The Official 2022 MLB Season Thread

[Ender]

Yeah I straight up didn't have a good time today. 

[Revad]

Anthony Franco has an article on MLBTrade Rumora on 2023 FA first basemen.  Solano would fit because he can play 1st and 3rd (bench guy).

• Donovan Solano (35)

Drury’s former teammate in Cincinnati, Solano plays a similar bat-first utility role. He’s worked mostly as a designated hitter this year, but he’s played frequently at the corner infield spots and second base as well. He’s hitting .292/.343/.397 over 280 plate appearances, his fourth straight above-average offensive year since reemerging late in his career as a member of the Giants. A glove-first second baseman early in his career with the Marlins, he’s compensated for declining defensive marks by hitting .280 or better in four consecutive seasons. Solano doesn’t walk much or have a ton of power, but his high-average game is atypical in today’s offensive environment. As with Drury, teams aren’t going to view him as an everyday option at first base, but he’s a good addition to a bench who can cover multiple spots on the infield.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/09/previewing-the-2022-23-free-agent-class-first-basemen.html

[Blarg]

. 397 slugging is not a bat first player. That is a slap hitter without the defensive skills to validate keeping him in the lineup. 

[jsnpritchett]

1 hour ago, Revad said:

Anthony Franco has an article on MLBTrade Rumora on 2023 FA first basemen.  Solano would fit because he can play 1st and 3rd (bench guy).

• Donovan Solano (35)

Drury’s former teammate in Cincinnati, Solano plays a similar bat-first utility role. He’s worked mostly as a designated hitter this year, but he’s played frequently at the corner infield spots and second base as well. He’s hitting .292/.343/.397 over 280 plate appearances, his fourth straight above-average offensive year since reemerging late in his career as a member of the Giants. A glove-first second baseman early in his career with the Marlins, he’s compensated for declining defensive marks by hitting .280 or better in four consecutive seasons. Solano doesn’t walk much or have a ton of power, but his high-average game is atypical in today’s offensive environment. As with Drury, teams aren’t going to view him as an everyday option at first base, but he’s a good addition to a bench who can cover multiple spots on the infield.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/09/previewing-the-2022-23-free-agent-class-first-basemen.html

 

3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

. 397 slugging is not a bat first player. That is a slap hitter without the defensive skills to validate keeping him in the lineup. 

If he's cheap and is literally the last guy to fill out the 26-man roster, I can kind of squint and make it make a little sense.  But he also strikes me as the type of guy who could just completely fall off the cliff at any time.  He doesn't walk much and his BABIP has been freakishly high since 2019 (lowest has been .321...every other year has been .350+).  I'm not sure what's going on there, as I don't see anything else in his batted-ball profile that really stands out and he's not particularly fast.  So if for some reason, his BABIP starts normalizing, then you're looking a guy who's gonna slash something like .250/.290/.330 or something--and for a corner IF, that's not very helpful.

[Revad]

He might work as a bench player, is what I was thinking.  We’ll need a better bench.  .292/343/397 over 280 plate appearances is good for that role.  

[Blarg]

That looks like platoon numbers to help his average along. This guy is not what the Angels need to become more competitive. 

[Stradling]

On 9/24/2022 at 12:55 PM, m0nkey said:

Another Rays pitcher goes down.  In recent years, they've had Glasnow, Honeywell, McKay (#4 overall pick in 2017 and has been hit hard with injuries the past few seasons), and now Baz.  These guys weren't bum minor leaguers either, all top prospects at one point.

 

 

So maybe it's not just the Angels?

I wonder if they find a way to get the very most out of their pitchers with zero care about their long term health. 

[Revad]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

That looks like platoon numbers to help his average along. This guy is not what the Angels need to become more competitive. 

Who do you suggest for a bench player and what sort of stats should he have?

[Inside Pitch]

11 hours ago, Revad said:

Who do you suggest for a bench player and what sort of stats should he have?

The two greatest factors for generating offense are getting on base and hitting for power.   Bench or starters -- those guys should always be the target. 

Speed is fun, can be useful, but is more of a niche thing and over the course of a season much less useful.  think Tyler Wade.   Dude can fly but his career .291 OBP makes him a niche player and not all that useful.  Also, positional flexibility is a luxury, not a necessity. 

So what should they be looking at?   Basically the opposite of what the Angels did this last offseason when building their bench.

