Ohtani has not been as efficient with his pitches recently.   He needs to be able to get through 7 innings, 21 outs at the 100 pitch mark.  That is averaging just under 5 pitches per out.

[Chuck]

On 6/5/2023 at 8:19 AM, Inside Pitch said:

I've spent most of the last ten days out on the water not paying attention to real life stuff -- much less baseball.  I haven't watched them play much, and when I have it's been mostly uninspiring, boring baseball that basically had me take the boat back out.   

So, having gone on record of being rather ignorant of the current flow of things other than what any idiot could pull from reading box scores, I kind of like the build of the team currently, the Moore injury IMO being the biggest setback but I have been watching and waiting for Soriano to get the call -- Yovan too, but I think they'll ride out the Loup train for a bit since his predictive data has been trending up even if it's maybe not translated in games (again, haven't him pitch).  

MIke Trout's predictive stuff has all moved north the last ten days, Griffin Canning has changed where he throws his FB of late -- mostly using it as a chase pitch out above the zone, I think someone may have figured something out usage wise.  Barria is sort of cementing his status as the most underrated player on the team.    Gio Urshela has been more like Gio Urshela and less like peak level David Fletcher of late which has also been good.  Mickey Moniak's fluke streak appears to be over and I wouldn't be surprised to see them move him back to AAA if they didn't have to open up a roster spot for whoever they would recall in his place.

I know a lot of people are jumping off ledges right now and can't blame anyone but I pointed to the pitching they would be facing starting with the Miami series and pretty much hinted that despite the teams they would be facing the arms in particular could prove difficult -- they ultimately did.

The biggest issue the last ten days has been the same issue that's been dogging them all season -- the SP, particularly the front half of it. 

Ohtani has been kind of dogshit on the mound.  Going back to April 26th, he's managed an ERA over 5.00 in 7 starts and it's not like he's been unlucky or the defense has let him down, his FIP is right in line with his ERA -- he's kind of been the anti-Griffin in that I think it's pitch usage that's hurting him.  Maybe have whoever has been calling Canning's pitches do the same for Ohtani.

Sandoval's stretch of meh goes back even further to his April 20th start -- but he's been far more up and down than Ohtani has in his performances and his predictive data has been better.  He has seemingly done this good start bad start thing for nearly two months -- that needs to get fixed.

Detmers is likely the guy that's caught the most flak and he's actually the guy that in theory has pitched best -- he's seen his BaBip come in over .400 going back to April 23, allowing an ERA near 5.50 over that span but an FIP under 3.50.   Most of the damage against him has been batting average driven, he's only allowed 3 HRs over that span and he's limited his walks while at the same time generating a ton of his own outs.  But if there is any guy that could benefit from the use of an opener on the staff it's Detmers -- he's 23 and very much a 5 inning guy right now, in part because when he's doing well he's generating a lot of Ks and thus far in his career that's also meant using a ton of pitches.   He's a work in progress, people should probably be patient with him -- they won't be but whatever.

Anderson is Anderson -- team needs to hope his results come in closer to his FIP.  He's posted a bad ERA all season and it's earned but his FIP in May was 4.36.  They need him to be a filler type SP that gives them 6 innings because there is a ton of volatility with their younger arms.

Really while everyone has been at times obsessing over Mike Trout's bad 14 games, the bullpen blowups and anything and everything Arte the problem all season has been the rotation.  If they don't get that squared away they'll be selling in 5-6 weeks.  The offense consistently having to start from behind and the pen rarely having any sort of a cushion to work basically all goes back to the issues in the rotation.

Fix that, the team sorts itself out..   I'm going back out on the water F this crap.

This is so spot on. Great post, @Inside Pitch

[Blarg]

On 6/5/2023 at 6:19 AM, Inside Pitch said:

I'm going back out on the water F this crap.

[UndertheHalo]

Tear it down cancelled for tonight. 

[m0nkey]

Build it back up, 3 in a row baby

[full circle]

They’re playing the Cubs. 

[REDneck]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

This is the leader that the team needs!

[REDneck]

57 minutes ago, full circle said:

They’re playing the Cubs. 

Soooooo

[NrM]

1 hour ago, m0nkey said:

Build it back up, 3 in a row baby

we so back baby!

[Lou]

On 6/3/2023 at 4:46 PM, NrM said:

K when the angels decide not to trade Ohtani and let him go for nothing. GOOD FUCKING LUCK DEFENDING THAT. 

WE WILL BE A TEAM OF SHITTY JOURNEYMEN AND MIKE TROUT. SHITTY FARMSYSTEM SHITTY ORG LITERALLY NOTHING. NO FUCKING TALENT..

 

LMAO IM DONE. 

 

On 6/3/2023 at 4:52 PM, Stradling said:

Gotta love when people declare they are leaving then don’t. They want attention, you give them attention and they are still mad. It’s funny. 

 

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, full circle said:

They’re playing the Cubs. 

Yes. To the best of my knowledge we have to play them.

[Slegnaac]

8 hours ago, full circle said:

They’re playing the Cubs. 

A team that they should be beating up.  That's what good team do.

[Inside Pitch]

9 hours ago, full circle said:

They’re playing the Cubs. 

