Bowden: “[The Angels] are fielding phone calls and they are listening [on Ohtani]”

[Stradling]

9 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I was just bantering.

The answer is you don’t trade Ohtani period.  He is the most marketable player on the planet, he is a middle of the order hitter and a guy that could dominate on the mound throughout a whole postseason.

You don’t trade him.  You do your one million percent best to put a team around him (including busting your budget) and live with the results.

I agree you do whatever you can to keep him and surrounding him with talent.  But you can’t force those guys to come to Anaheim.  We need multiple “those” guys and we can’t trade for multiple guys like that. 

[Duren, Duren]

What if free agency existed in Ruth's era? The  Red Sox had a cheap ass owner and wouldn't have paid enough. The Yankees had never been a powerhouse in their history till then. But it was New York ..

The Giants actually were the more successful New York team. And there were other elite teams.like the Chicago teams and the Philadelphia A's that had won multiple championships and would win more during Ruth's tenure. But they had Connie Mack running things. 

Also, in that era the owners had strong solidarity. There were no player unions or agents. 

Ohtani probably is the closest player now to Ruth in terms of uniqueness and elite two way skills. And he also has advisors and a management team. So even if he has loyalty to the Angels to whatever degree there probably will be debates on his side.

The Angels have control at present, but leverage is reduced once this deadline passes. Especially if the team continues to flounder. Maybe a new manager who Ohtani has faith in could be a factor. But that won't be decided till after this season. And Trout's status could also discourage Ohtani from having faith that the team will rise to an elite level.

As Jeff Bridges said in the Big Lebowski. " A lot of ins, outs, what have you. New shit has come to light. It's a very complicated case, man." 

[mmc]

 

[HeavenlyHalos]

We better not trade him unless we know there is zero chance of retaining him. I have no faith in the franchise under Moreno so I might as well be entertained by watching Ohtani

[Stradling]

9 hours ago, HeavenlyHalos said:

We better not trade him unless we know there is zero chance of retaining him. I have no faith in the franchise under Moreno so I might as well be entertained by watching Ohtani

I can’t imagine a scenario where they trade him knowing they have a chance to resign him. 

[totdprods]

Being a two-way player, he'd still have a ton of value next trade deadline too. At that point they'd have a better gauge of his interest in re-signing, plus they'd have 2023 to try and compete again. 

If he's going in the next few days, it'll be because someone makes an absolutely ridiculous offer, and/or they know he will not be re-signing at all - and I cannot imagine his agents would have given any indication about that yet. Why spurn one of, if not your best, contract suitors this early?

Or if they've decided to go full rebuild. Which honestly would not surprise me terribly at this point. It's the only strategy they haven't tried the last two decades and maybe at some point Arte will see the writing on the wall, and realize this is the best time to try it and still build a contender during the life of Trout's contract - and maybe Arte's ownership. They've drafted enough and have a relatively young team. Embracing a quick 2 year retool could put them back in contention soon.

Edited July 29, 2022 by totdprods

[Angel Oracle]

17 hours ago, mmc said:

 

Yep, I’d take Grayson Rodriguez, Gunnar Henderson, Colton Cowser, and DL Hall in a nanosecond.

Would the O’s do it though, and would Arte Moreno sign off on it?

[Jason]

7 hours ago, Stradling said:

I can’t imagine a scenario where they trade him knowing they have a chance to resign him. 

This. If they have talked to him, they are keeping it pretty hush hush 

[Dtwncbad]

On 7/28/2022 at 9:45 AM, Stradling said:

I agree you do whatever you can to keep him and surrounding him with talent.  But you can’t force those guys to come to Anaheim.  We need multiple “those” guys and we can’t trade for multiple guys like that. 

No you can’t force people to come here in free agency.  Thats exactly why you have to try to pursue impact players in a trade.  Be aggressive in trading for a high impact player that fits a specific need, since you can control that.

At some point the Angels will probably need a little luck or karma come their way in the form of a player already here really taking a big step forward.

Anyway, I agree it would be difficult if not impossible to trade for everything the Angels need.  But I think the team needs to have some balls in pursuing as much as they can by trade and then hope they can attract another player on free agency.

That seems like a better plan than not trading for a specific need and hoping you can solve everything in free agency.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Dtwncbad

[Dtwncbad]

15 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Yep, I’d take Grayson Rodriguez, Gunnar Henderson, Colton Cowser, and DL Hall in a nanosecond.

Would the O’s do it though, and would Arte Moreno sign off on it?

I think the answer is the Orioles would not do that.  Why?  Their ownership is the cheapest bastard out there.  There is no way he wants to give up a boatload of controllable cheap players for one guy that would require hundreds of millions.

