Now what? What moves would you like to see them make.

[BTH]

2 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

What I think a realistic plan is, based on financial limitations:  trade for SS Hoerner, sign SP/RP Lugo (or Lorenzen), sign C Tucker Barnhardt

What do you think is a realistic trade for Hoerner?

I just don’t see the Cubs trading him, since he’s one of their few above average players with multiple years of control remaining.

[Warfarin]

7 minutes ago, Trendon said:

What do you think is a realistic trade for Hoerner?

I just don’t see the Cubs trading him, since he’s one of their few above average players with multiple years of control remaining.

Good question.  Could potentially build a trade around Suarez + Quero.  I would have to further delve into the Cubs' needs, though, to probably better answer that.

That said, perhaps he isn't available either.  I'm not really positive on who the options are at this point, but I am assuming they will try to swing a trade for a reasonable cost-controlled SS that projects as an average player.

[wopphil]

31 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I really want Correa and an arm. If that isn’t the case, I think I am at Segura and Christian Vazquez on the offensive side and Chaffin for the pen.

I want a shortstop and a starter. I think Correa isn’t happening. I’d be happy with Swanson if the price isn’t prohibitive. And one of Bassit or Eovaldi (I think Rodon is too costly). While I don’t think there is any chance the team will add Swanson and Bassit, doing so would make them competitive for the division IMO. 

[Docwaukee]

I’ll pick the non sexy disappointing route that everyone is gonna hate but makes us better

lorenzen, Anderson, iglesias. 
 

id prefer Gleyber or someone like that over iglesias.  
 

the magical addition of an elite reliever would be terrific but I don’t see it happening. 

[Angelsjunky]

9 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I'm honestly still a bit confused as to exactly what the strategy is.  I don't actively dislike any of the moves so far, but they've mostly been mid-value and/or "raising the floor"-type moves.  Those are important, of course, but I'm not sure what, if anything, they tell us about what to expect from this point forward.  The offer to Contreras doesn't neatly fit into any sort of "strategy box," either.  If money is no object, then I'm all for going for Correa next, even though there's virtually no way that contract will be worth it in the long run. 

For one, I think "raising the floor" is a rather clear, sound strategy, considering how low the floor was last year, especially in the lineup. Swapping out 1200 PA of Wade, Duffy, Velazquez, Mayfield, Adell, Sierra, Lagares etc for Renfroe and Urshela greatly improves the team (in theory). Anderson essentially replaces all of Lorenzen's and Syndergaard's innings with similar, maybe better, performance.

But I hear you about being confused with their strategy - as evinced by the Contreras rumor. Every position as an overall outlook, both short and long-term, and catcher is one that is pretty clear: Stassi and some combination of Thaiss and O'Hoppe this year, with O'Hoppe gradually taking over as primary within the next two seasons or so, and Quero getting involved a few years down the line. Contreras got 5/$87.5M (or $17.5M a year), so as the Angels were outbid, presumably they wanted him for 4 years sand the same AAV or five and slightly less...either way, spending $15-18M on him--given what they already have--doesn't seem like a good use of resources. 

My point being, and my worry really, is that I'm not sure the Contreras rumor implies an unclear strategy as much as it implies poor thinking on Minasian's part. Or maybe it is just my inability to grasp his brilliance, but I'd rather see them spend that money elsewhere - whether an elite reliever or two, and/or a solid 4th outfielder, another starter, or upgrading shortstop.

[BTH]

2 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

lorenzen, Anderson, iglesias. 
 

id prefer Gleyber or someone like that over iglesias.  

I’m not sure I see Iglesias returning.

Perry releasing him a couple days after the deadline for released players to be eligible for playoff rosters seemed odd. And then it actually mattered because he raked for Boston but couldn’t be on their playoff roster as they went to the CS.

[jsnpritchett]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

For one, I think "raising the floor" is a rather clear, sound strategy, considering how low the floor was last year, especially in the lineup. Swapping out 1200 PA of Wade, Duffy, Velazquez, Mayfield, Adell, Sierra, Lagares etc for Renfroe and Urshela greatly improves the team (in theory). Anderson essentially replaces all of Lorenzen's and Syndergaard's innings with similar, maybe better, performance.

But I hear you about being confused with their strategy - as evinced by the Contreras rumor. Every position as an overall outlook, both short and long-term, and catcher is one that is pretty clear: Stassi and some combination of Thaiss and O'Hoppe this year, with O'Hoppe gradually taking over as primary within the next two seasons or so, and Quero getting involved a few years down the line. Contreras got 5/$87.5M (or $17.5M a year), so as the Angels were outbid, presumably they wanted him for 4 years sand the same AAV or five and slightly less...either way, spending $15-18M on him--given what they already have--doesn't seem like a good use of resources. 

