Angels have some serious decisions to make

[angelsnationtalk]

Let's take a moment and talk about after the playoffs and after this who 2020 mystery season ends...

Angels will have to make some big decisions on what to do with some core players.

Andrelton Simmons is expected to become a free agent and the money he may command could be used in much better areas to give the Angels a much better chance at competing. 

As much as I love watching Simba make ridiculous plays at SS his style of play has become very one-sided. His bat has struggled (though the injuries haven't helped), and David Fletcher has shown that he can provide solid defense with one hell of a bat. I said this last year too that Fletcher should become the shortstop and the Angels need to use the money for pitching. 

After missing out on the Cole sweepstakes last offseason, the Angels are in desperate need to keep acquiring pitching. Dylan Bundy looks to lead the staff next year as the Ace, but with Ohtanias a big question mark for 2021, the Angels need to bolster their rotation with premium arms. And no, Heaney/Canning/Teheran aren't aces. They need to make a run at Trevor Bauer and/or Marcus Stroman (like every team will). The FA list is deep so there are other names on there as well...

Secondly, Justin Upton. With Brandon Marsh waiting in the wings and Upton flirting with the .100 line, I don't think the Angels are considering moving Marsh in a trade deal for a good arm any time soon. 

I understand 2020 is a crazy year where everyone is off (kinda), but we can all agree that Upton batting and in the outfield is a hazard without even discussing his bearish stat lines. 

Maddon has done a good job recognizing that Upton and Pujols are becoming issues and not playing them as frequently as Scioscia/Ausmus did and this could potentially put the bug in Eppler's ear to do something. 

Either way, as much as I love watching Simba bless the fans of Anaheim, his potential new contract could be used for someone to really help put the Angels over the hump. The offense and defense is there (without Simba). It's just time to get the last few arms needed to dominate. 

[Jason]

I think it may be premature to call Bundy an "ace" moving forward but your points are valid. Unfortunately the Upton and Pujols contracts will still come into play when trying to build this team next season. I don't see Arte spending much more as I'm sure they are losing money on this season without the fan attendance and reduced schedule.  

[Stradling]

I think they have three tough decisions this off season.  One, do you bring back Eppler, I think they’ll bring him back on a two year extension.  What do they do with Simmons?   I think they let him walk if he won’t take a reasonable extension.  Lastly, will they work to buy out Albert?   

[totdprods]

Probably comes down to how Eppler feels about job security and what he wants to do next. The virus has thrown a whole other variable into the mix. Maybe it bought him another year in eyes of Arte. Maybe not. Maybe Eppler wants to leave after the Stripling deal fiasco. 

I can see him pushing hard for a controllable arm costing Rengifo, Adams, Marsh, Jackson, etc. and seeing the expanded playoffs as an opportunity to go all-in if he wants a new contract here - or elsewhere.

If he isn’t feeling a return here, either by his own choosing or a sense Arte wants to move on, he may just sell off a couple pieces like Robles, Simmons, La Stella, Castro, let the season play out and peace out.

Edited August 14, 2020 by totdprods

[angelsnationtalk]

11 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I think they have three tough decisions this off season.  One, do you bring back Eppler, I think they’ll bring him back on a two year extension.  What do they do with Simmons?   I think they let him walk if he won’t take a reasonable extension.  Lastly, will they work to buy out Albert?   

They need to let Simmons walk IMO. I don't think Arte would buy out Albert, though i'd like that. Question is, what would the $ look like if that happened.

[totdprods]

13 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

They need to let Simmons walk IMO. I don't think Arte would buy out Albert, though i'd like that. Question is, what would the $ look like if that happened.

Agreed. Having a real hard time seeing Simmons back. Bert has only a year left so at this point I imagine hell just be the 26th man in a PH, occasional 1B/DH option, provided we can find someone to actually play 1B. 

[nate]

Absolutely love Simba, but I think the Angels might move on from him.

The thing about FA pitching is it seems to usually not work out so I would hope they continue to focus on developing home grown pitching.

Also, I would absolutely extend Eppler for at least two years.  He had an insurmountable task ahead of him with the trash Dipoto and Arte left him throughout the org and the Angels not tanking.  Rebuilds like this take a lot of time.