They were playing the defending WS Champions and faced the top of their rotation when they went 1-3 last week -- is this how it works or does it only matter when it's a bad team?

[full circle]

Is it really that difficult to grasp a point? To be a good team, eventually you have to show you can beat another good team.  If the discussion is about whether to tear the team down or not, beating the cubs doesn’t do much to show they can compete with top teams.  

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, full circle said:

Is it really that difficult to grasp a point? To be a good team, eventually you have to show you can beat another good team.  If the discussion is about whether to tear the team down or not, beating the cubs doesn’t do much to show they can compete with top teams.  

Is it a difficult concept to grasp that they also have to beat the bad teams?  
Feel free to come back when they play only “the good teams” so you can spread your misery then.  

[Inside Pitch]

58 minutes ago, full circle said:

Is it really that difficult to grasp a point? To be a good team, eventually you have to show you can beat another good team.  If the discussion is about whether to tear the team down or not, beating the cubs doesn’t do much to show they can compete with top teams.  

Define compete.  

Opponent
Split	W	L	RS	RA	W-L%
BAL	2	2	19	20	.500
BOS	4	3	29	24	.571
CHC	2	0	13	6	1.000
CHW	2	1	21	16	.667
CLE	1	2	14	16	.333
HOU	2	5	23	33	.286
KCR	2	1	14	14	.667
MIA	0	3	7	16	.000
MIL	1	2	9	9	.333
MIN	2	1	11	12	.667
NYY	1	2	10	14	.333
OAK	5	2	54	27	.714
SEA	2	1	13	17	.667
STL	3	0	22	12	1.000
TEX	1	2	14	30	.333
TOR	1	2	23	21	.333
WSN	2	1	9	8	.66

I'm not happy with the results either, it's been super annoying watching them find ways to lose and seeing the guys they are counting on, fail.  But other than the Houston and Texas series they have in fact competed .. The Miami series was horseshit too but not sure you think of them as a good team -- I do and hinted that their pitching could make for a problematic match up, my reasoning had everything to do with actual performance and not W/L records.

I'd argue the make up of the bullpen is better now than it was a month ago.  I'd argue the offense has in some ways underperformed and yet still managed to be above league average (108 OPS+).  Not sure they can realistically do anything to improve the SP -- but they have at least made enough internal changes to an area of weakness that an argument can be made that they could compete and should try to find external help.

I've not been one of the homers predicting the playoffs the last few seasons -- but it's been 60+ games, the rotation has been shit and has shown it can be better.  They haven't even played all the AL teams yet.  Not saying they WILL make a run but they could -- and that's not something that could have realistically been said before this season.

 

[Inside Pitch]

8 hours ago, Stradling said:

Is it a difficult concept to grasp that they also have to beat the bad teams?  
Feel free to come back when they play only “the good teams” so you can spread your misery then.  

He's not wrong, teams DO need to show that can compete/beat quality teams.  The question is whether or not people believe they have enough talent to do so.  Maybe he thinks they don't -- I think they do and have shown they can compete even as they have lost some series -- many times due to self inflected damage.

The starters need to do better -- time and again this season we have seen them string together some wins then the SP completely craters for the next few days and they completely tank.  If the SP cant get right in the next four weeks I'm for a full sell off of every pending FA including Ohtani..  If they think they can get better for him than they would with whatever compensation picks they could get for him in the draft.  They won't EVER get what he's worth, they simply need to weigh what they could get .vs what they might get in the draft. 

[PattyD22]

I realize the Angels shit away some games early in the season for a myriad of reasons, but lately, there has been less of that happening.  The defense and the pen have been playing better lately.  Of course, let’s hope that continues against the better teams, which the Angels need to show.

I’d also add that the Angels currently rank 2nd in come from behind wins with 19.  That’s way better than in previous years where the Angels literally rolled over and died when they trailed after 7.  That’s competing, in my eyes.

The parts are there.  The bullpen is performing much better, hopefully Rendon can stay healthy, and we need guys like Detmers (who has had some really tough luck), Sandoval, and Canning to keep progressing.

I know that’s a lot to ask, but it starts by beating the teams you need to beat, and hopefully that translates into beating the better teams.  Winning really is contagious, at least from a mental standpoint.

 

[Vlad27Trout27]

Nah bro. We're not not tearing anything up! Instead we're adding things! 

[stormngt]

4 hours ago, full circle said:

Is it really that difficult to grasp a point? To be a good team, eventually you have to show you can beat another good team.  If the discussion is about whether to tear the team down or not, beating the cubs doesn’t do much to show they can compete with top teams.  

Is the Angels elimination number still 96?

[Angels 1961]

13 hours ago, Lou said:

 

 

Some people do not know how to self-ban. If anyone wants me to show them how I will.

[Stradling]

It sucks we can’t enjoy this sweep since the Cubs aren’t “a good team”. 

[Swordsman78]

A 4 game sweep is difficult against any major league team.

The 19 20 come from behind wins is a statement metric.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Swordsman78

[UndertheHalo]

Tear down cancellation extended one more day!

[Farmbuildingfan]

29 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It sucks we can’t enjoy this sweep since the Cubs aren’t “a good team”. 

I enjoy the sweep a lot. My enjoyment is one day at a time, so what I enjoy most tonight is NOT being one of the eight AL teams below .500.