Opt out questions

[Justin]

Just now, Fourts said:

I wouldn't bet on them working together to set a freaking the clock or putting together a 10 piece puzzle at this point in time. 

That seems accurate, but if Manfred and Clark issued a statement tomorrow reading "What would you think about us not playing in 2020 and instead immediately getting to work to solve labor issues?," I bet a lot of people would say "Cool, go for it." 

But treating it like it's a fait accompli is absurd. 

[PattyD22]

4 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I think that's a good point to make. We can talk about the players risk that comes with playing, but you can't really evaluate that risk without considering the risk they will expose themselves to if they don't play. Going to the grocery store is probably going to be much more dangerous to them than going to practice.

Exactly

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, SoPas Angel said:

That seems accurate, but if Manfred and Clark issued a statement tomorrow reading "What would you think about us not playing in 2020 and instead immediately getting to work to solve labor issues?," I bet a lot of people would say "Cool, go for it." 

But treating it like it's a fait accompli is absurd. 

They have a CBA through the 2021 season, a CBA that ownership went out of its way to pat itself on its back for having "won".   Neither side is going to even consider talking about it until it's over.   They'll talk rules changes and things of that sort but the labor/money talk will go down to the wire again.  

[Angels in 2030]

20 minutes ago, PattyD22 said:

  

So when I hear players say they are worried about this, the answer is they should be.  Aren't we all?  But the reality is players are not at any more risk than any one of us.  As a matter of fact, they are probably SAFER than the general public because they eventually will have protections in place to protect them.  Most of us don't.  

I will respect any player that decides to opt out, as I stated before, Mike Trout included.  But I simply cannot wait for baseball to start.  I firmly believe once the season starts, things will fall into place.  If it goes south after 20 games, I'll have to accept that.  But at least that's 20 games we got to watch.

 

I agree with your post.  However, i see people compare athletes to regular people saying that the average joe is working (hospital, target, market, construction, etc.) so why are players saying they don't feel safe and maybe not playing.  The HUGE difference is the average Jo/Jane has to go to work to pay the monthly bills and put food on the table.  These athletes are freaking rich -- they are not like everyone else.  They can afford to sit at home and not work for a year or two.  If i were a millionaire (multi-millionaire really), i'd probably stay at home and not care a dang about my job/company.  But i don't have a choice and neither do most Americans....professional athletes do.  Total apple/oranges comparison.  I'm not saying you specifically are saying this at all -- i just see this comment all over the place by people and it makes me SMH.

[PattyD22]

3 minutes ago, Fourts said:

I agree with your post.  However, i see people compare athletes to regular people saying that the average joe is working (hospital, target, market, construction, etc.) so why are players saying they don't feel safe and maybe not playing.  The HUGE difference is the average Jo/Jane has to go to work to pay the monthly bills and put food on the table.  These athletes are freaking rich -- they are not like everyone else.  They can afford to sit at home and not work for a year or two.  If i were a millionaire (multi-millionaire really), i'd probably stay at home and not care a dang about my job/company.  But i don't have a choice and neither do most Americans....professional athletes do.  Total apple/oranges comparison.  I'm not saying you specifically are saying this at all -- i just see this comment all over the place by people and it makes me SMH.

But athletes ARE regular people.  They do the same shit we all do.  They shop at grocery stores like we all do.  They put gas in their cars like we do.  They go to restaurants like we all do.  They have regular lives.  Can they afford to not work?  The answer is most of them can, not all of them.  

So to say a professional athlete can sit at home and not do anything is tad bit of hyperbole.  People have lives, and when people step out of their houses, they are at risk.  Not just on playing fields.  But the reality is if athletes, like all of us "regular Joe's" do what most of us are doing every day, they will have a fairly good chance of not contracting the virus.

[Claude]

20 minutes ago, PattyD22 said:

But athletes ARE regular people.  They do the same shit we all do.  They shop at grocery stores like we all do.  They put gas in their cars like we do.  They go to restaurants like we all do.  They have regular lives.  Can they afford to not work?  The answer is most of them can, not all of them.  

So to say a professional athlete can sit at home and not do anything is tad bit of hyperbole.  People have lives, and when people step out of their houses, they are at risk.  Not just on playing fields.  But the reality is if athletes, like all of us "regular Joe's" do what most of us are doing every day, they will have a fairly good chance of not contracting the virus.

