Bowden: “[The Angels] are fielding phone calls and they are listening [on Ohtani]”

[mmc]

 

[Stradling]

Of course not. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

Every team: "You're obviously looking to trade Ohtani because your team sucks and he's walking next year. What will it take?"

Minasian: "We are winning back to back World Series in '23 and '24 with Ohtani on this team."

[Angels 1961]

7 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Every team: "You're obviously looking to trade Ohtani because your team sucks and he's walking next year. What will it take?"

Minasian: "We are winning back to back World Series in '23 and '24 with Ohtani on this team."

With kool-aid he is selling plus those magic beans. You do not have to trade him but if smart you would listen.

[tdawg87]

This could mean several things. 

Or nothing.

[Angelsjunky]

Of course Minasian is listening. And he's probably going to get some tempting offers.

I mean, what if the Blue Jays offer Gabriel Moreno (a 60 FV catcher, can platoon with Stassi now), Bo Bichette (SS solved), and a couple 45 FV prospects?

What if the Yankees offer Luis Severino, Anthony Volpe (60 FV SS prospect), and Jasson Dominguez (50 FV)?

What if the Dodgers offer a 200-page manual on how to scout and develop a farm system, and throw in any five prospects of the Angels choosing?

Not saying that the above will or should happen, just that Perry will and should listen.

 

[totdprods]

I hope they listen on Iglesias, Ward, Sandoval, Walsh, Suarez…no need to move any of them, but if you got the right return for one of those guys it could pay big dividends for 2023+, and they’d just be faced with the dilemma of trying to replace said player internally or via FA. 

Couple that with a couple prospects from moving Thor, maybe one of Loup/Tepera if lucky, and it could be a good deadline haul all things considered, given how little we really have to sell. 

[totdprods]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

What if the Dodgers offer a 200-page manual on how to scout and develop a farm system, and throw in any five prospects of the Angels choosing?

I laughed. Sign me up.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I hope they listen on Iglesias, Ward, Sandoval, Walsh, Suarez…no need to move any of them, but if you got the right return for one of those guys it could pay big dividends for 2023+, and they’d just be faced with the dilemma of trying to replace said player internally or via FA. 

Couple that with a couple prospects from moving Thor, maybe one of Loup/Tepera if lucky, and it could be a good deadline haul all things considered, given how little we really have to sell. 

Either rebuild or don't. 

[eligrba]

The core group is better than how they are performing.  Before adding or subtracting players, the Angels need to fix their player development infrastructure. 

[robblin17]

Not surprising. 

[eligrba]

4 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Either rebuild or don't. 

The Angels need to rebuild but not with players. 

[bloodbrother]

Signing Ohtani to an extension is obviously their top priority, so until they get a firm no on the possibility of that, their stance makes sense. Ideally, they come to a solution one way or another on this during the offseason. If Ohtani's camp indicates he won't re-sign, then the Angels need to do the smart thing and trade him for as much as they can get. He's a once in a lifetime talent, but the price will decline the longer they wait and teams won't be as interested in paying so much for just a 2 or so month rental at next years deadline

[totdprods]

23 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Either rebuild or don't. 

You could move one of those guys in the right deal and it wouldn’t tank 2023, or at the very least wouldn’t be throwing in the towel. 

I’d have to think someone like Sandoval would be really intriguing to Toronto given their rotation injuries and playoff hopes, and they have the farm to offer a couple pieces that could help the Angels in 2023. Losing Sandoval would be a big loss, but cashing in on a guy we got for a back-up rental catcher at perhaps the peak of his value would not be a totally stupid move. If it netted the Angels something like (totally off top of head, spitballing!) Groshans, Biggio (lol it tried autocorrecting to Bigfoot), and a strong pitching prospect in AA or better, have to think about it, especially if you could clear maybe Loup or Tepera’s contract in it (if needed). 

Or Ward. This could be his peak too. There’s still some hope Adell or Marsh could flank Trout in the OF as soon as next year (bleak as that may look right now), or the Angels could try to actually plug an OF spot with a vet via FA instead of AAAA infielders. You’ve got Conforto, Joc, Grossman, Benintendi, Brantley, Peralta, Duvall, two Dickersons, Grossman, heck bring Upton back this year since we’re already paying him. There’s options.

Ward, Walsh and Sandoval all will start being eligible for arbitration this winter I believe too, and while they won’t be expensive one year in by any means, they’ll also start costing money, which given our payroll limitations, multiple needs, and desire to retain Ohtani, turning one of these guys into 3 pre-arb players could help facilitate that. Huge risk, huge roll of the dice, but if you hit right it could go a long way to “rebuilding” without rebuilding, which seems to be the Angels’ goal they can’t seem to execute. The Angels should’ve moved Richards and Calhoun at peak of their value when Eppler came in and they walked for nada. 

A smart team would cash in on the value and opportunity to move one of these guys for the right players now, but, also don’t have a ton of faith in the Angels actually acquiring the right players either. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by totdprods

[AngelsLakersFan]

13 minutes ago, totdprods said:

You could move one of those guys in the right deal and it wouldn’t tank 2023, or at the very least wouldn’t be throwing in the towel. 

I’d have to think someone like Sandoval would be really intriguing to Toronto given their rotation injuries and playoff hopes, and they have the farm to offer a couple pieces that could help the Angels in 2023. Losing Sandoval would be a big loss, but cashing in on a guy we got for a back-up rental catcher at perhaps the peak of his value would not be a totally stupid move. If it netted the Angels something like (totally off top of head, spitballing!) Groshans, Biggio (lol it tried autocorrecting to Bigfoot), and a strong pitching prospect in AA or better, have to think about it, especially if you could clear maybe Loup or Tepera’s contract in it (if needed). 

