Now what? What moves would you like to see them make.

[Pancake Bear]

19 minutes ago, OhtaniSan said:

If we're only doing 1yr deals for OF, i'd think Conforto would be in play too. $$$ wise, I'd guess Conforto gets 1yr/15-20mil, Bellinger gets 1yr/10-15, Gallo gets 1yr/5-8mil.

Of the 3, i would be most excited about Conforto. Although, I'd be content with a Bellinger signing. He has a high floor with offensive upside that could still get tapped into as he enters his prime years. Screw Gallo. 

Would still prefer Haniger, Nimmo, or Benitendi overall though.

Conforto is an interesting one. He's really overplayed his hand the last few years and lost himself a ton of money through bad decisions.

[Warfarin]

3 hours ago, OhtaniSan said:

If we're only doing 1yr deals for OF, i'd think Conforto would be in play too. $$$ wise, I'd guess Conforto gets 1yr/15-20mil, Bellinger gets 1yr/10-15, Gallo gets 1yr/5-8mil.

Of the 3, i would be most excited about Conforto. Although, I'd be content with a Bellinger signing. He has a high floor with offensive upside that could still get tapped into as he enters his prime years. Screw Gallo. 

Would still prefer Haniger, Nimmo, or Benitendi overall though.

He has a high floor if he is allowed to play CF.  I think he's a poor fit for us because if we put him in LF (or RF), a lot of his defensive value is lost, and his offense can be downright awful.

There are better fits for Bellinger (and us), so I'd punt on him.  

[BTH]

On 11/19/2022 at 8:10 PM, Trendon said:

Maybe that’s flipping someone like Silseth, Canning, or Junk for an outfielder with good underlying exit velocities and metrics.

Well, they were able to flip Junk (and 2 other pitchers) for a proven outfield with good exit velocities and metrics.

Not exactly what I said, but I figured they might look to deal from their minor league pitching depth.

[Docwaukee]

Adam Frazier might be a nice util option for about 5-6m per year.  Really good defender at several positions.  Probably not a perry guy though because of crappy exit velos.  probably wouldn't make the crowd here too happy, but I wouldn't be disappointed if that's all we did in the MIF

[BTH]

39 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

Adam Frazier might be a nice util option for about 5-6m per year.  Really good defender at several positions.  Probably not a perry guy though because of crappy exit velos.  probably wouldn't make the crowd here too happy, but I wouldn't be disappointed if that's all we did in the MIF

Matt Duffy and the 2021-2022 David Fletcher have soured my taste for high contact, no power infielders.

But he’s a decent defender which makes him more palatable than Duffy as long as he’s in a utility role. And we know the team needs as much depth as it can get.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Trendon

[Pancake Bear]

Rosenthal on the Angels' off-season so far:

https://theathletic.com/3926143/2022/11/23/angels-trade-renfroe-analysis/?source=user_shared_article

For those who don't subscribe, here are the highlights:

"The Angels’ current $191.2 million payroll would set a franchise record for the third straight season — and rest assured, they’re not finished yet."

"The Angels still need a shortstop, and even with Moreno back in spending mode, it seems unlikely they will play on one of the Big Four — Trea Turner, Carlos Correa, Xander Bogaerts, Dansby Swanson. Could they trade for the White Sox’s Tim Anderson? The Guardians’ Amed Rosario? The Yankees’ Isiah Kiner-Falefa? Rosario and Kiner-Falefa, like Urshela and Renfroe, are entering their walk years."

"The bullpen is another area Minasian likely will try to improve."

Takeaways:

For whatever reason, Moreno is pushing the payroll. Rosenthal is as plugged in as anyone and he says they're still looking for a shortstop and stability in the pen.

I find that "it seems unlikely they will play on one of the Big Four" intriguing. He doesn't categorically eliminate the possibility. I doubt they will also, but the lack of certainty feels surprising to me, but I'm probably reading to much into it. 

[Pancake Bear]

It's also worth noting the continuing trend of short term deals. Minasian got rid of the long term contract of Raisel, and his only deal more than this season was Anderson (a mere $13m for each of the following two seasons).

I know that isn't a new insight, but it makes me wonder how much of this mild spending spree, as it appears to date, is Moreno wanting one last shot and pushing the payroll just a bit while still avoiding the big expenditure due new ownership wanting to avoid too much on the books when they take over. If Minasian were to pursue a bigger contract that extended over multiple years, would he need to get approval from potential buyers?

I guess we'll have a better sense of where things stand in a few weeks as we get through the Winter Meetings.

[aznhockeyguy]

7 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

It's also worth noting the continuing trend of short term deals. Minasian got rid of the long term contract of Raisel, and his only deal more than this season was Anderson (a mere $13m for each of the following two seasons).

I know that isn't a new insight, but it makes me wonder how much of this mild spending spree, as it appears to date, is Moreno wanting one last shot and pushing the payroll just a bit while still avoiding the big expenditure due new ownership wanting to avoid too much on the books when they take over. If Minasian were to pursue a bigger contract that extended over multiple years, would he need to get approval from potential buyers?

