Reid Detmers

[WicketMaiden]

I've seen a lot of comments castigating Detmers' performances this year and posing the idea that the guy just isn't good enough. I have to ask, what is wrong with you people?

Reid Detmers is just 23 years old and has started a sum total of 55 games in professional baseball. That includes all his minors starts and comes out to 268 innings in total. Gerrit Cole pitched 200 innings in the minors before even being called up, Reid pitched just 68.

Give the guy a break and give him time to learn his trade. He is far from the finished article and with the stuff he has, once the penny drops for him he's got a great chance of becoming a damn fine pitcher.

[Halo in Chicago]

I think he shows the potential to be good enough, but he has an ERA over 5, can't go deep into the game and is good for one blow-up inning per outing right now. He is hitting way too much of the strike zone w 2 strikes (not a unique issue for the Angels). I personally am frustrated in that I thought he had "figured it out" the second half of last year. I was hoping he was a #3 starter and he looks more like a #5 right now to me. Hopefully he can get on track soon. Last night looked promising, but then he fell apart with all of the 2 strike meatballs.

[oldguy]

1 hour ago, Halo in Chicago said:

I think he shows the potential to be good enough, but he has an ERA over 5, can't go deep into the game and is good for one blow-up inning per outing right now. He is hitting way too much of the strike zone w 2 strikes (not a unique issue for the Angels). I personally am frustrated in that I thought he had "figured it out" the second half of last year. I was hoping he was a #3 starter and he looks more like a #5 right now to me. Hopefully he can get on track soon. Last night looked promising, but then he fell apart with all of the 2 strike meatballs.

I was listening on the radio, Terry Smith mentioned that opponents are hitting .529 against Detmers the third time through the order.  FIVE TWENTY NINE!!!  I couldn't hit that in my slo-pitch softball league!!!

[Halo in Chicago]

Quote

13 minutes ago, oldguy said:

I was listening on the radio, Terry Smith mentioned that opponents are hitting .529 against Detmers the third time through the order.  FIVE TWENTY NINE!!!  I couldn't hit that in my slo-pitch softball league!!!

Wow - that's nuts. They mentioned on TV he struggled the third time through, but I didn't realize to that degree.

[Dtwncbad]

2 hours ago, WicketMaiden said:

 

I've seen a lot of comments castigating Detmers' performances this year and posing the idea that the guy just isn't good enough RIGHT NOW.

 

Fixed it.  Maybe he should be in the minors logging innings and developing. . .not at the expense of major league wins and losses, like Gerrit Cole did.

[Angels 1961]

3 hours ago, WicketMaiden said:

I've seen a lot of comments castigating Detmers' performances this year and posing the idea that the guy just isn't good enough. I have to ask, what is wrong with you people?

Reid Detmers is just 23 years old and has started a sum total of 55 games in professional baseball. That includes all his minors starts and comes out to 268 innings in total. Gerrit Cole pitched 200 innings in the minors before even being called up, Reid pitched just 68.

Give the guy a break and give him time to learn his trade. He is far from the finished article and with the stuff he has, once the penny drops for him he's got a great chance of becoming a damn fine pitcher.

i agree

[totdprods]

If you went back and looked at some of the Angels best starting pitchers - Weaver, Washburn, Lackey, Saunders, etc. - they've almost all had a 2nd/3rd year where they "disappointed" or didn't quite live up to what was expected before going on a good run. 

Detmers is in that phase now. He's learning how to be a good big-league pitcher and how to make adjustments as teams make adjustments to him. Needs to be at the MLB level. I'd be open to him getting a tune-up in SLC for a couple starts if there is something specific for him to work on, and if there was an arm was at the ready to displace him, but until then no real need. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by totdprods

[Second Base]

Hills and valleys. The final product figures to be a solid #3-4 starter, but if you live and die by every start, or even on a month to month basis, you're going to alternate between ace and demotion. 

[Jason]

3 hours ago, WicketMaiden said:

I've seen a lot of comments castigating Detmers' performances this year and posing the idea that the guy just isn't good enough. I have to ask, what is wrong with you people?

Reid Detmers is just 23 years old and has started a sum total of 55 games in professional baseball. That includes all his minors starts and comes out to 268 innings in total. Gerrit Cole pitched 200 innings in the minors before even being called up, Reid pitched just 68.

Give the guy a break and give him time to learn his trade. He is far from the finished article and with the stuff he has, once the penny drops for him he's got a great chance of becoming a damn fine pitcher.

This is a good assessment but this is a results based business. Right now he is losing and making things difficult for the team to win. The status quo with him can’t stay the same until he figures out how to pitch at the major league level. It is possible that he may excel out of the pen as opposed to being a starter. They need great arms there too. 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, oldguy said:

I was listening on the radio, Terry Smith mentioned that opponents are hitting .529 against Detmers the third time through the order.  FIVE TWENTY NINE!!!  I couldn't hit that in my slo-pitch softball league!!!

