Bowden: “[The Angels] are fielding phone calls and they are listening [on Ohtani]”

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Never hurts to kick the tires of players that are approaching FA and on teams performing poorly.  I was curious so I looked up team salaries and winning percentage and of the top 10 team salaries (according to Sportrac) in MLB only 2 are currently under .500.  The other team is the Whitesox who are 1 game below .500 and 7 games better than the Angels. 

[totdprods]

11 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm sorry but even suggesting trading Sandoval is stupid. He's exactly what this team needs right now. Young, cost controlled starters who are actually good. How many of those has this team had over the last 12 years? And I think this is the second time you've mentioned him in a "hypothetical" trade scenario.

Again, I'm sorry, but hypothetical or not it's absolutely stupid.

Because he’s arguably the most valuable player on this team that could actually be dealt - I do not see Trout or Ohtani being dealt because Arte. Ward is probably there too - I’m just under the impression pitching brings back better returns, but really Ward makes as much or more sense and he may be just as valuable.

The Angels are being killed because of a lack of depth once again - other things too, but this year IMO it’s really been lack of depth/options. The bullpen, the rotation, the infield, the outfield. We’re forced to play players that aren’t ready (Silseth, arguably Detmers), players that don’t deserve everyday roles (Velazquez, Wade), or prospects that we have no choice but to stick with for lack of better options (Adell, Marsh, maybe Suarez, Rengifo). For years now, the Angels haven’t spent money to fill out the floor - or at least haven’t done it well - or haven’t developed players to do that. 

Sandoval and Ward are at a point where teams would pay handsomely for either, and it’s not beyond the pale to think either could land multiple players that could positively impact the 2023 team. Maybe not to the same scope that Sandoval or Ward did, but if that return provides help that is measurably better than one of Marsh/Adell, markedly better than one of our infielders, and even half the value that Ward/Sandoval provided, we probably are a better team, at least floor-wise, in the aggregate - and then we’d be counting on (once again) health and above-average performance from Trout, Ohtani, lesser-degree Rendon, Fletcher, Walsh and significant improvement from Detmers/Marsh/Adell to add the additional gains. There’s a lot of ifs there, but there’s a lot of moves that need to be made (FA this winter) or things that need to happen regardless of keeping Sandoval/Ward (like youngsters developing, people staying healthy).

There is no clear-cut, obvious, smart, easy way to fix this team for 2023 improvement. So yeah, stupid ideas like this could be floated. 

[Second Base]

26 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

there's a law of diminishing return for guys who are good and club controlled.  Do we ever see a team trade a really good player with more than 3 years of control.  Typically it's 1 to 2.  Mostly because Mostly because trying to obtain the additional value for that extra year or two isn't linear.  Teams have a finite amount of value available in their org.  

Andrelton Simmons. 

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Not saying that the above will or should happen, just that Perry will and should listen.

Yes and every GM who calls, Minasian should address as "sir."

[totdprods]

16 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

It still doesn't add up to me. The strategy here is that Minasian needs to be the smartest guy in the room, but if that was true we wouldn't be here right now. Fleecing team's in trades isn't a sound strategy.

If the strategy is to trade current value for future value I am fine with it, but go all in. This team is already bad with Sandoval and Ward and it will be worse without them, so trade everything that isn't nailed down and rebuild. 

I wouldn’t be against going all in and trading both. In a vacuum that probably makes the most sense for the Angels. But once you consider Arte wanting to surely compete in 2023 and the risk of alienating Trout or Ohtani, it’s probably not realistic that they don’t go full rebuild. Which I agree, dealing one of these is stupid. But that doesn’t really diverge from how the Angels FO has operated the last decade. It’s less about what I would do, or what I would feel is smartest, but trying to find the middle ground of what it is realistic in achieving goals of competing in 2023, adding more talent, appeasing Arte, and keeping Ohtani and Trout at least somewhat optimistic about the 2023 team. Considering all of that, moving one of those guys seems like it could be in play to meet those goals. But I agree. Move all of them except Ohtani and Trout and go full-rebuild is the smartest move. Just not very likely. I don’t see Arte liking it, I don’t know that Trout or Ohtani would want to wait until 2025 for that plan to actualize. But maybe they do!