My point being, and my worry really, is that I'm not sure the Contreras rumor implies an unclear strategy as much as it implies poor thinking on Minasian's part. Or maybe it is just my inability to grasp his brilliance, but I'd rather see them spend that money elsewhere - whether an elite reliever or two, and/or a solid 4th outfielder, another starter, or upgrading shortstop.

Yeah, as I said, I have no problem with "raising the floor."  I just don't think it necessarily says much about "what now?"  It could mean more mid-value moves, it could mean this is laying the stage for a "big splash," or it could mean this is pretty much all we'll get (despite Minasian's somewhat vague comments about what's left to do).  I just have no clue what's next. 

[TempeAngel]

I think Minasian has done a nice job so far with Anderson, Urshela and Renfroe so even if he is unable to upgrade at SS or add another SP we are a better team and could compete for the wild card. From here, my priorities would be:

1. Find a way to keep Ohtani. Sign him before he becomes a free agent if possible. He should have an Angels cap on his plaque in Cooperstown - Next to Vladi and Trout.

2. Find an upgrade at SS but don't trade Sandoval to get one. He is a top of the rotation pitcher with four more years of control. It's probably through a trade but I would be happy with Swanson. His defense is more valuable than ever without a shift. If Swanson goes to the Cubs then a trade for Hoerner would be great.

3. Find a 6th starting pitcher. Maybe it is Canning. He's healthy and started a throwing program last month. Maybe it's Lorenzen. If they are willing to go over the Luxury cap then sign Rodon for 5/135

[Warfarin]

2 minutes ago, TempeAngel said:

I think Minasian has done a nice job so far with Anderson, Urshela and Renfroe so even if he is unable to upgrade at SS or add another SP we are a better team and could compete for the wild card. From here, my priorities would be:

1. Find a way to keep Ohtani. Sign him before he becomes a free agent. He should have an Angels cap on his plaque in Cooperstown - Next to Vladi and Trout.

2. Find an upgrade at SS but don't trade Sandoval to get one. He is a top of the rotation pitcher with four more years of control. It's probably through a trade but I would be happy with Swanson. His defense is more valuable than ever without a shift.

3. Find a 6th starting pitcher. Maybe it is Canning. He's healthy and started a throwing program last month. Maybe it's Lorenzen. If they are willing to go over the Luxury cap then sign Rodon for 5/135

We would all love #1, but I have to imagine Ohtani will wait first to see who the new owner is, then see the direction of this time.  I don't think there's anything Minasian can currently do to get him to sign, even if he offers him the moon.  The money is nice, but Ohtani seems to be significantly more motivated by winning than he is by dollars.

[AngelsLakersFan]

10 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

I wonder how much Brian Anderson would cost.  He's got a bit of versatility on top of corner OFer.  Good OF defender.  Seems to have some statcast data that Perry might like.  And looks like he had some launch angle issues last year.  Get a fresh start.  Can play 3b.  Has played 1b.  Even stood at 2b and SS a bit.  Can't imagine he'd be more that 3-4 mil.  

Seems like a decent add, but if they are going to spend on a 4th outfielder you gotta think it's for a guy who can realistically cover CF if Trout is out. Maybe they are happy with Moniak in that position, but if they are then they probably don't look for a 4th outfielder at all.

[N-From-OC]

For me I’d like one of Swanson or Correa but if that’s not possible then add in other ways to the rotation. One of Stripling, Wacha, Fujinami or Eovaldi. To the Bullpen with one of Rogers, Fulmer, or Knebel/Boxberger. And Make a trade for a shortstop not named Tim Anderson or Tatis as they will want too much for what I’d want to offer them and I hope the FO thinks the same. 

[Revad]

1 hour ago, TempeAngel said:

Most seasoned Angel fans probably feel both - all in with tempered expectations.

Exactly.

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

What I would want them to do, if no consequences of actions:  Sign SS Correa, LHP Rodon, OF Ortega (4th OF), C Tucker Barnhardt.

What I think a realistic plan is, based on financial limitations:  trade for SS Hoerner, sign SP/RP Lugo (or Lorenzen), sign C Tucker Barnhardt

I think if the Cubs sign Swanson, and that is who I am assuming will sign him at this point, something reasonable can be put together for Hoerner.  Rosario would be my top choice, but I don't see the Guardians trading him at this point.