[DCAngelsFan]

1 hour ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Let's take a moment and talk about after the playoffs and after this who 2020 mystery season ends...

Angels will have to make some big decisions on what to do with some core players.

Andrelton Simmons is expected to become a free agent and the money he may command could be used in much better areas to give the Angels a much better chance at competing. 
As much as I love watching Simba make ridiculous plays at SS his style of play has become very one-sided. His bat has struggled (though the injuries haven't helped), and David Fletcher has
shown that he can provide solid defense with one hell of a bat. I said this last year too that Fletcher should become the shortstop and the Angels need to use the money for pitching. 

After missing out on the Cole sweepstakes last offseason, the Angels are in desperate need to keep acquiring pitching. Dylan Bundy looks to lead the staff next year as the Ace, but with Ohtani
as a big question mark for 2021, the Angels need to bolster their rotation with premium arms. And no, Heaney/Canning/Teheran aren't aces. They need to make a run at Trevor Bauer and/or Marcus Stroman (like every team will). The FA list is deep so there are other names on there as well...

Secondly, Justin Upton. With Brandon Marsh waiting in the wings and Upton flirting with the .100 line, I don't think the Angels are considering moving Marsh in a trade deal for a good arm any time soon. 
I understand 2020 is a crazy year where everyone is off (kinda), but we can all agree that Upton batting and in the outfield is a hazard without even discussing his bearish stat lines. 

Maddon has done a good job recognizing that Upton and Pujols are becoming issues and not playing them as frequently as Scioscia/Ausmus did and this could potentially put the bug in Eppler's ear to do something. 

Either way, as much as I love watching Simba bless the fans of Anaheim, his potential new contract could be used for someone to really help put the Angels over the hump. The offense and defense is there (without Simba). It's just time to get the last few arms needed to dominate. 

I tend to agree on Marsh - I think Upton is fading even faster than I'd hoped and we all know where Pujols is. Marsh is taking reps at 1B, but he's a plus outfielder, and that's where he needs to play.  

I think we need to keep him *and* Adams in the pipeline for next year and beyond, and not re-signing Simba lets us compete for 1 or even 2 SP's.  

But tbh, I'm kinda skeptical about the upcoming pitching FA class - Kluber will likely be a FA but his injury history, -shoulder injuries scare me in a pitcher.  Bauer and Stroman - Bauer might want to come home (at premium dollars), Stroman I'm a little leery - his age and size make me think a breakdown is coming.  Ray can't find the strike zone and is getting lit up.  

Realmuto is simply a luxury we can't afford.  

I want to keep Simba - and we might strike out on any high-ceiling FA pitchers - but I think we probably have to, reluctantly, let him go.   Unless we decide to trade Fletcher/prospects for pitching.  

 

[Angelsjunky]

Make Simmons a qualifying offer - if he accepts, they get another year of his elite defense and hope he can rebuild his bat. If not, they get a compensatory pick. But I suspect that he would accept to give him a chance for a bigger payday after 2021.

I love Marsh but they won’t give up entirely on Upton yet. Plus, it is doubtful that Adell will be ready and probably should spend a couple months in AAA. I think the Angels will take a look at Marsh in the big leagues in a couple weeks. If he’s more ready than Adell, he could platoon with Upton and Goodwin next year.

They need another starter, but I also think that Suarez, Barria, and Rodriguez could play a role next year. 
 

I’d like to see them extend Castro for another year.

[Claude]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Lastly, will they work to buy out Albert?   

You know that he’s not going anywhere. He seems to think that he’s contributing and that baseball needs him.

 

[Stradling]

Incredible contribution to yet another conversation. 

[Tank]

my biggest concern right now is trying to find anybody else here who knew that simba was also called Dre.

[totdprods]

Quick take on what something that feels realistic and not quite a full buy or full sell position could look like:

This deadline:

• Snag another SP, either a very cheap rental for some stability (Samardzija?) or offer up from the Rengifo, Adams, Thaiss, Barria, Suarez, Deveaux, Knowles pool for a SP with control. Won’t get an ace, but maybe you can get someone like Bundy - a Junis, Caleb Smith, Stripling, Norris, Matz, etc. type.
• Entertain offers for Goodwin, Castro, La Stella, Robles, Simmons, maybe a reliever, see if you can land a young catcher or SP prospect and don’t be afraid to pull the trigger if you can get another Patrick Sandoval or Ty Buttrey
• Maybe they compete with what they have. Upton gradually moves to a 4th/platoon role. Adell, Fletcher, and Marsh take playing time. 