[Angelsjunky]

22 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

The two greatest factors for generating offense are getting on base and hitting for power.   Bench or starters -- those guys should always be the target. 

Speed is fun, can be useful, but is more of a niche thing and over the course of a season much less useful.  think Tyler Wade.   Dude can fly but his career .291 OBP makes him a nice player and not all that useful.  Also, positional flexibility is a luxury, not a necessity. 

So what should they be looking at?   Basically the opposite of what the Angels did this last offseason when building their bench.

Yeah, I tend to think of it in terms of primary (very important) and secondary (nice, but optional):

Primary: getting on base, hitting for power, defense

Secondary: speed, positional flexibility, other/intangibles

It also depends upon the position and role. Defense is more important up the middle. If I have a first baseman who gets on base and hits for power, defense is nice but not a requirement. And for any elite bat, positional flexibility is nice but a luxury.

And it also depends upon degree. Mike Piazza was a notoriously poor defensive catcher, but was such a good hitter that he more than made up for it (FG's Def paints him a bit rosy, but Def especially questionable going back beyond the last 15 years). On the other side of the spectrum, Andrelton Simmons had an 81 wRC+ in 2015 but was so good defensively that he still managed a 3.1 WAR.

As far as the bench is concerned, there's no formula and a mixture of qualities is best. It is nice if everyone can get on base and/or hit for power, but if no one can play defense, there's a problem. There's a place for a guy like Velazquez on a major league bench - especially if your starting SS is mediocre defensively - but only if you have other guys who can hit. Meaning, you don't want Velazquez coming in to pinch-hit, but you do want him coming in to play defense with a ground ball closer pitching. And I'll never forget how the Royals used Jarrod Dyson in the 2014-15 postseasons.

I think it is tempting to focus on specific things, single them out as more important than everything else. But one thing WAR does capture quite well is that all aspects of the game go into winning (or losing). It is like a soup. If you have juicy chunks of steak it will go a long way, but if the broth is watery and the vegetables overcooked, and you don't use enough spices or--the biggest mistake of all--too much salt, the soup is poor or even ruined.

(Vegan cooking is like team-building without stars and with little power. It can still be done to make delicious food--or build a good team--but you have to do everything else really well).

[ukyah]

i somewhat disagree. i think defense should be higher in the priority list for bench players. if you can get an above average bat for your bench, then great. most times that guy is going to not only be coveted by other teams as well, but also looking for a starting opportunity somewhere. in regards to the bench, run supression becomes akin to run scoring. you just need to find a defensive specialist with just enough bat to not kill you. valezquez was that at times this year, just not consistently enough yet.

having said that, the angels can not go into next year with literally a complete void of hitting 5-9, if not 4-9. these are some of the reasons why the angels lack of depth has tanked their seasons going on forever. add the team sale, which is ultimately good news if sold to the right owner, and i think it's just too much to overcome once again.

[Docwaukee]

34 minutes ago, ukyah said:

i somewhat disagree. i think defense should be higher in the priority list for bench players. if you can get an above average bat for your bench, then great. most times that guy is going to not only be coveted by other teams as well, but also looking for a starting opportunity somewhere. in regards to the bench, run supression becomes akin to run scoring. you just need to find a defensive specialist with just enough bat to not kill you. valezquez was that at times this year, just not consistently enough yet.

having said that, the angels can not go into next year with literally a complete void of hitting 5-9, if not 4-9. these are some of the reasons why the angels lack of depth has tanked their seasons going on forever. add the team sale, which is ultimately good news if sold to the right owner, and i think it's just too much to overcome once again.

You can garner a decent chunk of value at C or SS on the defensive side to make the bat less important.   But not for the guys backing up 1b, 3b, LF, and RF.  Borderline for CF.  The 10th guy could get more at bats than any of the starting 9 depending on how the season goes.  So a lack of PT isn't an issue.  With the way at bats are divided these days, You essentially have to think of your starting lineup as 11 players.  If not 12.  And if you pay them like a starter (see Chris Taylor) then I doubt guys will be too annoyed unless you promise them a different role and then switch it up.  

