Talk me off this ledge....

[AngelsFaninGA]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Different expectations lead to different reactions.

Yeah this offseason was set up as "this is the year we finally open the checkbook and go all in on pitching" and then....

[Jay]

Just now, AngelsFaninGA said:

Yeah this offseason was set up as "this is the year we finally open the checkbook and go all in on pitching" and then....

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, AngelsFaninGA said:

Yeah this offseason was set up as "this is the year we finally open the checkbook and go all in on pitching" and then....

Yep...   I can totally understand why people are bent.   People may see it differently by opening day but for now it's hard to really blame anyone for spewing venom.  This shit has gone down exactly how I was worried it would.

[Stradling]

In years past we weren’t spending money, this year we spent but differently than we thought.  I really think people are underestimating how good Rendon is.  Yes we need pitching but at the same time we got a 6 win everyday player.  

[totdprods]

We were also competitive until Skaggs’ death at the start of July with a rotation much worse than what we have now, and an offense that has nowhere close to the potential we start 2020 with. 

And there’s time for more adds still.

[Inside Pitch]

35 minutes ago, Stradling said:

In years past we weren’t spending money, this year we spent but differently than we thought.  I really think people are underestimating how good Rendon is.  Yes we need pitching but at the same time we got a 6 win everyday player.  

Sure, some people may be underestimating the impact of Rendon, but they aren't understating the need for pitching coming into this winter..  or last year.  The pitching situation has been an ongoing issue...  earlier someone used the term PSTD and honestly -- that fits.   

Eppler's stance in previous years was that our rotation was good if healthy -- and while he was right, it was never healthy....  so.... even if he was right, the old line about the definition of insanity being repeating the same thing over and over starts to creep into people's heads.  Everyone understands the dude had his hands tied with the farm being what it was, the black holes all over the place, and the lack of available money but, that started to change last year and there is no denying his stepped on his dick .   So, while logically there were reasons why he went the route he did .... holy shit did things go sideways.   Anyway... IMO, people reacting emotionally to what they may view as more of the same is almost merited.

You said earlier than you could respond to some of this but that people would see it as you making excuses -- you get it.  The reality is that had last year FA moves not been the shit-fest they were then people might not be so on edge about what they have done this year.  It's fair for people to be skeptical even negative.  Personally, I'll be worried about them making some panic trade until they don't.  And I'm not opposed to making trades, I just don't want to see a Marsh moved for a Boyd or something along those lines.

[Revad]

20 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yep...   I can totally understand why people are bent.   People may see it differently by opening day but for now it's hard to really blame anyone for spewing venom.  This shit has gone down exactly how I was worried it would.

I can’t believe Eppler didn’t sign Ryu, but I don’t have that much information to be judging.  I really thought it would happen.

[T.G.]

It's all out of our control. There's no sense getting all worked up. There is still time for Eppler to swing a trade. Nothing has gone according to the fans' plan and that's ok. 

Arte made a commitment to Trout and I still believe he will honor that. Everything that has happened so far has a logical explanation for it. It might not be what you want to hear, but it is true 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Sure, some people may be underestimating the impact of Rendon, but they aren't understating the need for pitching coming into this winter..  or last year.  The pitching situation has been an ongoing issue...  earlier someone used the term PSTD and honestly -- that fits.   

Eppler's stance in previous years was that our rotation was good if healthy -- and while he was right, it was never healthy.... So, even if he was right, the old line about the definition of insanity being repeating the same thing over and over starts to creep into people's heads.  Everyone understands the dude had his hands tied with the farm being what it was, the black holes all over the place, and the lack of available money but, that started to change last year and there is no denying his stepped on his dick .   So while logically there were reasons why he went the route he did .... holy shit did things go sideways.   Anyway... IMO, people reacting emotionally to what they may view as more of the same is almost merited.

