Trumped

[UndertheHalo]

The Kurds didn’t agree to the ceasefire.  There was never any ceasefire. 

[Kevin]

10 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Oh that’s convenient.  ISIS was created by Obama ? Lol.  
 

the entire shit show in Iraq is 100% the responsibility of Bush and Cheney. 

You're both right.

Obama did the right thing by getting out of Iraq after a disastrous eight years because of Bush. However, he then fvcked by going back and then helped with the destruction of Libya and got tangled in with Syria. 

There just aren't a whole lot of clean hands on either side.

 

 

[Tank]

so a) stay in syria and keep being part of an endless war or b) withdraw and let the cards fall where they may. do i have it right?

seems like there wasn't any terribly good choice to be made here.

[Kevin]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

so a) stay in syria and keep being part of an endless war or b) withdraw and let the cards fall where they may. do i have it right?

seems like there wasn't any terribly good choice to be made here.

Also, get out of Saudi Arabia too.

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, Kevin said:

You're both right

Obama did the right thing by getting out of Iraq after a disastrous eight years because of Bush. However, he then fvcked by going back and then helped with the destruction of Libya and got tangled in with Syria. 

There just aren't a whole lot of clean hands on either side.

 

 

Isis was born in Iraq and northern Syria.  But mostly it was an unholy marriage between the most radical wahabi strain of fundamentalist psychopaths and extremely pissed former baathists.  The chaos in Iraq and Syria allowed it to incubate.  You won’t see me defending a lot of Obama’s foreign policy but it’s ridiculous and stupid muddying the water to assign isis to him. 
 

libya, obviously a disaster in its own right.  

Edited October 18, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Taylor]

16 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Isis was born in Iraq and northern Syria.  But mostly it was an unholy marriage between the most radical wahabi strain of fundamentalist psychopaths and extremely pissed former baathists.  The chaos in Iraq and Syria allowed it to incubate. 

So it was or wasn't Obama's fault?

[tdawg87]

17 minutes ago, Tank said:

so a) stay in syria and keep being part of an endless war or b) withdraw and let the cards fall where they may. do i have it right?

seems like there wasn't any terribly good choice to be made here.

How about not just immediately withdrawing troops out of nowhere. Seems like that would have been a good choice.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Taylor said:

So it was or wasn't Obama's fault?

Yes.

[Tank]

6 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

How about not just immediately withdrawing troops out of nowhere. Seems like that would have been a good choice.

then that begs the question of how/when to withdraw. How would you do it?

[Lhalo]

7 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

How about not just immediately withdrawing troops out of nowhere. Seems like that would have been a good choice.

How about not policing the world? Bring them all home now. People in the Middle East will continue to kill each other with or without us.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

then that begs the question of how/when to withdraw. How would you do it?

Well, with tact, for starters. Otherwise you end up with this fuckin trainwreck.

[Tank]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

Well, with tact, for starters. Otherwise you end up with this fuckin trainwreck.

what would "with tact" look like?

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Lhalo said:

How about not policing the world? Bring them all home now. People in the Middle East will continue to kill each other with or without us.

I mean, that's fine. But that doesn't solve the problem. The Kurds have been our allies for decades, and we just abandoned them.

[JarsOfClay]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

then that begs the question of how/when to withdraw. How would you do it?

How about actually having a plan to withdraw rather than just on a whim? Having a plan means ISIS is contained first without posing any threat, Kurds are safe and wont be put through the genocide Turkey has been planning to do for months.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

what would "with tact" look like?

A slow withdrawal over time, with an agreement in place that benefits us and not just Turkey and Russia.

[Lhalo]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

I mean, that's fine. But that doesn't solve the problem. The Kurds have been our allies for decades, and we just abandoned them.

The real world sucks man.

[tdawg87]

Just now, Lhalo said:

The real world sucks man.

I agree.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Whether it's ISIS or some other group our involvement over there is always going to make us enemies.  One of our allies right now or someone we put in power in the near future will be our enemy in a decade or two.  It's a no win situation in a region that's been at war for centuries.  Stand by our commitments but let's not get involved in any we don't need to.

[UndertheHalo]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I mean, that's fine. But that doesn't solve the problem. The Kurds have been our allies for decades, and we just abandoned them.

There was this one time we convinced them rise up in revolt against Saddam Hussein.....anyway. You should read up on how that went. 

[UndertheHalo]

4 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

Whether it's ISIS or some other group our involvement over there is always going to make us enemies.  One of our allies right now or someone we put in power in the near future will be our enemy in a decade or two.  It's a no win situation in a region that's been at war for centuries. 

You guys all need to understand that sowing chaos in the Middle East is a principal objective of US foreign policy in the Middle East.  
The garbage about eternal war and hopeless savages.  All of that baby brained American exceptionalism bullshit is extremely incorrect. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

Also, how about we don’t share pictures of burning babies. 

[Taylor]

27 minutes ago, Tank said:

then that begs the question of how/when to withdraw. How would you do it?

Word on the street is that tdawg knows a lot about withdrawing.

[UndertheHalo]

[Lhalo]

That's pretty funny. Man I could watch that movie over and over again without getting board. 

[Lhalo]

All this talk about Syria and no mention of the chaos in the shithole just to the south of us. Search #Culiacán on Twitter for loads of excitement that the whole family can enjoy.

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Lhalo