I guess we'll have a better sense of where things stand in a few weeks as we get through the Winter Meetings.

Excellent points.  I think Arte is acting like a house flipper right now, doing some upgrades that are simple and not very expensive but adds curb appeal and adds value to the house. 

Having said that, I would love to see some upgrades to the bullpen but don't think it'll be realistic due to high demand and prices right now.  While SS was a huge disaster last season, if the Angels want to go the budget route, Aledmys Diaz would be a pretty solid signing and probably won't be too expensive and easily get able on a 1 year deal. 

My longshot sign would be Josh Bell.  He struggled pretty bad late with the Padres but he's a very good player.  If Walsh isn't healthy and Bell's market fails to materialize or doesn't get an offer that he likes, I would like it if he can come to the Angels for a 1 year high dollar deal and go back to the market again next season, but I think he'll get a pretty decent deal in the 4 year 80 million range.  

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

I'm thinking the next move should be on another mid rotation Starting Pitcher via free Agency. One of these righties would work to split up the Lefties in the middle of the rotation.

1. Jameson Taillon (31, 4.2 WAR)

3/37.5M - 10M/12.5M/15M

2. Taijuan Walker (29, 3.9) 

3/35M - 9M/11.5M/14.5M

Rotation:

1. Ohtani (6.2)

2. Anderson (6.1)

3. Sandoval (3.5)

4. Taillon (4.2) or Walker (3.9) both have great control and induce ground balls.

5. Detmers (2.4)

6. Minor Leaguer shuttle (.50) or Canning/Rodriguez (0.0), Suarez (1.6) (could be trade bait).

[Warfarin]

5 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

It's also worth noting the continuing trend of short term deals. Minasian got rid of the long term contract of Raisel, and his only deal more than this season was Anderson (a mere $13m for each of the following two seasons).

I know that isn't a new insight, but it makes me wonder how much of this mild spending spree, as it appears to date, is Moreno wanting one last shot and pushing the payroll just a bit while still avoiding the big expenditure due new ownership wanting to avoid too much on the books when they take over. If Minasian were to pursue a bigger contract that extended over multiple years, would he need to get approval from potential buyers?

I guess we'll have a better sense of where things stand in a few weeks as we get through the Winter Meetings.

All great points.  Maybe you're right - maybe Arte wants one last shot at things, while also not committing to super long term deals that will be a negative in terms of his team sale. 

As for what Rosenthal said, he's definitely one of the most plugged in people and it appears, on the surface, this team will increase spending by a good amount this offseason (stunningly!), BUT in the context of it all being short term deals.  Anderson's will probably be the longest.

6 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

"The Angels still need a shortstop, and even with Moreno back in spending mode, it seems unlikely they will play on one of the Big Four — Trea Turner, Carlos Correa, Xander Bogaerts, Dansby Swanson. Could they trade for the White Sox’s Tim Anderson? The Guardians’ Amed Rosario? The Yankees’ Isiah Kiner-Falefa? Rosario and Kiner-Falefa, like Urshela and Renfroe, are entering their walk years."

Rosario was one I speculated on.  Kiner-Falefa seems like a possibility too.  Minasian's trend of targeting a player entering their walk year is clear, so I think that's probably solid guidance in terms of guys he'd target, although I'm guessing a guy with 2 years left would be okay too, if they wanted to swing for the fences and pursue someone like Adames (doubtful but maybe possible).

Whatever the case may be, it's very encouraging to see this.  Most of us, myself included, figured the payroll would either go down or at best stay the same, and it clearly is going up instead.  

[Warfarin]

5 hours ago, aznhockeyguy said:

Excellent points.  I think Arte is acting like a house flipper right now, doing some upgrades that are simple and not very expensive but adds curb appeal and adds value to the house. 

Having said that, I would love to see some upgrades to the bullpen but don't think it'll be realistic due to high demand and prices right now.  While SS was a huge disaster last season, if the Angels want to go the budget route, Aledmys Diaz would be a pretty solid signing and probably won't be too expensive and easily get able on a 1 year deal. 

My longshot sign would be Josh Bell.  He struggled pretty bad late with the Padres but he's a very good player.  If Walsh isn't healthy and Bell's market fails to materialize or doesn't get an offer that he likes, I would like it if he can come to the Angels for a 1 year high dollar deal and go back to the market again next season, but I think he'll get a pretty decent deal in the 4 year 80 million range.  

In theory, Bell would be nice, but I think with Urshela signed and probably being looked at to start a decent amount at first, I don't think we are looking at a 1B.

I think SS and RP are the remaining areas.  I would personally like another OF, one who would effectively serve as a backup, as I don't think Moniak is really a great 4th OF just yet, and he, like Adell, needs more time in AAA to see if they can improve.

So, for me - SS (Rosario?), OF (4th OF type), RP (probably 2 more arms or so?), and a backup catcher if the FO feels Thaiss isn't good enough defensively to serve in that role.

[T.G.]

I’m a big Tim Anderson fan, but he tends to get himself in a bit of “trouble “ now and then.  So… I have my doubts that Minasian would pursue.