No way.

[Angel Oracle]

8 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I think the answer is the Orioles would not do that.  Why?  Their ownership is the cheapest bastard out there.  There is no way he wants to give up a boatload of controllable cheap players for one guy that would require hundreds of millions.

No way.

They are in the midst of a possible ownership change.   But it may take a while, beyond the 2022 off-season?

It’s nice to dream anyway.

Dreaming, Ohtani, and the prospects are all we have to hang out hats on currently.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[tdawg87]

The O's may not see themselves as competitive right now. That division is ridiculous. Maybe in 2-3 years.

But who knows? 

[mmc]

If Ohtani doesn’t want to extend here why the hell would he want to sign a big deal with Baltimore?

[AngelsFaninGA]

11 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I think the answer is the Orioles would not do that.  Why?  Their ownership is the cheapest bastard out there.  There is no way he wants to give up a boatload of controllable cheap players for one guy that would require hundreds of millions.

No way.

They're also headed in the right direction and not that far removed from being the aging team with bad contracts and a barren farm system themselves. I'd be very surprised if they drain their farm system and change course

[eligrba]

2 minutes ago, mmc said:

If Ohtani doesn’t want to extend here why the hell would he want to sign a big deal with Baltimore?

You are missing the point.  Obviously Baltimore wants to completely obliterate their slow and steady rebuild for the opportunity to have Ohtani play for them for one year.

[eligrba]

5 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

They're also headed in the right direction and not that far removed from being the aging team with bad contracts and a barren farm system themselves. I'd be very surprised if they drain their farm system and change course

This is the nice aspect of the Angels.  They seem to always have a few bad contracts and a barren farm system around year to year.

[Jason]

8 minutes ago, mmc said:

If Ohtani doesn’t want to extend here why the hell would he want to sign a big deal with Baltimore?

I think nobody knows what Ohtani truly wants. If it is to win then signing with Halos or Os would be dumb 

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, mmc said:

If Ohtani doesn’t want to extend here why the hell would he want to sign a big deal with Baltimore?

His favorite show is The Wire.

 

(Or at least I assume it is. It's everyone else's)

[Lou]

The Orioles are only 3 games out of a WC spot. 

[Sully151]

We, as fans, tend to over value our players in trade scenarios. I know Ohtani is a once in several generations player, but are we over valuing him too?

Would any team really give up their top 4-5 prospects for 1.5 seasons of Ohtani?

Many of the teams that can really afford to sign him are already playoff bound this year (Dodgers, Yankees, Mets) and probably next. I am not sure they will see him as a worthwhile trade for one start in each round of the Play-offs, and as a DH.

That leaves the fringe teams who are looking for that extra bump to get them in.

Padres, Braves (fighting for a wildcard)

Brewers, Cardinals (fighting each other)

Blue Jays, Twins, Guardians, Mariners (maybe)

Of those teams, who can afford to sign him in order to justify the trade price?

Which teams that may be out of it this year think, with a little luck, will contend next year? 
 

I don’t think he is going anywhere until maybe this off-season and for less than we think he is worth.

[cals]

43 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

His favorite show is The Wire.

 

(Or at least I assume it is. It's everyone else's)

Not a fan.

[TempeAngel]

I think trade or no trade Ohtani is a Met in 2024.

[Angelsfan1984]

6 minutes ago, Sully151 said:

We, as fans, tend to over value our players in trade scenarios. I know Ohtani is a once in several generations player, but are we over valuing him too?

Would any team really give up their top 4-5 prospects for 1.5 seasons of Ohtani?

Many of the teams that can really afford to sign him are already playoff bound this year (Dodgers, Yankees, Mets) and probably next. I am not sure they will see him as a worthwhile trade for one start in each round of the Play-offs, and as a DH.

That leaves the fringe teams who are looking for that extra bump to get them in.

Padres, Braves (fighting for a wildcard)

Brewers, Cardinals (fighting each other)

Blue Jays, Twins, Guardians, Mariners (maybe)

Of those teams, who can afford to sign him in order to justify the trade price?

Which teams that may be out of it this year think, with a little luck, will contend next year? 
 

I don’t think he is going anywhere until maybe this off-season and for less than we think he is worth.

Playoff bound is not the goal (unless you’re an angels fan). The goal is to win the World Series. If you think ohtani can get you to and help you win the next 2 World Series…I feel like there would be a team willing to do it. 

[ScottM]

I think the Cardinals are the team to watch here. If you can build around Jordan Walker and Liberatore and/or Graceffo, I think you have to seriously consider it. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, cals said:

Not a fan.