You can't let your team give a 1bman 454 PA for -0.6 WAR and back him up with Matt Thaiss, Mike Ford, Phil Gosselin, Matt Duff, and David MacKinnon.  If you don't have a reasonable prospect, you better damn well have a legit backup 1bman going into 2023 if you're gonna rely on Walsh to rebound.  And that bat better be the reason the guy has value.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

i somewhat disagree. i think defense should be higher in the priority list for bench players. if you can get an above average bat for your bench, then great. most times that guy is going to not only be coveted by other teams as well, but also looking for a starting opportunity somewhere. in regards to the bench, run supression becomes akin to run scoring. you just need to find a defensive specialist with just enough bat to not kill you. valezquez was that at times this year, just not consistently enough yet.

having said that, the angels can not go into next year with literally a complete void of hitting 5-9, if not 4-9. these are some of the reasons why the angels lack of depth has tanked their seasons going on forever. add the team sale, which is ultimately good news if sold to the right owner, and i think it's just too much to overcome once again.

Defense should always be THE priority. 

Run prevention > run production when it comes to wins, this has been proven to death over the years. The issue as you pointed out is you cant roll out a 5-9 like the Angels did and expect to win.  When you do that you're not looking to the defense/pitching to offer prevention, you're asking for perfection.

But as far as what offensive stats to look for when building a bench... same shit you look for in your starters, the ability to get on base and drive the ball.

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

You can garner a decent chunk of value at C or SS on the defensive side to make the bat less important.   But not for the guys backing up 1b, 3b, LF, and RF.  Borderline for CF.  The 10th guy could get more at bats than any of the starting 9 depending on how the season goes.  So a lack of PT isn't an issue.  With the way at bats are divided these days, You essentially have to think of your starting lineup as 11 players.  If not 12.  And if you pay them like a starter (see Chris Taylor) then I doubt guys will be too annoyed unless you promise them a different role and then switch it up.  

You can't let your team give a 1bman 454 PA for -0.6 WAR and back him up with Matt Thaiss, Mike Ford, Phil Gosselin, Matt Duff, and David MacKinnon.  If you don't have a reasonable prospect, you better damn well have a legit backup 1bman going into 2023 if you're gonna rely on Walsh to rebound.  And that bat better be the reason the guy has value.  

i don't disagree with any of that, but i don't think that really was a counter to what i said.

none of the angels back ups were what you should be looking for, other than rengifo or fletcher, and velazquez defensively and at times with the bat, especially after giving up switch hitting. although i don't know what the numbers are now, just going by the different streaks he had. 

chris taylor and other dodger bench players are a luxury few teams can afford to have. there's a reason the dodgers have the highest payroll in mlb.

anyways, the angels need to get better at too many places for them to realistically address at their payroll and it's been that way for years. if the angels are going to be any good next year they need a 1-9 that can carry their own water offensively. my only point was that run supression is equal to run scoring and it seemed like that was being undervalued on this thread.

 

[ukyah]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Defense should always be THE priority. 

Run prevention > run production when it comes to wins, this has been proven to death over the years. The issue as you pointed out is you cant roll out a 5-9 like the Angels did and expect to win.  When you do that you're not looking to the defense/pitching to offer prevention, you're asking for perfection.

But as far as what offensive stats to look for when building a bench... same shit you look for in your starters, the ability to get on base and drive the ball.

100%

[Blarg]

The problem most Angels fans have had over the last 7 years is watching bench players put in more time than the starters and get confused thinking they should have the same level of production. If they did then why pay for a Trout, Rendon, Ohtani... 

Bench players are like little kids, they should be seen but not heard much. That requires the starters to play 140+ games a year. That's the real goal. If any one bench player puts in more than 50 games a year, something went terribly wrong. 

Velazquez played 125 games. Duffy 69, Wade 67, and a cast of thousands (19) put in too many games collectively as crap replacement value players. We had a considerable amount of games that the OPS+ of the replacement players were under 60. That includes regulars like Stassi and Suzuki. 

That is completely unsustainable to win. Something has to change and that involves the core roster staying on the field and the bench being of a higher quality replacement level. They don't have to hit like Trout but they damn well better be able to field their position at a high level and sport a 90 OPS+ or better and I don't care if that is through singles, bunts and walks but fuck this strike out three times a game and then pop out to shallow outfield or hit into a shift. 

 

 

[arch stanton]

Yankees-BlueJays game 4 total walks allowed. All Judge. That’s one way to keep him from setting the record against you 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

On 9/27/2022 at 7:58 PM, Inside Pitch said:

Defense should always be THE priority. 