[failos]

Good. Trade Ohtani and I’ll stop following this team

[AngelsFaninGA]

36 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

there's a law of diminishing return for guys who are good and club controlled.  Do we ever see a team trade a really good player with more than 3 years of control.  Typically it's 1 to 2.  Mostly because Mostly because trying to obtain the additional value for that extra year or two isn't linear.  Teams have a finite amount of value available in their org.  

Plus even teams like the A's and Marlins don't wave the white flag 3-4 years in advance

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

I wouldn’t be against going all in and trading both. In a vacuum that probably makes the most sense for the Angels. But once you consider Arte wanting to surely compete in 2023 and the risk of alienating Trout or Ohtani, it’s probably not realistic that they don’t go full rebuild. Which I agree, dealing one of these is stupid. But that doesn’t really diverge from how the Angels FO has operated the last decade. It’s less about what I would do, or what I would feel is smartest, but trying to find the middle ground of what it is realistic in achieving goals of competing in 2023, adding more talent, appeasing Arte, and keeping Ohtani and Trout at least somewhat optimistic about the 2023 team. Considering all of that, moving one of those guys seems like it could be in play to meet those goals. But I agree. Move all of them except Ohtani and Trout and go full-rebuild is the smartest move. Just not very likely. I don’t see Arte liking it, I don’t know that Trout or Ohtani would want to wait until 2025 for that plan to actualize. But maybe they do!

Well they need to trade Ohtani too in this scenario... he's the guy that can make the rebuild happen. If you can get 3 great pieces for him maybe you can combine them with the current young core who managed to establish themselves along with the remnants of Trout's career and a couple of good FA signings to have a really nice core in 2024-26. But I get what you are saying in the sense that the organization is unlikely to pursue an optimal strategy. If we assume they are going to keep fucking it up then some of these scenarios are on the table... like trading your first round pick to free up money for Rendon. It makes sense in a twisted way, which is how I see the Sandoval/Ward trade scenarios.

[Second Base]

I feel as though the baseball world is hoping for an Ohtani trade, because of how exciting it would be. But from an on field perspective, trading him doesn't make a lot of sense at this deadline. 

[Jason]

Why would a team not call and inquire? I think most are wanting to make their clubs better 

[totdprods]

18 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Well they need to trade Ohtani too in this scenario... he's the guy that can make the rebuild happen. If you can get 3 great pieces for him maybe you can combine them with the current young core who managed to establish themselves along with the remnants of Trout's career and a couple of good FA signings to have a really nice core in 2024-26. But I get what you are saying in the sense that the organization is unlikely to pursue an optimal strategy. If we assume they are going to keep fucking it up then some of these scenarios are on the table... like trading your first round pick to free up money for Rendon. It makes sense in a twisted way, which is how I see the Sandoval/Ward trade scenarios.

To you and me, that might make sense in that scenario, but that just gets back to the point I made about Arte and Trout/Ohtani. It makes sense if we were going to do that, but rarely does it make sense.

Putting more thought into it, selling high on Ward as the lone “rebuild” deal this summer is really the most sensible one, not Sandoval, short of going full rebuild. Just falling back on the belief that Adell or Marsh could be at least average everyday players still as soon as 2023, or the belief that you could make a solid corner outfield signing this winter. Ward actually has tremendous value on that simulator website FWIW. I haven’t paid nearly enough attention this year to even know what teams need an OF or have the pieces to match. Sandoval? The most I had thought out was Blue Jays around Groshans/catcher/SP, or Padres maybe around Snell, prospects, and another pitcher. Maybe Ward would fit similarly for some of these teams.

