Revisiting the SP we didn't land

[Erstad Grit]

Like many here I has a list of SP that would make me more optimistic about the season. They are gone and we have yet another thread of venting. Hey, it's December and we all care. Here's my take and where Eppler get's a free pass or blame. 

Odorizzi- He was one SP I really wanted. Surprisingly he accepted the QO. Eppler gets a free pass.

Wheeler- This one stung. He has a lot of upside and seemed affordable before the off-season. Apparently Wheeler desired the east coast and 118 million is a lot to pay for a hopeful future without the past to provide a floor context. I give Eppler a free pass here despite me wanting Wheeler a lot.

Stras- His addition to the free-agency was a bit of a surprise. Well played by Stras. Not sure if he was ever really going to leave Nats as long as they were willing to pay up. Would anyone here swap out Rendon for Stras? Not sure I would. Eppler free pass.

Cole- It looks like he was our target and Angels assumed they land him. With all the crazy numbers thrown around I don't think I ever read a prediction to the level Cole received, and even that has potential to reach a 10th season. I give Eppler a free pass. We made an incredible offer, but it was time to let him go.  

Bumgarner- After Cole was off the board Bumgarner became my choice. His age, pedigree, and time-line and specifics of his injury all led me to believe he'd be a great target. Didn't see the AZ signing happening at all. Something about horses? Perhaps Bumgarner was going to AZ regardless. Would a 5/100 be enough to lure him here? Personally this is where I have some critique and blame for Eppler. I'd like to have seen a push here.

Keuchel- Let's assume 4/74 is the final result for Keuchel. Personally I'd rather have Price paid down for 3/60 if that's an actual option. I'd give Eppler a free pass for now, but it can be rescinded if nothing else happens.

Ryu- This was the toughest FA for me to evaluate. Ace level of pitching when healthy.......which from 2015-2018 was almost non-existent. I think I would have liked to see Angels match 4/80 and see what Ryu would do. Considering he was the last guy on the board I somewhat blame Eppler  here, but would also rescind it if a trade is made. 

My point is I don't think Eppler wasn't as inept as many here think he was. I'd wish he pushed more for Bumgarner and perhaps Ryu, but I'm willing to await a trade to see how it all resolves. 

 

 

[CanadianHalo]

[Pancake Bear]

5 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Would a 5/100 be enough to lure him here?

It was documented that that’s how much we’d have had to offer just to break even for Bum with the taxes in CA. In other words, no. We’d have had to offer substantially more than 100m.

[Second Base]

5/100 for a #3/4 starter. I don't blame Eppler for passing on Bumgarner. Not Keuchel. But Gibson, Pineda, Ryu, Wheeler, Corbin.... Yeah I blame him for those.

[mmc]

as I’ve said before, I don’t think we can really blame Eppler for missing out on individual players, the blame is that in his 5th offseason, it seems like he has once again failed to land any impact pitching outside of Ohtani, despite it being our biggest need all 5 years.  

[floplag]

9 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Like many here I has a list of SP that would make me more optimistic about the season. They are gone and we have yet another thread of venting. Hey, it's December and we all care. Here's my take and where Eppler get's a free pass or blame. 

Odorizzi- He was one SP I really wanted. Surprisingly he accepted the QO. Eppler gets a free pass.

Wheeler- This one stung. He has a lot of upside and seemed affordable before the off-season. Apparently Wheeler desired the east coast and 118 million is a lot to pay for a hopeful future without the past to provide a floor context. I give Eppler a free pass here despite me wanting Wheeler a lot.

Stras- His addition to the free-agency was a bit of a surprise. Well played by Stras. Not sure if he was ever really going to leave Nats as long as they were willing to pay up. Would anyone here swap out Rendon for Stras? Not sure I would. Eppler free pass.

Cole- It looks like he was our target and Angels assumed they land him. With all the crazy numbers thrown around I don't think I ever read a prediction to the level Cole received, and even that has potential to reach a 10th season. I give Eppler a free pass. We made an incredible offer, but it was time to let him go.  

Bumgarner- After Cole was off the board Bumgarner became my choice. His age, pedigree, and time-line and specifics of his injury all led me to believe he'd be a great target. Didn't see the AZ signing happening at all. Something about horses? Perhaps Bumgarner was going to AZ regardless. Would a 5/100 be enough to lure him here? Personally this is where I have some critique and blame for Eppler. I'd like to have seen a push here.

Keuchel- Let's assume 4/74 is the final result for Keuchel. Personally I'd rather have Price paid down for 3/60 if that's an actual option. I'd give Eppler a free pass for now, but it can be rescinded if nothing else happens.

Ryu- This was the toughest FA for me to evaluate. Ace level of pitching when healthy.......which from 2015-2018 was almost non-existent. I think I would have liked to see Angels match 4/80 and see what Ryu would do. Considering he was the last guy on the board I somewhat blame Eppler  here, but would also rescind it if a trade is made. 

My point is I don't think Eppler wasn't as inept as many here think he was. I'd wish he pushed more for Bumgarner and perhaps Ryu, but I'm willing to await a trade to see how it all resolves. 