This offseason:

• Let Simmons walk, with Fletcher taking SS.
• Really, don’t even bother shopping in FA for much. Look at the IF market in case La Stella is gone - there’s a few decent vet 2B 1-yr types hitting FA, same for 1B. Look for a SP available on a decent 1-yr deal - Ray, Quintana, DeSclafani, etc. if guys like Sandoval and Canning don’t lock down spots. 
• Let the kids ascend where able.

Next offseason:

• Big shortstop class - Lindor, Correa, Story, Seager, Baez - we could shop here and move Fletcher back to 2B or super-utility. Pujols money comes off.
• Hope the farm has developed and some youth has become entrenched in the bigs, allowing the Angels to trade some better developed prospects for an upper-tier arm with some control. 
• Upton replaces Pujols as the 26th man occasional PH/DH/LF. 

[floplag]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

I think they have three tough decisions this off season.  One, do you bring back Eppler, I think they’ll bring him back on a two year extension.  What do they do with Simmons?   I think they let him walk if he won’t take a reasonable extension.  Lastly, will they work to buy out Albert?   

Pretty much this, my only question is who do you buy out between Pujols and Upton?

They already made it pretty clear Upton is the odd man out so maybe eat some money to work a trade?   Going to be an obvious hard sell still on the hook for over 50M.  Hell at this point we owe him more than Pujols and at least for now in small sample Pujols is out producing him. 

Simmons has to produce the rest of the season or he isnt going to demand much on the open market either way so a reasonable extension would seem, well, reasonable    But thats the problem really if he doesnt then does it even make sense for us to do.  Its fish or cut bait time for Simba im sorry to say.
 

[Stradling]

Upton will go into next season as the starting left fielder. 

[Angel Oracle]

To me, the main questions following 2020 are:

Eppler?    I'm leaning now towards the two year deal for him that others proposed here.   Most important thing is, no more big money FA's for at least the next 4-5 years. 

What to do regarding Simba?    Fletcher's development does make Simba more expendable to leave as a FA.   I might try to re-sign LaStella to a two year deal, and have him and Rengifo split the 2B duties, with LaStella also playing part-time at 1B and hoping Albert has a decent enough 80 games played season to send him off to retirement.  

Starting pitching?    First off, find another pitcher via trade with at least two years control, who they see another Bundy in.   FA pitchers are so hit and miss, it's better to acquire them via trade on an upswing and develop them as one of your own.    Hope that Detmers is ready by July.    By July, assuming Ohtani can't do the two way thing anymore, they ,have Bundy, Heaney, a trade acquisition, Canning (hoping he further develops), Detmers, and Sandoval for five spots.

Relief pitching?  They need to find another Robles somehow to go with Robles and Pena, hope Middleton and Buttrey can be solid enough middle innings/sometimes 7th/8th inning guys, and fill out the rest of the spots from the farm or small FA signings a lot better than it's been so far this season.

Albert?   See first paragraph.

Upton?  Give him the first 2 months of 2021 while playing 2/3 of the time, and if he's still struggling it's time to give him the Wells treatment and absorb however much of the remaining $40 million due by June.   Marsh should be ready by June.     Adell also plays 2/3 to 3/4 of the time, and Goodwin plays the remaining 1/2 to 2/3 of the time for the two corner OF spots through May. 

[Blarg]

38 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Quick take on what something that feels realistic and not quite a full buy or full sell position could look like:

This deadline:

• Snag another SP, either a very cheap rental for some stability (Samardzija?) or offer up from the Rengifo, Adams, Thaiss, Barria, Suarez, Deveaux, Knowles pool for a SP with control. Won’t get an ace, but maybe you can get someone like Bundy - a Junis, Caleb Smith, Stripling, Norris, Matz, etc. type.
• Entertain offers for Goodwin, Castro, La Stella, Robles, Simmons, maybe a reliever, see if you can land a young catcher or SP prospect and don’t be afraid to pull the trigger if you can get another Patrick Sandoval or Ty Buttrey
• Maybe they compete with what they have. Upton gradually moves to a 4th/platoon role. Adell, Fletcher, and Marsh take playing time. 