[DMVol]

34 minutes ago, failos said:

Good. Trade Ohtani and I’ll stop following this team

You promise? Cross your heart and hope to die?

[Inside Pitch]

"Not even for 300 million dollars and a million alpacas" -- Perry Minasian Depp

[DMVol]

9 minutes ago, totdprods said:

To you and me, that might make sense in that scenario, but that just gets back to the point I made about Arte and Trout/Ohtani. It makes sense if we were going to do that, but rarely does it make sense.

Putting more thought into it, selling high on Ward as the lone “rebuild” deal this summer is really the most sensible one, not Sandoval, short of going full rebuild. Just falling back on the belief that Adell or Marsh could be at least average everyday players still as soon as 2023, or the belief that you could make a solid corner outfield signing this winter. Ward actually has tremendous value on that simulator website FWIW. I haven’t paid nearly enough attention this year to even know what teams need an OF or have the pieces to match. Sandoval? The most I had thought out was Blue Jays around Groshans/catcher/SP, or Padres maybe around Snell, prospects, and another pitcher. Maybe Ward would fit similarly for some of these teams.

There is some logic in trading Ward now....I might also think about Rengifo.....but not Sandoval....

[Angels 1961]

45 minutes ago, failos said:

Good. Trade Ohtani and I’ll stop following this team

NO anything but that

[Angels 1961]

41 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I feel as though the baseball world is hoping for an Ohtani trade, because of how exciting it would be. But from an on field perspective, trading him doesn't make a lot of sense at this deadline. 

Depends on what you get. Angels only have him for 1 more season

[failos]

18 minutes ago, DMVol said:

You promise? Cross your heart and hope to die?

Fuck off

[DMVol]

3 minutes ago, failos said:

Fuck off

[totdprods]

16 minutes ago, DMVol said:

There is some logic in trading Ward now....I might also think about Rengifo.....but not Sandoval....

I continue to believe in Rengifo. I don’t think he’s played well enough that he’d net a return I’d be happy with yet. Rather he gets everyday playing time the rest of the year. I still think he could be a strong everyday player for us. Trade him in a year or two when he’s established and Neto or Jackson or one of the other kids are ready.

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

I continue to believe in Rengifo. I don’t think he’s played well enough that he’d net a return I’d be happy with yet. Rather he gets everyday playing time the rest of the year. I still think he could be a strong everyday player for us. Trade him in a year or two when he’s established and Neto or Jackson or one of the other kids are ready.

Not sure what Ward would bring either....he doesn't exactly have a long track record of success.....Good news is you don't have to trade either one....doesn't hurt to see what other teams are thinking.....

[fan_since79]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

What if the Dodgers offer a 200-page manual on how to scout and develop a farm system, and throw in any five prospects of the Angels choosing?

 

That's it! The missing piece!

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, DMVol said:

Not sure what Ward would bring either....he doesn't exactly have a long track record of success.....Good news is you don't have to trade either one....doesn't hurt to see what other teams are thinking.....

Am I mistaken but doesn't most players with 4 years club control don't have a long track record?

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

Am I mistaken but doesn't most players with 4 years club control don't have a long track record?

True that…but he’s also 28, not a young guy…Trout at 28 was an elite player….the question was should we consider trading him…for the same reason the Angels might consider it, I might be a little leery of trading for a 28 year old guy with a half year of above average production, if I were another team….not sure it’s a realistic scenario, to be honest…

[Dtwncbad]

7 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

4 years of club control and he's our 2nd best pitcher.

Just yeah. No.

Yes.  In fact, Sandoval might be the last player I would trade, period.

I want him next year if I am trying to win and I also want to just keep him if I was going to trade  everybody for young emerging talent.

[Jason]

6 hours ago, failos said:

Good. Trade Ohtani and I’ll stop following this team

The quality of baseball they are giving us is doing it for me