But athletes are regular Joes and certainly should be considered non-essential. You Sir, a Fireman is much more important to me than baseball.

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, SoPas Angel said:

I'm trying to imagine the baseball fan who would prefer they not play. 

It takes all kinds, I suppose. 

They come from Canada. 

[PattyD22]

6 minutes ago, RendZone said:

But athletes are regular Joes and certainly should be considered non-essential. You Sir, a Fireman is much more important to me than baseball.

My wife might not agree with you Claude.  She loves her Angels baseball.

[Angels in 2030]

41 minutes ago, PattyD22 said:

But athletes ARE regular people.  They do the same shit we all do.  They shop at grocery stores like we all do.  They put gas in their cars like we do.  They go to restaurants like we all do.  They have regular lives.  Can they afford to not work?  The answer is most of them can, not all of them.  

So to say a professional athlete can sit at home and not do anything is tad bit of hyperbole.  People have lives, and when people step out of their houses, they are at risk.  Not just on playing fields.  But the reality is if athletes, like all of us "regular Joe's" do what most of us are doing every day, they will have a fairly good chance of not contracting the virus.

I'm sorry, but that's just not true.  Super rich athletes are NOT going to target and vons.  They have people to do that.  They have personal chefs, etc.  But regardless, even if they did do that -- it's required to surive (food, etc.).  Working and that paycheck is not required in 2020 for guys like David Price, Felix, Zimmerman, Desmond, Leake, etc.  Plus, that paycheck in 2020 is way smaller so the idea of working (when it's not financially needed) is much less desirable.  For some of these rich guys, it comes down to personal desire to win and compete.   Some though have valid family issues.  I have staff that must work from home due to family health issues.  Some others at my company have staff that also have such issues, but they can't do their job remotely from home -- so they either must come in or are on unpaid leave after using up all vacation/sick time.  Finances determine which of those two options they pick.

[Lou]

22 minutes ago, Fourts said:

I'm sorry, but that's just not true.  Super rich athletes are NOT going to target and vons.  They have people to do that

.

.

 

[Stradling]

Which once again has nothing to do with what you are responding to. 

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, Fourts said:

I'm sorry, but that's just not true.  Super rich athletes are NOT going to target and vons.  They have people to do that.  They have personal chefs, etc.  But regardless, even if they did do that -- it's required to surive (food, etc.).  Working and that paycheck is not required in 2020 for guys like David Price, Felix, Zimmerman, Desmond, Leake, etc.  Plus, that paycheck in 2020 is way smaller so the idea of working (when it's not financially needed) is much less desirable.  For some of these rich guys, it comes down to personal desire to win and compete.   Some though have valid family issues.  I have staff that must work from home due to family health issues.  Some others at my company have staff that also have such issues, but they can't do their job remotely from home -- so they either must come in or are on unpaid leave after using up all vacation/sick time.  Finances determine which of those two options they pick.

i have customers that are ultra wealthy. i'm talking hundred millionaires and billionaires. the people that have the most money drive volvos, etc. 

people with money who flaunt it are compensating. 

this is 100% true all the time.

the idea that money removes you from day to day life is a falsity. they do everything we do. do they have maids, etc? sure they do, but they still clean, etc.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, Fourts said:

I'm sorry, but that's just not true.  Super rich athletes are NOT going to target and vons.  They have people to do that.  They have personal chefs, etc.  But regardless, even if they did do that -- it's required to surive (food, etc.).  Working and that paycheck is not required in 2020 for guys like David Price, Felix, Zimmerman, Desmond, Leake, etc.  Plus, that paycheck in 2020 is way smaller so the idea of working (when it's not financially needed) is much less desirable.  For some of these rich guys, it comes down to personal desire to win and compete.   Some though have valid family issues.  I have staff that must work from home due to family health issues.  Some others at my company have staff that also have such issues, but they can't do their job remotely from home -- so they either must come in or are on unpaid leave after using up all vacation/sick time.  Finances determine which of those two options they pick.

Great, now do this for every player on the teams' 60 man roster.

