Hypothetical: If all the top free agent starting pitchers accept QO's...

[floplag]

OK so im not sure they all will, i could easily see a couple of them not, but for the sake of argument lets assume that they all do, effectively taking all the top FA arms that most here have targeted off the board, im curious what some of you would do?

Do you go for the lesser arms?  Tanaka, Odorizzi types?  Its clear we will have to dip into this market in some form, but how far is debatable. 

Do you keep trying to beat people with pure offense?  Realmuto, Springer, Ozuna, and the like?  Winning games 7-5 still counts as much as winning them 2-1 after all. 

Im not sure where I am on this, we all know that SP are typically terrible investments, as are closers like Hand or Hendricks.

WE cant create the parts we need, were bound by whats available, and i dont think were making a splash for what would be called an ace so... 

What would you do if the arms arent there? 
 

[Vlad27Trout27]

well that will suck.

 

I guess next step would be a trade for a big starter. 

[totdprods]

This is a really good question, because I believe it's actually pretty realistic. I practically guarantee Bauer doesn't take it, but I think Gausman definitely does (or works out a multi-year with SF), and Stroman is 50/50. I bet $19m is hard to pass up for him, and he could go back into market and make good money next winter. But I also think he's ready to jump from NYM. 

As far as @Vlad27Trout27...who? There aren't really any certifiable big starters openly on the trade market either. 

When it comes to next tier, guys like Tanaka, Odorizzi, Paxton, Kluber...I'm not sure they're worth the risk in money when guys like Smyly, Moore, Shoemaker, Richards, Chatwood, Ray, Archer, Quintana, Perez will arguably come at half the price in years, money, or both and maybe just as likely to post solid numbers. I think I'd just as soon pick up two of the cheaper guys on one-year deals (I know, shades of Cahill and Harvey) and spread the remaining money around the pen and offense (2B/C/4th OF) rather than pin $12m-$18m on riskier mid-tier arms.

[Junkballer]

Trade for the best starting pitcher that doesnt cost an inordinate amount of assets and go a little heavier on spending for back end relievers than previously planned.  While I dont agree that relievers are categorically terrible investments, they are higher risk and adding term to their contracts is even higher, but when you have the SP mix the Angels do, you have to be able to hold on to leads.

[Angels 1961]

Sleeper pick Anthony DeSciafani get him 1 year 4 mill

[Yes We Can]

So the hypothetical is Bauer, Stroman and Gausman all accept their qualifying offers taking them off the market for 2021. I don't think we have a shot at Bauer but I like the idea of adding Stroman or Gausman.

I think the next step is still the same - to sign or trade for 1 or 2 SP's to complement Heaney/Bundy/Ohtani/Canning and the depth of Barria/Sandoval/Naughton. It's going to be a strange FA market but I like the idea of going after Robbie Ray or JA Happ on 2 year deals. 1 year if the market is really tight. Another option is trading for a young SP with multiple years of control. Adell and Rengifo and a MiLB pitching prospect for Plesac? Don't know what it would take...

[Revad]

Smiley (https://www.fangraphs.com/players/drew-smyly/11760/stats) and Taijuan Walker (https://www.fangraphs.com/players/taijuan-walker/11836/stats).  The RP then 2nd B, then LF, then catcher.

[Vlad27Trout27]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

This is a really good question, because I believe it's actually pretty realistic. I practically guarantee Bauer doesn't take it, but I think Gausman definitely does (or works out a multi-year with SF), and Stroman is 50/50. I bet $19m is hard to pass up for him, and he could go back into market and make good money next winter. But I also think he's ready to jump from NYM. 

As far as @Vlad27Trout27...who? There aren't really any certifiable big starters openly on the trade market either. 

When it comes to next tier, guys like Tanaka, Odorizzi, Paxton, Kluber...I'm not sure they're worth the risk in money when guys like Smyly, Moore, Shoemaker, Richards, Chatwood, Ray, Archer, Quintana, Perez will arguably come at half the price in years, money, or both and maybe just as likely to post solid numbers. I think I'd just as soon pick up two of the cheaper guys on one-year deals (I know, shades of Cahill and Harvey) and spread the remaining money around the pen and offense (2B/C/4th OF) rather than pin $12m-$18m on riskier mid-tier arms.

Greinke, Verlander, Scherzer, Lynn, Gray, Syndergaard are free agents after next season. 

Nola, Clevinger, Sale, Boyd free agents after the 22 season. 

all could be involved in trades. 

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

Greinke, Verlander, Scherzer, Lynn, Gray, Syndergaard are free agents after next season. 

Nola, Clevinger, Sale, Boyd free agents after the 22 season. 

all could be involved in trades. 

Can't see there being a trade market for half of those names, given they're in the midst of TJS issues. 

Scherzer, Lynn, Gray, and maybe Nola could get offers. Boyd certainly isn't a top arm right now, he may even be a non-tender.

[Dtwncbad]

At this point, how about just go get the pitching the team needs?  How about stop letting all the elements of landing what you need get in the way?

[Blarg]

Brilliant plan. 

[Docwaukee]

6 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

At this point, how about just go get the pitching the team needs?  How about stop letting all the elements of landing what you need get in the way?

what?  

[Hufflepuff]

On 11/3/2020 at 8:58 PM, Angels 1961 said:

Sleeper pick Anthony DeSciafani get him 1 year 4 mill

I agree. He’s lost some velo, and is frequently injured, which is worrisome. There’s definite upside here though, especially taking him out of Cincy.  

[kevinb]

On 11/3/2020 at 10:40 AM, floplag said:

OK so im not sure they all will, i could easily see a couple of them not, but for the sake of argument lets assume that they all do, effectively taking all the top FA arms that most here have targeted off the board, im curious what some of you would do?