Lugo takes on a swing role, and could potentially become a solid reliever if he isn't needed as a SP.  Barnhard I put because he's a LHH C, and I get the feeling that Minasian is trying hard to upgrade our catching depth.  I suspect that the FO will roll with the current OF group, although I'd personally like to see someone like Ortega on the roster instead of Moniak, as I think that's a sneaky upgrade that greatly strengthens our OF depth.  

The realistic plan will assuredly be less than 20mil in combined salary, thus staying comfortably under the luxury tax.

Approach 1:  if an appealing FA can be signed for one year and they would make the roster then they should be signed.  If a trade for a SS that is better than a FA that seems like a good deal becomes available, go for it but the idea is to spend what you can in one year contracts. Next year new owners get more control because we stay under the tax, meanwhile you do everything you can to make the playoffs.  

Approach 2:  Continue acquiring expiring contracts even if it takes you over the tax in a effort to keep Ohtani.   If you’re not making the playoffs for goodness sake extend or trade expiring contracts including Ohtani’s.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Revad

[Warfarin]

30 minutes ago, Revad said:

Exactly.

Approach 1:  if an appealing FA can be signed for one year and they would make the roster then they should be signed.  If a trade for a SS that is better than a FA that seems like a good deal becomes available, go for it but the idea is to spend what you can in one year contracts. Next year new owners get more control because we stay under the tax, meanwhile you do everything you can to make the playoffs.  

Approach 2:  Continue acquiring expiring contracts even if it takes you over the tax in a effort to keep Ohtani.   If you’re not making the playoffs for goodness sake extend or trade expiring contracts including Ohtani’s.

I agree, and I think the overriding theme of acquiring guys on expiring contracts, or signing guys to modest multi-year deals, is probably what we will continue to see for the remainder of the offseason.

I agree with trading Ohtani if we aren't in contention and feel rather certain he will not stay.  The worst possible outcome for this franchise is to hang onto him, then see him depart as a free agent.  Even though whoever is acquiring him would only get him for 2 months, we have seen how much teams are willing to pay to go for it.  This team can get a very strong group of prospects for Ohtani, which again I do not want, but if they genuinely feel Ohtani will not stay, then it is something they must do.

[ukyah]

i think if the angels could land one of wil myers, brian anderson, or edwin rios for the bench then that would complete that portion of the offseason. wil myers would be great, but i haven't heard anything about what his FA expectations are. he's just good enough to want to find a starting spot on a team most likely, but he'd be an excellent addition to our bench and he's very capable defensively. i think that would be another raise the floor move for perry. anderson and rios both would certainly take bench roles and they'd also be good bench guys with upside too, but a step below myers most likely.

[mmc]

These are the remaining free agent starting pitchers with a positive fWAR, who would you go after?  Drew Rucinski who played in Korea is another option that is likely better than a lot of these guys.

[BTH]

8 minutes ago, mmc said:

These are the remaining free agent starting pitchers with a positive fWAR, who would you go after?  Drew Rucinski who played in Korea is another option that is likely better than a lot of these guys.

Rodón, Syndergaard, or Lorenzen.

Also: Rucinski and Lugo.

 

If I’m signing a pitcher, I want someone who won’t require a huge commitment, has good stuff, and is on the younger side. Rodón’s an exception on the first point because he’s the clear best pitcher available and in a different tier than everyone else.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Trendon

[TempeAngel]

47 minutes ago, ukyah said:

i think if the angels could land one of wil myers, brian anderson, or edwin rios for the bench then that would complete that portion of the offseason. wil myers would be great, but i haven't heard anything about what his FA expectations are. he's just good enough to want to find a starting spot on a team most likely, but he'd be an excellent addition to our bench and he's very capable defensively. i think that would be another raise the floor move for perry. anderson and rios both would certainly take bench roles and they'd also be good bench guys with upside too, but a step below myers most likely.

Will Myers as a 4th OF'er? Interesting. We have Urshela but he could play some 1B also. What would you pay him? I see he only played 77 games last year. Is he healthy?

[Warfarin]

24 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Rodón, Syndergaard, or Lorenzen.

Also: Rucinski and Lugo.

 

If I’m signing a pitcher, I want someone who won’t require a huge commitment, has good stuff, and is on the younger side. Rodón’s an exception on the first point because he’s the clear best pitcher available and in a different tier than everyone else.

