The Official 2022 Los Angeles Angels Minor League Stats, Reports & Scouting Thread

[Chuck]

6 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Can someone who follows him more than I've been tell me more about Bachman?  I know he's been hurt, but he's getting killed tonight and his numbers coming into tonight were just ok, at least in terms of BB/9 and K/9.  I've seen some folks on here suggest he might even be an option for the Angels rotation next year.  Based on the limited info I'm looking at, that seems like a real stretch.  What am I missing?

He's not 100% healthy, that's all I keep hearing from people. Fastball velo as a result is way down, as is the bite on his slider. 

[Angel Oracle]

26 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

He's not 100% healthy, that's all I keep hearing from people. Fastball velo as a result is way down, as is the bite on his slider. 

Will need another season in AA in 2023, and needs to stay healthy.

[jsnpritchett]

38 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

He's not 100% healthy, that's all I keep hearing from people. Fastball velo as a result is way down, as is the bite on his slider. 

3 2/3 IP, 7 H, 7 R (4 earned, though from looking at the play-by-play, it doesn't seem like 3 should have been unearned?), 3 BB, 1K.  71 pitches, only 37 strikes.  Ugh.

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

He's not 100% healthy, that's all I keep hearing from people. Fastball velo as a result is way down, as is the bite on his slider. 

So why is he pitching?

Seems incredibly dumb to throw him out there when he’s not 100% healthy and it’s clearly affecting his stuff and results.

[Chuck]

13 minutes ago, Trendon said:

So why is he pitching?

Seems incredibly dumb to throw him out there when he’s not 100% healthy and it’s clearly affecting his stuff and results.

Good question. I'll ask around when I'm down there next weekend. I'll even ask Sam what's up. 

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

He's not 100% healthy, that's all I keep hearing from people. Fastball velo as a result is way down, as is the bite on his slider. 

Why is he throwing then?  They should be smarter than that, have him pitch to guys in AZ or something.  Why would they risk him trying to overthrow or alter his mechanics to pitch with diminished velocity?   If that's the story, sounds extremely suspect IMO.

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Why is he throwing then?  They should be smarter than that, have him pitch to guys in AZ or something.  Why would they risk him trying to overthrow or alter his mechanics to pitch with diminished velocity?   If that's the story, sounds extremely suspect IMO.

I agree. I was talking with @taylorblakeward a couple days ago and he told me that Bachman isn't fully back yet and not 100% healthy. 

I'm guessing that he's not in any pain or anything, but is dealing with a dead arm or some type of leg or arm fatigue? 

[Second Base]

7 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

Thaiss has looked very capable behind the plate.  Obviously he'd be more of a 'bat first' backup which I'm not sure Minasian would be a fan of.  But the fact that he can also play 1b and potentially even fill in at 3b in a pinch give him enough value as a backup in my opinion.  Kurt Suzuki not only has a 60 wRC+ but he's also been below average defensively for a sum total of -0.7 WAR.  I don't care how good you are (supposedly) at working with pitchers, that's just unacceptable.  And it's not even the old Jeff Mathis argument for Kurt.  Mathis for his career was a tremendous defender and it could be argued that on a prorated basis, he was one of the best in the history of the game.  Anyway, Kurt and guys like him need to go.  I can make a much better argument for someone like Maldonado.  

And I am not rushing O'Hoppe up to play 50-70 games.  When he's ready, he's coming up and gonna be the primary starter and if max is still here then he can be the backup.  Unless they want to try to kick tires on getting him a 1b glove and see if that sticks so you can get his bat in the lineup but no way he's sitting on my bench for 2/3rds of the season with the occasional PH opportunity.  

As of right now, Moniak, Fletcher, and Thaiss are my bench for next year.  My fourth guy is someone better than Duffy.  

I obviously agree with you regarding Thaiss. It's not even up for debate with me, he's the reserve catcher. But major league teams, or at least the Angels, tend to think differently than I, for better and for worse. 