This offseason:

• Let Simmons walk, with Fletcher taking SS.
• Really, don’t even bother shopping in FA for much. Look at the IF market in case La Stella is gone - there’s a few decent vet 2B 1-yr types hitting FA, same for 1B. Look for a SP available on a decent 1-yr deal - Ray, Quintana, DeSclafani, etc. if guys like Sandoval and Canning don’t lock down spots. 
• Let the kids ascend where able.

Next offseason:

• Big shortstop class - Lindor, Correa, Story, Seager, Baez - we could shop here and move Fletcher back to 2B or super-utility. Pujols money comes off.
• Hope the farm has developed and some youth has become entrenched in the bigs, allowing the Angels to trade some better developed prospects for an upper-tier arm with some control. 
• Upton replaces Pujols as the 26th man occasional PH/DH/LF. 

I can't argue with a man that uses bullet points. 

[Blarg]

Goodwin is under club control for another two seasons. That gives the Angels breathing room to groom both Adell and Marsh for the outfield while phasing Upton out. 

LaStella is a utility player and they already have Rengifo in the system to cover the infield in that role. The only way you tender LaStella is if you let Simmons walk. Then there is a need for a player to cover the middle between days Fletcher and Rengifo are resting or on the IL. I don't see any other depth in the organization for the middle infield at this time.

 

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Goodwin is under club control for another two seasons. That gives the Angels breathing room to groom both Adell and Marsh for the outfield while phasing Upton out. 

LaStella is a utility player and they already have Rengifo in the system to cover the infield in that role. The only way you tender LaStella is if you let Simmons walk. Then there is a need for a player to cover the middle between days Fletcher and Rengifo are resting or on the IL. I don't see any other depth in the organization for the middle infield at this time.

 

Right, you only bring back one or the other.  As for Goodwin, in a year like this, he would be our best trade chip because of those two years of control and his performance.  

[Tank]

20 minutes ago, Blarg said:

The only way you tender LaStella is if you let Simmons walk.

Who? oh, wait, you mean Dre. Carry on.

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Upton will go into next season as the starting left fielder. 

If he continues to trend downward, I highly doubt this. 

Maddon's in-game bullpen management leaves much to be desired, but he's never had a problem benching a struggling vet in favor of a prospect or someone on the roster who is outperforming him.

Upton may be on the roster, but I can't see him getting much PT if all three of Goodwin/Adell/Marsh are outperforming him in practice, spring training and in h2h matchups. 

[Pancake Bear]

Extend Eppler.

Keep Simmons unless he wants stupid money.

I don’t see Albert getting bought out. Keep him on as part time 1B/DH/PH for his farewell tour. 

Hope Upton improves. Considering Arte wouldn’t even buy out Cozart, I don’t see us getting rid of him.

Also, I find it amusing that we’re talking about Bundy as an ace already, but we’ve concluded Heaney and Canning won’t be, but Bauer and Stroman are. Priceless. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

If he continues to trend downward, I highly doubt this. 

Maddon's in-game bullpen management leaves much to be desired, but he's never had a problem benching a struggling vet in favor of a prospect or someone on the roster who is outperforming him.

Upton may be on the roster, but I can't see him getting much PT if all three of Goodwin/Adell/Marsh are outperforming him in practice, spring training and in h2h matchups. 

I guess we will see.  If Adell continues to struggle I could see him start the year in the minors next year with Upton in LF and Goodwin in RF. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Pancake Bear said:

Extend Eppler.

Keep Simmons unless he wants stupid money.

I don’t see Albert getting bought out. Keep him on as part time 1B/DH/PH for his farewell tour. 

Hope Upton improves. Considering Arte wouldn’t even buy out Cozart, I don’t see us getting rid of him.

Also, I find it amusing that we’re talking about Bundy as an ace already, but we’ve concluded Heaney and Canning won’t be, but Bauer and Stroman are. Priceless. 

Yep.  

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

3 hours ago, DCAngelsFan said:

Realmuto is simply a luxury we can't afford. 

Castro and Stassi seem to be the best hitting catchers we've had since Napoli