In moderation. I watched the Braves of the 1990s and early 2000s lose in the playoffs time and time again, in large part because they had no bats on the bench. GM John Schuerholz's obsession with glove men was taken to extremes. There is no question that it was helpful especially early in the careers of Tom Glavine, John Smoltz and Steve Avery. That said, when the guys on the field AND the guys on the bench were all brought in primarily for defense, you have nobody to get a key hit late in a game during the time of year when the stakes are the highest and runs are generally a a premium. When you're one out from elimination and your only available pinch hitter is Otis Nixon, who at the time was literally the worst hitter in MLB, that drives the point home.

Fourteen straight division titles, one world championship with possibly the greatest rotation ever assembled, especially after Greg Maddux arrived.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Vegas Halo Fan

[ukyah]

13 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

In moderation. I watched the Braves of the 1990s and early 2000s lose in the playoffs time and time again, in large part because they had no bats on the bench. GM John Schuerholz's obsession with glove men was taken to extremes. There is no question that it was helpful especially early in the careers of Tom Glavine, John Smoltz and Steve Avery. That said, when the guys on the field AND the guys on the bench were all brought in primarily for defense, you have nobody to get a key hit late in a game during the time of year when the stakes are the highest and runs are generally a a premium. When you're one out from elimination and your only available pinch hitter is Otis Nixon, who at the time was literally the worst hitter in MLB, that drives the point home.

Fourteen straight division titles, one world championship with possibly the greatest rotation ever assembled, especially after Greg Maddux arrived.

what comes to mind for me is all the october heroes who were ancilliary players on their team's roster. 

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

In moderation. I watched the Braves of the 1990s and early 2000s lose in the playoffs time and time again, in large part because they had no bats on the bench. GM John Schuerholz's obsession with glove men was taken to extremes. There is no question that it was helpful especially early in the careers of Tom Glavine, John Smoltz and Steve Avery. That said, when the guys on the field AND the guys on the bench were all brought in primarily for defense, you have nobody to get a key hit late in a game during the time of year when the stakes are the highest and runs are generally a a premium.

Fourteen straight division titles, one world championship with possibly the greatest rotation ever assembled, especially after Greg Maddux arrived.

So you saw them reach the playoffs on a consistent basis for over a decade?  Yeah, sounds awful.  

As I have said previously, teams should aim to build their offensive bench pieces the same way they do their starters, meaning guys who get on base or/and hit for power.  If your focus is on having a speed guy, a multi-position guy and other niche specialists over guys that contribute to scoring youll regret it.

You don't ignore offense, but winning teams make run prevention a priority.

[fan_since79]

Well, goodbye Baltimore...pretty much over for them. They ran out of gas.

Seattle will be in the postseason. Ugh.

[Taylor]

Aaron Judge tied the Maris record today.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

So you saw them reach the playoffs on a consistent basis for over a decade?  Yeah, sounds awful.  

As I have said previously, teams should aim to build their offensive bench pieces the same way they do their starters, meaning guys who get on base or/and hit for power.  If your focus is on having a speed guy, a multi-position guy and other niche specialists over guys that contribute to scoring youll regret it.

You don't ignore offense, but winning teams make run prevention a priority.

When you get bounced every single time, you reach the point when you had rather not get in at al!.

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

So you saw them reach the playoffs on a consistent basis for over a decade?  Yeah, sounds awful.  

As I have said previously, teams should aim to build their offensive bench pieces the same way they do their starters, meaning guys who get on base or/and hit for power.  If your focus is on having a speed guy, a multi-position guy and other niche specialists over guys that contribute to scoring youll regret it.

You don't ignore offense, but winning teams make run prevention a priority.

positional versatility is great.  But let's be clear.  Rojas still sucks.  Just at more spots.  I would argue that your best two bench players might actually need to be better (or of higher potential WAR) than your worst two position players.  I know that sounds weird, but for a team with a decent yet not unlimited budget, you are probably going to try and get away with Stassi at C and Fletcher at SS.  But the 800 PA from your top two bench players need to be at least 2 win players each.  Maybe that's a bit extreme, but they have been terrible at avoiding letting 15 other guys split almost 1000 at bats of just pure crap.  

At least give me one guy that can give you 400+ at bats of 2 WAR off the bench.  If they could somehow find a SS then that could easily be Fletcher.  Then the other guy can be the backup 1b/LF but better than duffy.  I don't think I can live with 0.1 WAR every 225 PA from that player.  

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, Taylor said:

Aaron Judge tied the Maris record today.

Saw that at the stadium tonight. All of the monitors in the walkways were broadcasting it.