But I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that O'Hoppe is major league ready right now. He's an elite defender, a true pitching staff leader, appears to have elite on base ability and power for a catcher. This kid might be a star. Will playing in there PCL really make him any more prepared for major league success? 

The Angels were obviously in a different place when they inked Stassi's extension. He was coming off a career year, they were trending toward winning in the immediate, O'Hoppe was in the Phillies organization, Thaiss was still kind of new to the whole catching thing (at least new in the professional ranks) and Quero was a name to watch but no one knew he'd light A Ball on fire the way he has. 

So what's the answer then? Stash O'Hoppe in AAA, because we can? They won't trade Stassi this soon after an extension. In fact, the extension itself probably ensured he plays at minimum 80 games a year, on which case even if you promote O'Hoppe, he's only a part timer, so you're in essence promoting him to sit the bench. Do you part ways with Thaiss? 

I mean right now, yeah I'd put Fletcher and Stassi on the bench in favor of Rengifo and O'Hoppe. But the optics of it are bad. These guys didn't sign extensions because they believed they'd be part timers in a year. Furthermore, I'd stick Adell in AAA and leave him there. I'm not seeing any progression at the plate. He's gotten better in the field but that's only because he has nowhere to go but up.

Interesting decisions will need to be made soon. 

 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

I agree. I was talking with @taylorblakeward a couple days ago and he told me that Bachman isn't fully back yet and not 100% healthy. 

I'm guessing that he's not in any pain or anything, but is dealing with a dead arm or some type of leg or arm fatigue? 

that just doesn't make a lick of sense to me.  regardless, they should be shutting him down.  Even if he were 100% healthy, his velo is down like 9 mph.  Send him to instructs at least.  There is just way more harm to be done here than any potential good.  In fact, I really can't think of a single reason to have him keep pitching right now.  

[Docwaukee]

19 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I obviously agree with you regarding Thaiss. It's not even up for debate with me, he's the reserve catcher. But major league teams, or at least the Angels, tend to think differently than I, for better and for worse. 

But I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that O'Hoppe is major league ready right now. He's an elite defender, a true pitching staff leader, appears to have elite on base ability and power for a catcher. This kid might be a star. Will playing in there PCL really make him any more prepared for major league success? 

The Angels were obviously in a different place when they inked Stassi's extension. He was coming off a career year, they were trending toward winning in the immediate, O'Hoppe was in the Phillies organization, Thaiss was still kind of new to the whole catching thing (at least new in the professional ranks) and Quero was a name to watch but no one knew he'd light A Ball on fire the way he has. 

So what's the answer then? Stash O'Hoppe in AAA, because we can? They won't trade Stassi this soon after an extension. In fact, the extension itself probably ensured he plays at minimum 80 games a year, on which case even if you promote O'Hoppe, he's only a part timer, so you're in essence promoting him to sit the bench. Do you part ways with Thaiss? 

I mean right now, yeah I'd put Fletcher and Stassi on the bench in favor of Rengifo and O'Hoppe. But the optics of it are bad. These guys didn't sign extensions because they believed they'd be part timers in a year. Furthermore, I'd stick Adell in AAA and leave him there. I'm not seeing any progression at the plate. He's gotten better in the field but that's only because he has nowhere to go but up.

Interesting decisions will need to be made soon. 

 

I mentioned as much about Thaiss in my post and that Minasian is gonna want a veteran backup.  I have no doubt that will happen unfortunately.   You just can bring O'Hoppe up to sit the bench.  I agree that AAA probably doesn't do much for him but I'd rather he play.  The only other added benefit could be just getting more seasoning in how he handles pitchers.  By all accounts he's got the skill for it now.  But, again, unless they find a way to get his bat in the lineup regularly at the major league level, he's not riding pine on my team for half the year regardless of who else is getting paid what.  

And I know it's not reality probably, but the same applies to Fletcher.  Although a bit different, but ideally, you'd have that guy who's a capable defensive SS but that can play multiple positions including the OF.   Guys get hurt.  Guys need an off day.  etc.  And said guy needs to have a very capable bat.  In particular if you decide to go with Walsh at 1b next year, Adell in the OF etc.  You can't leave those spots as potential black holes again, if they don't come around  

BTW, is is just me or did Fletch's struggles coincide with Maddon being around and now that Joe is gone he's back to what he was a few years ago.  Probably coincidence and/or injury related more than anything.  Just thought I would bring it up.  