You said earlier than you could respond to some of this but that people would see it as you making excuses -- so you get it.  The reality is that had last year FA moves not been the shit-fest they were then people might not be so on edge about what they have done this year.  It's fair for people to be skeptical even negative.  Personally, I'll be worried about them making some panic trade until they don't.  And I'm not opposed to making trades, I just don't want to see a Marsh moved for a Boyd or something along those lines.

I guess I don’t see the adds of Bundy or Teheran as being similar to years past.  They were acquired because of certainty and not as some hope they will untap potential.  As has been said in a few threads they are who they are.  Cahill was a hope because he was solid the year before for the first time in awhile.  Harvey was a hope because of his short stint with the Reds.  These two just go out and do the same thing year in and year out and they pitch 160-180 innings.  Is it enough on the pitching front, no, it really isn’t.  I am impatient and I wanted them to sign Ryu and if it cost $80 million so be it.  Is he perfect, no, but he can be looked at as a top of the rotation starter on any team.  Where as Keuchel, who I would have taken, would only be considered a top of the rotation arm on our team and a few others.  I have seen nothing in Eppler’s personality that says he is going to panic.  I agree I don’t want Marsh moved for a guy like Boyd.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Revad said:

I can’t believe Eppler didn’t sign Ryu, but I don’t have that much information to be judging.  I really thought it would happen.

Four years...  33 years old on opening day.  Soft body.   They must have ultimately decided that the risks outweighed his chances of improving the pitching.  Whether that proves to be wise or unfounded we won't know for a bit.  I'm in the state of wondering what risks they do see as being acceptable.

[halonatic13]

9 hours ago, RBM said:

Trout and Rendon for the next seven years will be amazing.

Don't forget about Ohtani as well.  That's the best MOTO in baseball.  That itself will be a 20+ WAR for years to come.  Imagine that.  Trout 8.3, Rendon 6, Ohtani 6.  

[halonatic13]

All we can hope for is that Cole, Strasberg, Keuchel, Ryu blow their arm or get injured and Bundy, Teheran, Rendon have career years moving forward.  That is the only way to make these negative nancy pants shut their pie holes.  Just let the damn season play out!

[Inside Pitch]

On 12/23/2019 at 11:01 AM, Stradling said:

I guess I don’t see the adds of Bundy or Teheran as being similar to years past.  They were acquired because of certainty and not as some hope they will untap potential.  As has been said in a few threads they are who they are.  Cahill was a hope because he was solid the year before for the first time in awhile.  Harvey was a hope because of his short stint with the Reds.  These two just go out and do the same thing year in and year out and they pitch 160-180 innings.  Is it enough on the pitching front, no, it really isn’t.  I am impatient and I wanted them to sign Ryu and if it cost $80 million so be it.  Is he perfect, no, but he can be looked at as a top of the rotation starter on any team.  Where as Keuchel, who I would have taken, would only be considered a top of the rotation arm on our team and a few others.  I have seen nothing in Eppler’s personality that says he is going to panic.  I agree I don’t want Marsh moved for a guy like Boyd.  

And you know where I was BEFORE those two guys signed.  I was pretty ambivalent on both.  There was no denying Ryu's health issues were real and I didn't see Keuchel as being more than a GOOD innings eater moving forward.  I wasn't keen on investing 4 years into either guy.   My point isn't that the moves they made this year are identical to what's been done in the past, my point is that people have to be a bit shell shocked.  The expectations where there... then POOF...  Human nature and all that shit.

[Rally Gorilla]

11 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Why did we fail to sign any of the top 5 pitchers in FA when clearly that was our 100% need?

IMHO, the Angels decided that:

1)  It was going to take a huge overpay to get one of the top five.  (like 9/$324M).

2)  Overspending on one or maybe even two top five SP was not going to be enough to bring in a ring in 2020.

3)  Overpaying on pitchers  (who don't tend to age as well and are more prone to career-ending injuries)  was going to hamstring us and leave us in the same predicament we are in now for the foreseeable future.

