2021-22 CBA Negotiation/Lockout Thread (DEAL IS AGREED TO)

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

So fans that say they can easily live with missing Spring Training games this year because they think it will end up being part of the natural resolution process to establish a new CBA are not “real” baseball fans?

Not really what I was trying to say.  However you really didn't address the points I made.

OK I was just addressing the (seemingly quite deliberate) insertion of “real” instead of saying like “many”. . . 
 

anyway you said:

Lastly, it is just simply bad for baseball in general.  A slap in the face.  With all of the bullshit happening out there in the real world, fans need the escape of sports and the consistency it brings.
 

I fully agree that fans don’t need any of this and they do need an escape.  I guess I am just in the camp that thinks the complications in these talks (maybe even resulting in some lost games) is necessary in the real world to get through this as fast as possible to get back to normal where fans can “escape” into their hobby outside of their normal life.

[Angels 1961]

3 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

OK I was just addressing the (seemingly quite deliberate) insertion of “real” instead of saying like “many”. . . 
 

anyway you said:

Lastly, it is just simply bad for baseball in general.  A slap in the face.  With all of the bullshit happening out there in the real world, fans need the escape of sports and the consistency it brings.
 

I fully agree that fans don’t need any of this and they do need an escape.  I guess I am just in the camp that thinks the complications in these talks (maybe even resulting in some lost games) is necessary in the real world to get through this as fast as possible to get back to normal where fans can “escape” into their hobby outside of their normal life.

Spring games are important that is when Jose Quintana gave halo fans so much hope. Spring game was first time we got to see Chris Rod pitch and I knew he was going to make team. 

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Angels 1961 said:

Spring games are important that is when Jose Quintana gave halo fans so much hope. Spring game was first time we got to see Chris Rod pitch and I knew he was going to make team. 

Yes. And I think you will probably live through this.

[Taylor]

57 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

So fans that say they can easily live with missing Spring Training games this year because they think it will end up being part of the natural resolution process to establish a new CBA are not “real” baseball fans?

Not really what I was trying to say.  However you really didn't address the points I made.

He usually doesn't.

[mmc]

 

[mmc]

 

[mmc]

 

 

[mmc]

 

[Taylor]

[Angels 1961]

4 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Yes. And I think you will probably live through this.

If I don't you will never hear from me again

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

If I don't you will never hear from me again

Duh?

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, mmc said:

 

No.  I doubt their specific comments on that call will “trigger” anything.  

[eligrba]

Looking forward to when Scherzer chooses not to attend the most important and crucial meetings because he is not feeling up to the task. 

[Dtwncbad]

I wanted Scherzer here 100%.  I would have been thrilled to have him here and still would because he is a gritty badass that can dominate.

But that has nothing to do with the fact that I see guys like this as somewhat fraudulent in their public display of “look at how I am fighting for the other players” crap.

It is cheap and easy for Scherzer to talk a big game about wanting other players to make more money.  Did he take less money in a contract to make sure there is more money available to other less experienced players?   No.

He (and pretty much every other player) negotiated for pretty much every last dime they can personally get despite the fact that with a luxury tax, functionally that means every dollar they get means a dollar less available to other players on that roster.

So they want their cake and eat it too.  They have no issue being personally greedy at the expense of other players but then want to grandstand to fight for these same players acting like they really give a shit about their compensation.

What cracks me up is the idea that somebody like Scherzer really genuinely wants to fight for more money to be available for player compensation as if, if the luxury tax went up say $15m, that they wouldn’t be personally fighting tooth and nail to have that money go to them instead of the other players.

Let’s be honest.  If the Mets suddenly DID have an extra $10m to pay players, Max Scherzer would be asking for $45-50m a year without blinking since he is the big star.  No, I am not buying that Max Scherzer wouldn’t ultimately be trying to put that additional money into HIS own pocket.

The guy is a stud no question.  Would love to have him here.

That doesn’t mean I can’t see the very likely hypocrisy and grandstanding of what he is doing and saying.

Not buying it.

[Taylor]

When poor or middle class people protest wages and conditions, they're called jealous and lazy.

When rich people do it, they're called hypocrites.

[Stradling]

8 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

I wanted Scherzer here 100%.  I would have been thrilled to have him here and still would because he is a gritty badass that can dominate.