[Stradling]

We will probably learn that Bachman isn’t hurt but they either have him trying to take some velocity off his fastball to work on command or it’s a simple dead arm that lots of pitchers encounter.  If he was “hurt” he isn’t pitching.  
I agree the Angels will want to contend and that will require a back up catcher that’s caught more than 100 or so minor league games. I see Thais stabbing at the ball or maybe it isn’t stabbing as much as receiving the ball, but not holding it there to give the ump the look of the ball being a strike. 
As for Fletcher it isn’t Maddon, he was hurt.  Now that he’s healthy the jury is out because he doesn’t walk at all.  He’s at about a 4% walk rate. If that doesn’t improve then he will live and die by his batting average in a league that suppresses batting average. Oh and I don’t think the ban on infield shifts will help a guy like Fletcher. 

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

I see Thais stabbing at the ball or maybe it isn’t stabbing as much as receiving the ball, but not holding it there to give the ump the look of the ball being a strike. 

interesting.  I'm seeing the opposite actually.  Maybe I'm biased because I like him.  Tiny sample of metrics are positive although that small sample does show below avg metrics for framing so far.  To me, his d is good enough to be a backup when you've got the vet guy on the bench in Stassi that can assist in game.  Again, I know it ain't gonna happen so I fully expect a vet backup.  

[Angel Oracle]

Bachman’s main issues, as mentioned before, are velocity drop and control.

Doesn’t that sounds like someone who’s either not 100%,  or is going through dead arm period?

Actually, the control has been spotty all season (25 BBs in 37.1 innings).

[Inside Pitch]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

We will probably learn that Bachman isn’t hurt but they either have him trying to take some velocity off his fastball to work on command or it’s a simple dead arm that lots of pitchers encounter.  If he was “hurt” he isn’t pitching.  
I agree the Angels will want to contend and that will require a back up catcher that’s caught more than 100 or so minor league games. I see Thais stabbing at the ball or maybe it isn’t stabbing as much as receiving the ball, but not holding it there to give the ump the look of the ball being a strike. 
As for Fletcher it isn’t Maddon, he was hurt.  Now that he’s healthy the jury is out because he doesn’t walk at all.  He’s at about a 4% walk rate. If that doesn’t improve then he will live and die by his batting average in a league that suppresses batting average. Oh and I don’t think the ban on infield shifts will help a guy like Fletcher. 

I don't buy that he's trying to dial the velocity back because if the intention is to help with control, it's had the opposite effect.  He's one of those guys who's velocity helps his command as the late break is VERY late.    Agree about Fletcher not likely to see a big boost from limiting shifts.  His batted ball profile this year is hilariously balanced.  32.9% Pull, 33.5 Straight, 33.5% Opp.

And I may be in the same boat as Doc in maybe being biased, but I've actually been amazed that Thaiss had looked as good as he has behind the plate.

[Angelsjunky]

19 hours ago, Tank said:

can you provide a simple explanation for what wRC+ is and what would be a good number? TIA

 

18 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

Any stat that has a "+" after it just means it's being indexed--so 100 for any stat with a + is average, anything below 100 is below average, anything above 100 is above average.  Once you're more than 10 "index points" above or below 100, then you can starting taking that as meaningfully above or below average.

Runs Created in its simplest form is just [(Hits + Walks) X Total Bases] divided by (AB + Walks). 

To add on to jsnpritchett's excellent explanation, you could also look at it as a percentage. A 100 wRC+ is "100% of a major league average hitter" -- whatever that happens to be during a given year. In terms of more convention stats, it is mostly based on league average On-Base Percentage and Slugging Percentage, and then adjusted for other factors, including park. A 127 wRC+ is 27% better than average, and 200 wRC+ is 100% better than average, or twice average. Etc. Basically it is very similar to OPS+, although some feel it is a bit more accurate.