Yep and Langston’s point was it wasn’t a small sample size either. It’s a legit problem and concern 

[Halo in Chicago]

“Opposing batters have hit .455 (10-for-22) against him on 0-2 pitches this season, picking up two more 0-2 hits in the fifth inning. With two strikes, batters are hitting .259 against him (30-for-116). The MLB league average on 0-2 counts entering the day was .151, while batters are collectively hitting .171 with two strikes.”

[rottiesworld]

I say he would be a good reliever and can get some innings in but not have to got through a line up  but maybe once

[Angel Oracle]

His is a weird mix.

Does he sometimes struggle to trust his stuff, or maybe overthrow, in 2 strike counts?

Had a great second half in 2022, yet seems to struggle in first halves?

I guess the proof will be in how he does the rest of the season?

[Angelsfan1984]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

If you went back and looked at some of the Angels best starting pitchers - Weaver, Washburn, Lackey, Saunders, etc. - they've almost all had a 2nd/3rd year where they "disappointed" or didn't quite live up to what was expected before going on a good run. 

Detmers is in that phase now. He's learning how to be a good big-league pitcher and how to make adjustments as teams make adjustments to him. Needs to be at the MLB level. I'd be open to him getting a tune-up in SLC for a couple starts if there is something specific for him to work on, and if there was an arm was at the ready to displace him, but until then no real need. 

Weaver seemed to be good right out of the gate. Ultimately, these pitchers need time to adjust. This need for instant gratification is very millenial of all the boomers on this site.

[totdprods]

25 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Weaver seemed to be good right out of the gate. Ultimately, these pitchers need time to adjust. This need for instant gratification is very millenial of all the boomers on this site.

He was great out of the gate, then had a couple seasons of growing pains - he definitely wasn’t bad, but he was prone to having a big inning and difficulty going deep into the games, then it all clicked and he was great for several seasons.

Reid is in the exact same spot now. Growing pains. Figuring out how to balance striking guys out and pitching to contact without hitting 100 pitches in the fifth, how to avoid the big inning, etc…it’s just working around the nuances of MLB hitters at this point and knowing how to approach certain situations. The stuff is there.

I’ll go so far to say he’ll be around a legit, consistent #1 or #2 in 2024.

Edited June 2, 2023 by totdprods

[Angelsfan1984]

33 minutes ago, totdprods said:

He was great out of the gate, then had a couple seasons of growing pains - he definitely wasn’t bad, but he was prone to having a big inning and difficulty going deep into the games, then it all clicked and he was great for several seasons.

Reid is in the exact same spot now. Growing pains. Figuring out how to balance striking guys out and pitching to contact without hitting 100 pitches in the fifth, how to avoid the big inning, etc…it’s just working around the nuances of MLB hitters at this point and knowing how to approach certain situations. The stuff is there.

I’ll go so far to say he’ll be around a legit, consistent #1 or #2 in 2024.

Its normal for guys to come up and do what he's doing. People are just correlating the angels struggles to Ohtani leaving, which ultimately creates a non sensical expectation based purely out of fear. He's doing exactly what you would expect a 23 year old to come in and do. Same with Neto, Bachman and Joyce. I really do like the prospective future of this team. Unfortunately its taking place at a very odd time with 2 generational players on clocks. I can see a world where they either trade Ohtani or let him walk and all of a sudden these guys begin playing very well given the lack of pressure being put on them.

[WicketMaiden]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

He was great out of the gate, then had a couple seasons of growing pains - he definitely wasn’t bad, but he was prone to having a big inning and difficulty going deep into the games, then it all clicked and he was great for several seasons.

Reid is in the exact same spot now. Growing pains. Figuring out how to balance striking guys out and pitching to contact without hitting 100 pitches in the fifth, how to avoid the big inning, etc…it’s just working around the nuances of MLB hitters at this point and knowing how to approach certain situations. The stuff is there.

I’ll go so far to say he’ll be around a legit, consistent #1 or #2 in 2024.

Totally agree (apart from the 1 or 2 bit, and I hope I'm wrong, but a solid number 3 for me). Kershaw pitched 327 innings before his breakout season; Gerrit Cole 477; John Lackey had only 55 minors innings before his 100 inning 127era+ rookie season, but then had two years and 400 innings of sub 100 era+ before it clicked for him. There are plenty of good pitchers out there with similar development cyles.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, WicketMaiden said:

Totally agree (apart from the 1 or 2 bit, and I hope I'm wrong, but a solid number 3 for me). Kershaw pitched 327 innings before his breakout season; Gerrit Cole 477; John Lackey had only 55 minors innings before his 100 inning 127era+ rookie season, but then had two years and 400 innings of sub 100 era+ before it clicked for him. There are plenty of good pitchers out there with similar development cyles.

Exactamente. His development cycle is right in line with that. 

I think Reid is gonna be pretty good. His stuff is improving too…more velocity, nice slider, killer curve…the arsenal is there to be a really good frontline guy.