As I eyeball the upcoming years in terms of FA SPs, there are a LOT of really good ones, so all things considered, I'd probably pass on signing anyone who would require more than a year.  We just signed Anderson, which should give us a core of 4 SPs in Sandoval, Anderson, Detmers, and Suarez for a number of years.  Of course we'd like to re-sign Ohtani too.  And it would seem reasonable to assume that at least one of our noteworthy SP prospects (Silseth, Bush, Bachman, CRod, etc) will pan out positively.  

So in that regard - I think I'd just look to sign a Lorenzen/Lugo, keep the future open/flexible, and use the financial resources on positions that clearly need help and don't have any help on the horizon.

So for example, if our new owner comes with tons of money, we could, say, re-sign Ohtani, maybe sign another legit SP on the market next year, then attempt to swing a trade using our significant SP depth for a position of need at that point.  I think this could be a possible move we could do if we don't sign anyone of note this year, as others have pointed out that next year's positional FA class is rather weak.

[BTH]

12 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

So in that regard - I think I'd just look to sign a Lorenzen/Lugo, keep the future open/flexible, and use the financial resources on positions that clearly need help and don't have any help on the horizon.

100%

[TempeAngel]

 

29 minutes ago, mmc said:

These are the remaining free agent starting pitchers with a positive fWAR, who would you go after?  Drew Rucinski who played in Korea is another option that is likely better than a lot of these guys.

You left off some columns - the projected salaries and if there is a QO.

Factoring that in I still like Rodon if they will go over the luxury cap. If not, I think Greinke or Syndergaard on a 1 year could be interesting.

But I think they may stay with what they have for a 6th starter - Canning, Rodriguez, Silseth. Or sign Lorenzen.

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, TempeAngel said:

Will Myers as a 4th OF'er? Interesting. We have Urshela but he could play some 1B also. What would you pay him? I see he only played 77 games last year. Is he healthy?

myers is a very good 1b and i think a very good OF as well, who can cover CF if necessary. i have no idea what his contract expectations might be. i'm sure he's trying to land a starting job somewhere, and he's good enough to get one, but he's been a roving bench player for the padres.

[Warfarin]

9 hours ago, ukyah said:

myers is a very good 1b and i think a very good OF as well, who can cover CF if necessary. i have no idea what his contract expectations might be. i'm sure he's trying to land a starting job somewhere, and he's good enough to get one, but he's been a roving bench player for the padres.

Myers is an interesting suggestion, but I think he is probably the more unaffordable version of Brian Anderson for our purposes.  I'm guessing he will be looking to start, but even if he doesn't, I'm thinking he will probably get over 5+mil as a FA, which would probably price him out of our ability to afford him, assuming the bulk of our remaining money is earmarked for a SS and, possibly, a 6th SP.

I think Myers and Anderson basically offer the same kind of positional versatility.  Myers has covered CF in the past, but looking at his defensive metrics out there, they are terrible, such that I think Ward would be the one to backup CF even if Myers was on the team.

[TempeAngel]

21 hours ago, Trendon said:

-Two more bats so that Soto/Velazquez and Moniak/Adell get pushed off the projected opening day roster.

 

I agree.

Ideally, the two bats can take a walk and have an OBP higher than the .312 league average. It's something our lineup needs. Even our new guys are not really on base guys who will take a walk.

Renfroe has a career .300 OBP.

Urshela is at .321.

Rengifo is at .294 career OBP.

Fletcher is at .297 and .288 OBP the past two years.

Stassi is at .295 career OBP.

Walsh was .269 last year. 

It is a blaring weakness in the construction of the team right now.

 

[totdprods]

If money isn’t really an issue, I would sign Eovaldi or Bassitt. One more arm, especially a RHP with upper-half of the rotation talent, would really set us up nicely not just in the WC hunt, but as credible division contenders, and a rotation that could match up in the playoffs well with any. Also gives us rotation insurance if we lose Ohtani.

I just can’t get myself comfortable with the idea of a mega-contract for Swanson or Correa, and can’t imagine it would make affording Ohtani realistic. I’d rather commit to a stopgap - either Iglesias or Andrus by FA, or Kiner-Falefa or Rojas by trade - and hope Neto takes over next year, or pull the trigger for a SS such as Hoerner, Rodgers, Rosario, Adames, Arraez (as a 2B) as a much more cost-effective long-term option. Would have no problem even considering Neto in a potential deal.

tldr; Adding a strong #2-3 type SP would help us a lot more than an *expensive* SS. 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by totdprods

[Jay]

16 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Adding a strong #2-3 type SP would help us a lot more than an *expensive* SS.