As a general rule, 90-110 is average range. 110-130 is good, 130-150 is very good, 150+ is great, and 170+ means you're probably the best hitter in the game that year. Anything over 180 is rare and not always a yearly occurrence. For example, from 2010-19 there were 1429 qualifying hitter seasons (143 per year). Of those:

190+: 2

180+: 6 (two by Trout)

170+: 19 (six by Trout)

160+: 43

150+: 78

140+: 153

130+: 308

120+: 498

110+: 732

100+: 983

<100: 436

<90: 225

<80: 103

<70: 33

<60: 10

<50: 3

Meaning, in any given season there are usually about two hitters of 170+ wRC+, eight or so of 150+, fifty or so of 120+, and about a hundred of 100 or better. 

Now that might not seem to make sense, given that there are 30 teams, so how could there only about three guys with average or better wRC+ per team? First of all, these are qualifiers - each team usually only has about 4-5 guys who get enough plate appearances to qualify for the batting title (502).

Also, consider that a qualifier is typically better than a non-qualifier. Meaning, players that qualify for the batting title tend to be above average. That's why most, about two-thirds, are average or better.

The last 200 or better wRC+ season--not counting Soto in 2020--was Bonds in 2004, his fourth year in a row above 200. His 244 wRC+ in 2002 is the highest in major league history. From 1871 to the present there have only been 33 qualifying seasons (again, not counting 2020) at 200 or higher. I mention this because Aaron Judge is at 203 now, with 592 PA. Meaning, he's having the best hitting season since Bonds in 2004.

Like a lot of rate and index stats, wRC+ has tended to equalize over time. Meaning, most of the really high ones are in earlier eras. From 1970 on, only Bonds (4 times), McGwire, Thomas, and Bagwell (once each) have had 200 or higher wRC+ seasons, with Judge possibly joining their ranks, and all of those within the Roid Era.

Career averages tend to range a bit lower. Babe Ruth has the highest career wRC+ at 197, followed by Ted Williams at 188. Then there's a big drop-off to Lou Gehrig, Rogers Hornsby and Barry Bonds at 173, Trout at 172, and Mantle at 170. Cobb and Joe Jackson are next at 165, and then Judge at 161. Everyone else is below 160.

Among active players: Trout 172, Judge 161, Y Alvarez 159, Soto 154, Goldschmidt 145, Harper 143, Pujols 141, Bregman, Stanton, and Freeman 140, Ohtani 138, Betts 137, etc.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Angelsjunky

[rafibomb]

 

[Angel Oracle]

32 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

 

Good time to give him a first A ball test, since they’ve already clinched a post-season spot

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

I don't buy that he's trying to dial the velocity back because if the intention is to help with control, it's had the opposite effect.  He's one of those guys who's velocity helps his command as the late break is VERY late.    Agree about Fletcher not likely to see a big boost from limiting shifts.  His batted ball profile this year is hilariously balanced.  32.9% Pull, 33.5 Straight, 33.5% Opp.

And I may be in the same boat as Doc in maybe being biased, but I've actually been amazed that Thaiss had looked as good as he has behind the plate.

I've been fortunate to be able to watch several Salt lake games both this year and last year. I'm not surprised at all, it's what I've been saying for quite a while now. Thaiss looks like a regular catcher back there. You don't even notice him because he isn't making any glaring mistakes, has a decent arm and isn't overly large or small. The only difference is that he profiles to be a better offensive weapon than 90% of catchers, and he can be played at 1B and 3B as well. 

I know you know this about my view of him, but I think he's legit. His numbers in the major leagues could surpass his minor league numbers, particularly this year as he finds his comfort zone. And I think the Angels are going to lose him for next to nothing and regret it. But again, this comes down to opportunity. They won't play him over Stassi, they acquired O'Hoppe, and they've for some inexplicable reason opted not to play him everyday at 1B or 3B despite losing both starters for the season.

As for Bachman. Bullpen bound. Always was. 