Edited June 2, 2023 by totdprods

[WicketMaiden]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

I guess the proof will be in how he does the rest of the season?

Maybe, maybe not. None of us can say. He might have it all worked out in the next start, but he's much more likely to really break out next season or the season after that. It is incredibly difficult to be good at Major League Baseball isn't it? He is pitching to elite human beings who pretty much all have far more experience than he does, so who knows how long it will take for him to adjust to that. The coaches could maybe help him out by pulling him a little earlier now and again, but then again he's got to take his lumps as part of his learning curve, so when is a good time if not now? AAA isn't the answer because it just isn't the same, apples, oranges etc.

[Vlad27Trout27]

Honestly I feel like he falls in love with the FB and slider combo to much.Last time I checked, he had 40% usage rate on the FB and 40% rate on the slider. so 80% of his stuff is the hard stuff and hitter whill adjust. let's also remember that he's was drafted due to the curve and he needs to start using it more. For me detmers has 3 pitches that are above average or better and a change that is average and he needs to start using all four pitches! 

[Docwaukee]

He's got a .377 BABIP against him.  Fair amount of hard contact but there's still a big chunk of bad luck in there.  Or poor sequencing.  Which I think a lot of this is.  His FB velo is up quite a bit but it's been a far less effective pitch.  I feel like he's sacrificing location for velo.  His change has become largely ineffective.  He's throwing the 'sweeper' more.  

It also appears that he's changed his release point.  maybe to accommodate that sweeper?

to me, that's a pretty big deal.  you kinda have to relearn when certain pitches are effective in certain situations when you do that.  

so yah.  growing pains and bad luck.  

[drpiranha]

I think his problem is psychological. I think his stuff is great. The problem started with his fantastic spring and the interview comment about what he wanted for this season. He said he wanted to win 20 games. HUGE MISTAKE!!!

He should have said something like he wanted to pitch effectively and help his team get to the playoffs. His comments put a lot of unnecessary pressure on him. In the early season he was pulled from a couple of games with runners on base and the bullpen let all of them score, which elevated his ERA. With the bullpen issues the 1st month, I think he put even more pressure on himself to go deeper in games. He tries to nibble corners on 0-2 instead of trying to get the player to chase because he feels he needs to keep his pitch count down.

Someone like Sandoval always shows his emotion when a play is not made behind him. Detmers, on the other hand, is rather stoic and shows no emotion, which means he could be internalizing it and it's effecting his performance. I think, once he can get his 1st win, he will relax and be OK.

I have no knowledge of any of this. These are just my observations.

Edited June 4, 2023 by drpiranha
changed necessary to unnecessary

[T-angel]

It looked to me the couple of batters in the last Astros game who got hits on 0-2 counts, hit pitches that were way too good for an 0-2 pitch. I can't remember if all the other times he has given up hits this year while ahead on the count were like this as well. However, I would like to see him brush some of these batters back with some high inside stuff to get them uncomfortable on 0-2 counts. What could it hurt since he's way ahead anyways? Hell, I would almost automatically do this every time I am 0-2. 

Also, he might not be fooling anyone on 0-2 because he needs to do a better job with pitch tunneling. 

" The idea is that two different pitches fly down the same trajectory long enough to look nearly identical through the point when a hitter must decide whether, or not, to swing. If pitches thrown back to back travel down this same “tunnel” long enough, a hitter won’t be able to tell them apart until it’s too late."

[Angelsjunky]

That 0-2 count BA is rather telling. But so too is his increased velocity. Thankfully the 0-2 count can be addressed.

I think it is going to all come together for him - whether later this year or next. But assuming Ohtani's gone and the Angels don't sign an ace, I think he'll be their best starter next year.

As I said elsewhere, I'm more worried about Sandoval, whose velocity is going down - both from last year, but also from earlier this year. Something might be wrong.

[AngelsLakersFan]

23 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

He's got a .377 BABIP against him.  Fair amount of hard contact but there's still a big chunk of bad luck in there.  Or poor sequencing.  Which I think a lot of this is.  His FB velo is up quite a bit but it's been a far less effective pitch.  I feel like he's sacrificing location for velo.  His change has become largely ineffective.  He's throwing the 'sweeper' more.  

It also appears that he's changed his release point.  maybe to accommodate that sweeper?

to me, that's a pretty big deal.  you kinda have to relearn when certain pitches are effective in certain situations when you do that.  

so yah.  growing pains and bad luck.  

Well here it is right here.

This is actually a really great improvement in theory, and I'm guessing this is largely where the sweeper trend comes from. The release point of the slider determines the trade off between horizontal and vertical break. He's tunneling his pitches way better but he's probably giving up some depth and break. If we look at his pitch usage with two strikes I'm sure we will find the culprit, and I bet the run value on that pitch will be really ugly.

He's going to have to find a new out pitch, become less predictable in his pitch selection (I have no idea if he is predictable currently), or go back to his old release point.