[Claude]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/07/kole-calhoun-tests-positive-for-covid-19.html/email

[Stradling]

Hell you don’t even have to do it for the last 35 guys.  Do it for the guys that make league minimum that aren’t named Ohtani and Canning (big draft bonus).  Guys like Middleton probably don’t have the luxury of missing out on a years pay and just sit at home.  Or a guy like Fletcher, we have no idea if he bought a house and is mortgage poor.  I am not saying I feel bad for them, it is more along the lines of living in reality.  If you made $500k, and bought a house last year, it isn’t like you pocketed and saved a ton of money.  At least probably not enough to pay a mortgage and live comfortably without working the following year.  This is especially true if you kinda figured you’d be making at least another $500k this year, like a guy like Fletcher could assume.  

[Angels in 2030]

Should have realized it’s AngelsWin and many people can’t read - they just want to jump to their on agenda.  I never said ALL players.  I said super rich ones.  Again, reading comprehension is difficult I know. Anyway, being rich simply allows them the opportunity to opt out.  Doesn’t mean they will - but it’s an option.  And several have taken it.  Most people have no such option and are forced to do as required to get that paycheck.  Trout has that option and he’s set for 10 lifetimes - most guys don’t and need to work even though wife is pregnant.  No problems with that - just the facts.  
 

btw, I have several super rich friends.  They  are not flaunting their riches.  But they have no need right now to work 40+ hours a week like most of us.  

[Angels in 2030]

Price, Zimmerman, leave, etc. are not opting out because they are seriously

worried about their life or their families life.  They have the best health care available to them and many things most people don’t.  They are opting out because they don’t need the money and it’s just not worth it them all things being considered.  Mainly it’s money - they don’t need it.  It’s that simple. 

[Stradling]

16 minutes ago, Fourts said:

Price, Zimmerman, leave, etc. are not opting out because they are seriously

worried about their life or their families life.  They have the best health care available to them and many things most people don’t.  They are opting out because they don’t need the money and it’s just not worth it them all things being considered.  Mainly it’s money - they don’t need it.  It’s that simple. 

No it’s not that simple.  They weighed risk/reward and chose not to take the risk. 

[Claude]

36 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Hell you don’t even have to do it for the last 35 guys.  Do it for the guys that make league minimum that aren’t named Ohtani and Canning (big draft bonus).  Guys like Middleton probably don’t have the luxury of missing out on a years pay and just sit at home.  Or a guy like Fletcher, we have no idea if he bought a house and is mortgage poor.  I am not saying I feel bad for them, it is more along the lines of living in reality.  If you made $500k, and bought a house last year, it isn’t like you pocketed and saved a ton of money.  At least probably not enough to pay a mortgage and live comfortably without working the following year.  This is especially true if you kinda figured you’d be making at least another $500k this year, like a guy like Fletcher could assume.  

Do it for the guys that make league minimum that aren’tnamed Ohtani and Canning (big draft bonus). 
 

All of those bottom dweller prorated salaries add up to around $3M. 
Arte has written numerous bigger get out of town checks to players they sent packing. Arte can easily pay them all and feel no pain. 

[Stradling]

And

[Angels in 2030]

42 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No it’s not that simple.  They weighed risk/reward and chose not to take the risk. 

Lol you basically agreed with me.  Except acknowledging money, and not needing it, is a major/main factor.  I’m not sure what your response meant.  They don’t need the money - so they consider all other items and determine it’s not worth it to them.  Good for them imo.  Many people don’t have that luxury.  

[Claude]

29 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And

And.......you have to stop thinking that these human baseball players are all worried about each other’s mortgages. 

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, RendZone said:

And.......you have to stop thinking that these human baseball players are all worried about each other’s mortgages. 

Ok I’ll stop doing that when you stop assuming the worst in all things related to baseball.  By the way, the function of a union... never mind. 

[Stradling]

24 minutes ago, Fourts said:

Lol you basically agreed with me.  Except acknowledging money, and not needing it, is a major/main factor.  I’m not sure what your response meant.  They don’t need the money - so they consider all other items and determine it’s not worth it to them.  Good for them imo.  Many people don’t have that luxury.  

Except one of those risks is health which you said they aren’t seriously worried about.  They obviously are.   

[Angels in 2030]

23 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Except one of those risks is health which you said they aren’t seriously worried about.  They obviously are.   

Again, lack of reading comprehension. I said “they are not worried about their life” - not health.  Two very different things.  Everyone worries about health.  Heck I worry about what stress at work does for my health.  That doesn’t mean I opt out of my job/work - I have to pay the bills.  But if it were life, then that’s a whole different story.