But that has nothing to do with the fact that I see guys like this as somewhat fraudulent in their public display of “look at how I am fighting for the other players” crap.

It is cheap and easy for Scherzer to talk a big game about wanting other players to make more money.  Did he take less money in a contract to make sure there is more money available to other less experienced players?   No.

He (and pretty much every other player) negotiated for pretty much every last dime they can personally get despite the fact that with a luxury tax, functionally that means every dollar they get means a dollar less available to other players on that roster.

So they want their cake and eat it too.  They have no issue being personally greedy at the expense of other players but then want to grandstand to fight for these same players acting like they really give a shit about their compensation.

What cracks me up is the idea that somebody like Scherzer really genuinely wants to fight for more money to be available for player compensation as if, if the luxury tax went up say $15m, that they wouldn’t be personally fighting tooth and nail to have that money go to them instead of the other players.

Let’s be honest.  If the Mets suddenly DID have an extra $10m to pay players, Max Scherzer would be asking for $45-50m a year without blinking since he is the big star.  No, I am not buying that Max Scherzer wouldn’t ultimately be trying to put that additional money into HIS own pocket.

The guy is a stud no question.  Would love to have him here.

That doesn’t mean I can’t see the very likely hypocrisy and grandstanding of what he is doing and saying.

Not buying it.

That’s a bunch of crap honestly as it isn’t his responsibility to take less so they can give more to the next guy. It’s his responsibility to get as much as he can to set the standard for the next guy who dominates.  

[Lou]

30 minutes ago, Stradling said:

That’s a bunch of crap honestly as it isn’t his responsibility to take less so they can give more to the next guy. It’s his responsibility to get as much as he can to set the standard for the next guy who dominates.  

Does that mean all of the players who sucked ass set the standard for those who are brought up from the minors? There a a lot of players who didn't perform up to a value of half a million dollars. 

[failos]

16 hours ago, mmc said:

 

That’s rich

[Taylor]

2 minutes ago, failos said:

That’s rich

[failos]

8 minutes ago, Taylor said:

[Make Angels Great Again]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

That’s a bunch of crap honestly as it isn’t his responsibility to take less so they can give more to the next guy. It’s his responsibility to get as much as he can to set the standard for the next guy who dominates.  

 

I don't think it's a bunch of crap at all. In my opinion, no one player should have any "responsibility" to be looking out for the pay of others. You are paid what you're determined to be worth based on market value. Period.

But considering the MLB free agent market doesn't exactly follow free market standards, players like Scherzer and his agent that negotiate for as much of the pie as possible and then turn around and claim to fight for the lesser paid players...he can't claim complete innocence. It's blatantly hypocritical.

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

I don't think it's a bunch of crap at all. In my opinion, no one player should have any "responsibility" to be looking out for the pay of others. You are paid what you're determined to be worth based on market value. Period.

But considering the MLB free agent market doesn't exactly follow free market standards, players like Scherzer and his agent that negotiate for as much of the pie as possible and then turn around and claim to fight for the lesser paid players...he can't claim complete innocence. It's blatantly hypocritical.

If this CBA negotiation happened prior to Scherzer signing, and the luxury tax went up $10m per team, Max’s asking price per year would probably go up $10m.

#fight4myfellowplayers

[T.G.]

Scherzer doesn't have to do anything... He has more money than he'll ever need... the fact that he's taken on this role for the Player's Association says something about him, IMO.

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Scherzer doesn't have to do anything... He has more money than he'll ever need... the fact that he's taken on this role for the Player's Association says something about him, IMO.

What does it say about him, IMHO?

[Dtwncbad]

7 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Scherzer doesn't have to do anything... He has more money than he'll ever need... the fact that he's taken on this role for the Player's Association says something about him, IMO.

You are right that he doesn’t have to do anything.  Maybe he is genuine in his interest and maybe he digs the attention.  Maybe both.

If we give him the benefit of the doubt on him taking on this role, that is fine.

But I would still be very suspicious that if the lux tax went up (and he was a free agent) that he would be posturing with his agent to get it I his own pocket since he is the big star, leaving the same amount of money available to everyone else.

There can be a difference between “hey I believe in this right now” and “now that there is more money on the table, I am the one that deserves it as the big marketable star.”

Those two things are different and can also both be true.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Dtwncbad