Do you go for the lesser arms?  Tanaka, Odorizzi types?  Its clear we will have to dip into this market in some form, but how far is debatable. 

Do you keep trying to beat people with pure offense?  Realmuto, Springer, Ozuna, and the like?  Winning games 7-5 still counts as much as winning them 2-1 after all. 

Im not sure where I am on this, we all know that SP are typically terrible investments, as are closers like Hand or Hendricks.

WE cant create the parts we need, were bound by whats available, and i dont think were making a splash for what would be called an ace so... 

What would you do if the arms arent there? 
 

Use assets to trade for pitchers. 

[floplag]

5 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Use assets to trade for pitchers. 

What assets do we have to get the level of guy we need though?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

3 minutes ago, floplag said:

What assets do we have to get the level of guy we need though?

Nobody that anyone is willing to part with. 

[kevinb]

3 hours ago, floplag said:

What assets do we have to get the level of guy we need though?

I think there’s people. Adell Marsh Ohtani other minor league guys. There’s basically one pitcher I want and that’s Bauer I hope we sign him and if we don’t I don’t wanna spend any money on free agent pitchers. I don’t trust the rest of them. 

[floplag]

17 hours ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Nobody that anyone is willing to part with. 

Exactly

13 hours ago, Kevinb said:

I think there’s people. Adell Marsh Ohtani other minor league guys. There’s basically one pitcher I want and that’s Bauer I hope we sign him and if we don’t I don’t wanna spend any money on free agent pitchers. I don’t trust the rest of them. 

See above but yeah, i agree.
I would add Stroman as i think hes a good fit, keeps the ball down etc...  After that, what we need just isnt there and will be a huge overpay in what i think is a weaker FA SP market.
We might be better of putting the money elsewhere and waiting on the next couple years SP crops which look much better.
Winning 8-7 is still winning  

[kevinb]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

Exactly

See above but yeah, i agree.
I would add Stroman as i think hes a good fit, keeps the ball down etc...  After that, what we need just isnt there and will be a huge overpay in what i think is a weaker FA SP market.
We might be better of putting the money elsewhere and waiting on the next couple years SP crops which look much better.
Winning 8-7 is still winning  

You don't think we have assets that people would want to trade for a top of the line starter?

[floplag]

6 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

You don't think we have assets that people would want to trade for a top of the line starter?

I think we do, but i also dont think we can afford to lose them easily or that people would want to.
Who do you trade for that, you know Adell likely is top of that list... his value isnt super high after struggling a bit in small sample... You going to trade Ohtani?   Is Marsh going to get you that?  To get what we truly need you might be talking multiples off that list including Rengifo.
I just dont see it, it isnt that we dont have them, its that we cant really afford to lose as many of them as it might take to get the true ace, and trading for anything less makes no real sense to me. 

[kevinb]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

I think we do, but i also dont think we can afford to lose them easily or that people would want to.
Who do you trade for that, you know Adell likely is top of that list... his value isnt super high after struggling a bit in small sample... You going to trade Ohtani?   Is Marsh going to get you that?  To get what we truly need you might be talking multiples off that list including Rengifo.
I just dont see it, it isnt that we dont have them, its that we cant really afford to lose as many of them as it might take to get the true ace, and trading for anything less makes no real sense to me. 

True... That's why I think it's Bauer and nothing else. I'd disagree with Stroman he isn't the ace we need and it's wasting money for that ace. Stroman is a nice piece but if I were Arte it's Bauer and if not then save that money and go another route and wait for the right opportunity whether it be trade something down the line. I wouldn't risk throwing that money away on someone not ace material at the moment. But that's just me.  

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

True... That's why I think it's Bauer and nothing else. I'd disagree with Stroman he isn't the ace we need and it's wasting money for that ace. Stroman is a nice piece but if I were Arte it's Bauer and if not then save that money and go another route and wait for the right opportunity whether it be trade something down the line. I wouldn't risk throwing that money away on someone not ace material at the moment. But that's just me.  

Stroman isnt a true "ace" per say, thats true, but he keeps the ball down and makes a lot of sense.   he would certainly perhaps be our ace.   It will depend on the money of course someone said AAV of like 17, i think he goes higher in this crop personally or he should just take the QO.   But lets say you get him for 20ish maybe... 4/80 or something, it might make sense of the rest arent out there or are simply too damned expensive.
Im on the Bauer train as much as anyone, but are we on his?  I dont think he comes here for the money, we will have to fill in other blanks to convince him.  He wants to win, period, and were not there with just him. 

[BTH]

If the Angels are left without quality starting pitching options, they need to pivot to another plan.

The optimal plan to pivot to would seem to be strengthening the bullpen so that you only need 5 innings out of your starters. If the Angels went out and signed 2 top tier relievers and added 1-2 more mid-relief relivers, they could join Mayers, Pena, and Ramirez to form a quality bullpen.

[kevinb]

18 minutes ago, floplag said:

Stroman isnt a true "ace" per say, thats true, but he keeps the ball down and makes a lot of sense.   he would certainly perhaps be our ace.   It will depend on the money of course someone said AAV of like 17, i think he goes higher in this crop personally or he should just take the QO.   But lets say you get him for 20ish maybe... 4/80 or something, it might make sense of the rest arent out there or are simply too damned expensive.
Im on the Bauer train as much as anyone, but are we on his?  I dont think he comes here for the money, we will have to fill in other blanks to convince him.  He wants to win, period, and were not there with just him. 

I disagree I think with him or Cole last year we are a serious contender. The depth of pitching is there just minus the "ace" the offense is definitely there and as we know with bullpen it's hit or miss. What we have missed is the top of the line pitching which we haven't had in what seems like decades. I think with an ace the rest can fill in nicely. 

[Lou]

The Yankees are wasting Cole's best years.