 

 

I agree on nearly all. 
I really liked the idea of Wheeler and Keuchel over overpaying for the big names, but, that was never really an option if he went where he wanted to go. 
But, why are you assuming max for Keuchel?  if he reaches that its because he put in the work, stayed healthy, and got it done... otherwise its about 20M less.  Im finding it very hard to give a pass on that one. 

[Pancake Bear]

The thing with Keuchel and Ryu is both have warts: Keuchel has no real upside. He’s a slightly better version of Bundy. Hard to commit 18m per to that. Ryu has had two seasons worth of innings...in the last four seasons. One of those two seasons of innings was last year. Obviously Eppler felt that the four year risk wasn’t worth the shot that Ryu was healthy. Considering the Dodgers, who know Ryu better than anyone, thought the ERA leader of 2019 wasn’t worth 20m for four seasons either, maybe that’s the right call. (I would’ve probably tried a three year incentives deal for less than the 20, but maxing at 25 or so for good health and a fourth year vesting option also based on starts made. I don’t know if Ryu would’ve gone for it. Heck, maybe Eppler tried that.)

The thing of it is, that still puts us in a precarious position. I’m giving it till the end of the year, personally (or at least through the trade deadline), before I join the tar and feather parade, but it doesn’t feel like there is much margin for error here.

[Erstad Grit]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

I agree on nearly all. 
I really liked the idea of Wheeler and Keuchel over overpaying for the big names, but, that was never really an option if he went where he wanted to go. 
But, why are you assuming max for Keuchel?  if he reaches that its because he put in the work, stayed healthy, and got it done... otherwise its about 20M less.  Im finding it very hard to give a pass on that one. 

My thought was if Keuchel didn't hit his incentives to trigger the fourth year then it would obviously be a bad 3 year contract.  

[Vegas Halo Fan]

17 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

My point is I don't think Eppler wasn't as inept as many here think he was. I'd wish he pushed more for Bumgarner and perhaps Ryu, but I'm willing to await a trade to see how it all resolves. 

Not sure if it is 100 percent true, but a commentator on MLB Network said that Bumgarner was going to sign with an NL club because of familiarity, and because he enjoys batting.

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

My thought was if Keuchel didn't hit his incentives to trigger the fourth year then it would obviously be a bad 3 year contract.  

bingo 

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

My thought was if Keuchel didn't hit his incentives to trigger the fourth year then it would obviously be a bad 3 year contract.  

perhaps, but the base deal wasnt that bad at all i didnt think.  That for me is the one out of all this i dont get.  The rest i really dont have a problem with.

[mulwin444]

8 minutes ago, Second Base said:

5/100 for a #3/4 starter. I don't blame Eppler for passing on Bumgarner. Not Keuchel. But Gibson, Pineda, Ryu, Wheeler, Corbin.... Yeah I blame him for those.

Corbin wanted to sign for an East Coast team.  Yankees could have had him but wouldn't add the 6th year Washington was willing to so he ended up in D.C.

[Erstad Grit]

17 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Not sure if it is 100 percent true, but a commentator on MLB Network said that Bumgarner was going to sign with an NL club because of familiarity, and because he enjoys batting.

If that's true then personally I wouldn't blame Eppler for missing on everyone, except perhaps Ryu. 

[Taylor]

28 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Not sure if it is 100 percent true, but a commentator on MLB Network said that Bumgarner was going to sign with an NL club because of familiarity, and because he enjoys batting.

But Eppler!

[Taylor]

In before someone says, "If Trout cared about winning, he'd do a better job of enticing pitchers to come here."

[Jeff Fletcher]

 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I heard a radio interview with Bruce Bochy a week or so ago in which he said that Bumgarner really enjoyed Arizona even when he was with the Giants, and he wasn't surprised that he went there when he became a FA.

[Amazing Larry]

8 minutes ago, calscuf said:

Why would anyone want to live in Phoenix?  And it's not like the D-Backs are some dynasty. They even have shitty uniforms.

Probably the same reason thousands of people are leaving California for Arizona.

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

Probably the same reason thousands of people are leaving California for Arizona.

I don’t get it. Every time I have to go through Arizona I hate it. I can’t imagine anyone actually wanting to live there, especially when you can afford to live wherever you want. 

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

I don’t get it. Every time I have to go through Arizona I hate it. I can’t imagine anyone actually wanting to live there, especially when you can afford to live wherever you want. 

I’ve given some thought to retiring out there.  My in laws are retired in Havasu and love it.  The heat is just awful, but when it is hot here I stay out of the heat, I can’t imagine it would be any different there.  

[Amazing Larry]

2 minutes ago, calscuf said:

He’s not poor.

Rich guys don't like paying higher % of taxes either.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, calscuf said:

He’s not poor.

When you look at Madison doesn’t he just look like the type of guy who want to live where there is less politics?  

[Stradling]

Just now, calscuf said:

That redneck sheriff that Trump had to pardon is “less politics?”

Yes.  

[Stradling]

Just now, calscuf said:

Ok.

I’m pretty damn moderate but he looks less than that. 

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, calscuf said:

That redneck sheriff that Trump had to pardon is “less politics?”

Im guessing not everyone sees him as you do, just a hunch.