Or Ward. This could be his peak too. There’s still some hope Adell or Marsh could flank Trout in the OF as soon as next year (bleak as that may look right now), or the Angels could try to actually plug an OF spot with a vet via FA instead of AAAA infielders. You’ve got Conforto, Joc, Grossman, Benintendi, Brantley, Peralta, Duvall, two Dickersons, Grossman, heck bring Upton back this year since we’re already paying him. There’s options.

I don't get it. What is the benefit of trading Sandoval? How does that improve the team?

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I don't get it. What is the benefit of trading Sandoval? How does that improve the team?

It doesn't. There's 0 benefit to it.

[tdawg87]

4 years of club control and he's our 2nd best pitcher.

Just yeah. No.

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I don't get it. What is the benefit of trading Sandoval? How does that improve the team?

When teams make a trade, there’s typically a goal of obtaining useful value and players back in a trade too. They’re not giving him away. 

And it was just a hypothetical. I mentioned Ward and Iglesias too.

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

When teams make a trade, there’s typically a goal of obtaining useful value and players back in a trade too. They’re not giving him away. 

And it was just a hypothetical. I mentioned Ward and Iglesias too.

I can understand trading all of them. But what is the point in trading one or two? You aren't getting two Sandoval's back for one Sandoval.

[Angels 1961]

38 minutes ago, eligrba said:

The core group is better than how they are performing.  Before adding or subtracting players, the Angels need to fix their player development infrastructure. 

How long will that take 5, 6 or more losing seasons?

[Docwaukee]

there's a law of diminishing return for guys who are good and club controlled.  Do we ever see a team trade a really good player with more than 3 years of control.  Typically it's 1 to 2.  Mostly because Mostly because trying to obtain the additional value for that extra year or two isn't linear.  Teams have a finite amount of value available in their org.  

[Angels 1961]

10 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I can understand trading all of them. But what is the point in trading one or two? You aren't getting two Sandoval's back for one Sandoval.

You can just sign Pablo Sandoval

[totdprods]

12 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I can understand trading all of them. But what is the point in trading one or two? You aren't getting two Sandoval's back for one Sandoval.

Take the focus off Sandoval then and look at Ward. Like I said, hypothetical. We don’t know what is out there or who would be offered. Maybe a pitching-rich org does offer two Sandovals back for one Sandoval - just a couple years removed from MLB effectiveness. Maybe Detmers ascends into Sandoval’s tole by end of of year. Look at what the Blue Jays dealt for Berrios, maybe there’s a pitching equivalent out there for Sandoval. Tampa, San Diego, Toronto…all have tight payrolls and deep farms and could pay up MLB-ready players for him. Maybe the Angels free up some salary by adding Loup or Tepera and sign Rodon this winter. I don’t know. Selling high on Ward could be just as fruitful. Adell and Marsh don’t look like much now but both still have the potential to be above-average outfielders in the bigs even if that doesn’t look likely right now. Ward was in the exact same boat a couple years back.

Edited July 23, 2022 by totdprods

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Take the focus off Sandoval then and look at Ward. Like I said, hypothetical. We don’t know what is out there or who would be offered. Maybe a pitching-rich org does offer two Sandovals back for one Sandoval - just a couple years removed from MLB effectiveness. Maybe Detmers ascends into Sandoval’s tole by end of of year. Look at what the Blue Jays dealt for Berrios, maybe there’s a pitching equivalent out there for Sandoval. Tampa, San Diego, Toronto…all have tight payrolls and deep farms and could pay up MLB-ready players for him. Maybe the Angels free up some salary by adding Loup or Tepera and sign Rodon this winter. I don’t know. Selling high on Ward could be just as fruitful. Adell and Marsh don’t look like much now but both still have the potential to be above-average outfielders in the bigs even if that doesn’t look likely right now. Ward was in the exact same boat a couple years back.

I'm sorry but even suggesting trading Sandoval is stupid. He's exactly what this team needs right now. Young, cost controlled starters who are actually good. How many of those has this team had over the last 12 years? And I think this is the second time you've mentioned him in a "hypothetical" trade scenario.

Again, I'm sorry, but hypothetical or not it's absolutely stupid.

[AngelsLakersFan]

6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Take the focus off Sandoval then and look at Ward. Like I said, hypothetical. We don’t know what is out there or who would be offered. Maybe a pitching-rich org does offer two Sandovals back for one Sandoval - just a couple years removed from MLB effectiveness. Maybe Detmers ascends into Sandoval’s tole by end of of year. Maybe the Angels free up some salary by adding Loup or Tepera and sign Rodon this winter. I don’t know. Selling high on Ward could be just as fruitful. Adell and Marsh don’t look like much now but both still have the potential to be above-average outfielders in the bigs even if that doesn’t look likely right now. Ward was in the exact same boat a couple years back.

It still doesn't add up to me. The strategy here is that Minasian needs to be the smartest guy in the room, but if that was true we wouldn't be here right now. Fleecing team's in trades isn't a sound strategy.

If the strategy is to trade current value for future value I am fine with it, but go all in. This team is already bad with Sandoval and Ward and it will be worse without them, so trade everything that isn't nailed down and rebuild.