[greginpsca]

3 hours ago, rafibomb said:

 

Looking like a rainout.

[Warfarin]

21 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

I mentioned as much about Thaiss in my post and that Minasian is gonna want a veteran backup.  I have no doubt that will happen unfortunately.   You just can bring O'Hoppe up to sit the bench.  I agree that AAA probably doesn't do much for him but I'd rather he play.  The only other added benefit could be just getting more seasoning in how he handles pitchers.  By all accounts he's got the skill for it now.  But, again, unless they find a way to get his bat in the lineup regularly at the major league level, he's not riding pine on my team for half the year regardless of who else is getting paid what.  

And I know it's not reality probably, but the same applies to Fletcher.  Although a bit different, but ideally, you'd have that guy who's a capable defensive SS but that can play multiple positions including the OF.   Guys get hurt.  Guys need an off day.  etc.  And said guy needs to have a very capable bat.  In particular if you decide to go with Walsh at 1b next year, Adell in the OF etc.  You can't leave those spots as potential black holes again, if they don't come around  

BTW, is is just me or did Fletch's struggles coincide with Maddon being around and now that Joe is gone he's back to what he was a few years ago.  Probably coincidence and/or injury related more than anything.  Just thought I would bring it up.  

Notably too, but Thaiss will be out of options after this season, so he will indeed be on the bench next year.  I too would not be surprised to see Minasian opt to sign a defense first veteran catcher.  The fact that Thaiss can play 1B and an occasional 3B will make him a pretty nifty C/1B/3B, such that we can effectively have 3 catchers on the team.  That's not too common to see.

O'Hoppe won't be up to start the year, IMO.  Most solid organizations seem to slowly progress their catching prospects.  Given that O'Hoppe has not yet played a game in AAA, I would expect to see him play the majority of 2023 there, and perhaps earn a late season promotion to the MLB team by year's end.

I think Fletcher's improvement probably was mainly related due to the surgery to fix his hips.  I have to imagine that injury likely significantly impacted his ability to play well.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

I think Fletcher's improvement probably was mainly related due to the surgery to fix his hips.  I have to imagine that injury likely significantly impacted his ability to play well.

no doubt.  Any potential jab at Maddon though...

[Angel Oracle]

Neto up to .898 OPS with the Trash Pandas over 106 PAs, seems really comfortable at the plate and in the field?

O’Hoppe after 102 PAs with them:

.299/.481/.675/1.156, 9 HRs, 28 rbis, 25/19 BBs/Ks

Johnny Bench type numbers

[BTH]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Neto up to .898 OPS with the Trash Pandas over 106 PAs, seems really comfortable at the plate and in the field?

Errors aren’t a great stat, but they’re the only defensive stats we have in the minors— and Neto has 9 errors in 22 games at SS in AA.

So I wouldn’t say he’s really comfortable in the field.

[Angel Oracle]

43 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Errors aren’t a great stat, but they’re the only defensive stats we have in the minors— and Neto has 9 errors in 22 games at SS in AA.

So I wouldn’t say he’s really comfortable in the field.

Probably needs another MLB season anyway, or at least half of one?

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Trendon said:

Errors aren’t a great stat, but they’re the only defensive stats we have in the minors— and Neto has 9 errors in 22 games at SS in AA.

So I wouldn’t say he’s really comfortable in the field.

Defensive numbers in the minors in general are a crap shoot.  There are a lot of iffy fields and sometimes lighting conditions, I remember people thought Aybar was a defensive butcher because he had at least 32 errors at every stop between Low A and AA but it was mostly a case of him getting to balls other guys couldn't touch and some really hilarious bad hops.  That said, he absolutely needs more time.  You can see him rushing defensively and his walk rate is atrocious (under 5%), and he's sporting a Babip near .400.   

For now everyone should just be pleased he's showing he can handle AA pitching and is closer to being MLB ready than even the biggest optimist had reasons to believe.  It's going to be interesting to see how they handle Neto and some of the other position player draftees once the season ends given their league assignments and the playing time they have seen -- the instructs may be hopping.