That being said… Imagine Anderson at the top of the lineup…  

Get him and we’re going to Applebees!

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, T.G. said:

I’m a big Tim Anderson fan, but he tends to get himself in a bit of “trouble “ now and then.  So… I have my doubts that Minasian would pursue.

That being said… Imagine Anderson at the top of the lineup…  

Get him and we’re going to Applebees!

While Anderson fits what Minasian looks for in a trade, I think the White Sox are in "win now" mode and I don't see them trading him away.  The only reason why I see Rosario as a possibility is because the Guardians always trade away players, even if their team is good, to save whatever money they can.

[AngelStew43]

Trade Fletcher, Barria, and Suarez for bullpen help.  Sign one of the SS.  Correa or Turner.  All of a sudden, we are good again.  

[EdmontonAngelsFan]

Next move...I think we trade for a SS.

Then we work on the bullpen.

[angelsnationtalk]

I’m not sure why Rosenthal would mention Tim Anderson, but I’m all for it. He’d cost a pretty penny to trade for, but we desperately need a leadoff hitter. That’s why I love he or Turner. 
SS: Anderson/Turner
LF: Ward
CF: Trout
DH: Ohtani
3B: Rendon
RF: Renfroe
1B: Walsh/Urshela 
C :  Stassi
2B: Fletcher

[Erstad Grit]

40 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Trade Fletcher, Barria, and Suarez for bullpen help.  Sign one of the SS.  Correa or Turner.  All of a sudden, we are good again.  

You wouldn't like Swanson? I think he's the most likely due to cost and Perry's Braves knowledge 

[totdprods]

I really want Isaiah Kiner-Falefa now. Versatility and plus-plus defense. Something of a question mark offensively, but Renfroe and Urshela give me a little more comfort in taking a risk at SS offensively. And it’s not like IKF has no hit skills. He makes plenty of contact, has decent discipline, and is a legit SB threat. He really fits us perfectly, and in theory his presence could make it easier to consider moving Rengifo, though I really like him. 

Amed Rosario is almost as attractive, but the defense is a bit of a question make still. He improved quite a bit last year…but at this point I want the best defense I can get at SS (realistically speaking) and IKF is top of my list there. Kolten Wong is an option too, if we are comfy with Rengifo or Fletcher at SS. 

I just don’t see us in the market for one of the big 4. Adding one of them and considering an Ohtani extension seems incredibly difficult for an incoming ownership group to take on right out of the gate. 

Maybe try and sign a cheap vet SP (Cueto, Lorenzen, Lugo?) and say Michael Fulmer, perhaps Narvaez as an offensive-first back-up C (who hits left-handed), maybe another vet RP or two akin to the Watson and Cishek deals for depth, and call it an off-season.

[Docwaukee]

4 hours ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

I'm thinking the next move should be on another mid rotation Starting Pitcher via free Agency. One of these righties would work to split up the Lefties in the middle of the rotation.

You forgot Suarez.  I think they're done with the rotation.  

[DMVol]

28 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

You forgot Suarez.  I think they're done with the rotation.  

I agree....maybe bullpen but not rotation after signing Anderson....

[BTH]

43 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I really want Isaiah Kiner-Falefa now. Versatility and plus-plus defense. Something of a question mark offensively, but Renfroe and Urshela give me a little more comfort in taking a risk at SS offensively. And it’s not like IKF has no hit skills. He makes plenty of contact, has decent discipline, and is a legit SB threat. He really fits us perfectly, and in theory his presence could make it easier to consider moving Rengifo, though I really like him.

Is Kiner-Falefa really plus-plus at defense?

He had -6 OAA at SS in 2021 and -2 OAA at SS in 2022. I watched a decent bit of Yankees games this season, and he makes a lot of routine mistakes and has a noodle arm.

I’m not convinced he’s any better than Fletcher.

[BTH]

As I’ve said before, I’m not sure that Cleveland would actually trade Rosario.

Beyond what I’ve already said, another factor is that Cleveland is notoriously difficult to trade with.

 

I’m not sure why the White Sox would trade Anderson, as they need a SS and it seems like he’s the heart-and-soul of their team. Maybe if they re-sign Andrus? But they’d probably want major league help for Anderson.

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Is Kiner-Falefa really plus-plus at defense?

He had -6 OAA at SS in 2021 and -2 OAA at SS in 2022. I watched a decent bit of Yankees games this season, and he makes a lot of routine mistakes and has a noodle arm.

I’m not convinced he’s any better than Fletcher.

Maybe he had an off year..I haven’t watched him much since the Rangers traded him, but I recall him being strong defensively. Not elite, but given his cost and availability, strong enough to be an upgrade.

[Angelsfan1984]

I would love to see them snag Alex Reyes who was non tendered. a guy with closing experience (health permitting).

[BTH]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Maybe he had an off year..I haven’t watched him much since the Rangers traded him, but I recall him being strong defensively. Not elite, but given his cost and availability, strong enough to be an upgrade.

He was playing 3B when he had good defense with Texas.