4)  While the rest of the big market teams were focused on top 5 SP, we decided to make a play for our new superstar 3B who is a lot more likely to be productive throughout his contract and therefore more likely to help us end our playoff drought  (even if it may take until 2021 or 2022).

[Stradling]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

And you know where I was BEFORE those two guys signed.  I was pretty ambivalent on both.  There was no denying Ryu's health issues were real and I didn't see Keuchel as being more than a GOOD innings eater moving forward.  I wasn't keen on investing 4 years into either guy.   My point isn't that the moves they made this year aren't identical to what's been done in the past, my point is that people have to be a bit shell shocked.  The expectations where there... then POOF...  Human nature and all that shit.

Yea, I get it.  I thought for sure they would get a top guy.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea, I get it.  I thought for sure they would get a top guy.

So did a lot of other people which is why they are so bent...  It's only natural.

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

So did a lot of other people which is why they are so bent...  It's only natural.

be honest ......

don't you find it amusing? 

[popo85]

 

32 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Sure, some people may be underestimating the impact of Rendon, but they aren't understating the need for pitching coming into this winter..  or last year.  The pitching situation has been an ongoing issue...  earlier someone used the term PSTD and honestly -- that fits.   

Eppler's stance in previous years was that our rotation was good if healthy -- and while he was right, it was never healthy....  so.... even if he was right, the old line about the definition of insanity being repeating the same thing over and over starts to creep into people's heads.  Everyone understands the dude had his hands tied with the farm being what it was, the black holes all over the place, and the lack of available money but, that started to change last year and there is no denying his stepped on his dick .   So, while logically there were reasons why he went the route he did .... holy shit did things go sideways.   Anyway... IMO, people reacting emotionally to what they may view as more of the same is almost merited.

You said earlier than you could respond to some of this but that people would see it as you making excuses -- you get it.  The reality is that had last year FA moves not been the shit-fest they were then people might not be so on edge about what they have done this year.  It's fair for people to be skeptical even negative.  Personally, I'll be worried about them making some panic trade until they don't.  And I'm not opposed to making trades, I just don't want to see a Marsh moved for a Boyd or something along those lines.

Agreed there 100% 

Boyd's 2nd half numbers

14 starts 5.51 era 20 homers allowed in 78 innings , only a 3 to 1 so/ walk ratio

If they ask for Marsh, Angels should tell them  no way.

[Vlad27Trout27]

1. Cole wanted to be a Yankee and to get him, we had to out bit the yankees.

2. Wheeler wanted to stay closer to home

3.  Stras never planned to leave DC

4. keuchel would be great but i do not think we should have spend 18 mil on him. 

5. Ryu- 80 mil for 4 years is a big yike for 

6. jerry.....

[DMVol]

52 minutes ago, Stradling said:

In years past we weren’t spending money, this year we spent but differently than we thought.  I really think people are underestimating how good Rendon is.  Yes we need pitching but at the same time we got a 6 win everyday player.  

No doubt....but can an elite everyday player make up for a crap rotation? I'm ok to wait and see what else Eppler does....I will be surprised if he doesn't make a trade...

[Stradling]

Just now, DMVol said:

No doubt....but can an elite everyday player make up for a crap rotation? I'm ok to wait and see what else Eppler does....I will be surprised if he doesn't make a trade...

No, can Keuchel make up the difference from crap to good?  

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

They could have Rendon and Gibson and Pineda for less combined than what Keuchel will get.   To me that's the biggest miss..  Not Ryu or Keuchel.   I mean, they could have had Gibson, Pineda AND Ryu... if that's the kind of money they had to spend...  

Pineda and Gibson are now water under the bridge....question now becomes what is still out there, obviously likely a trade...

[CanadianHalo]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No, can Keuchel make up the difference from crap to good?  

He helps close the gap. Which should be the goal. It isn’t going to be just a one guy job to change the rotation from crap to good but a couple. Keuchel could’ve been part of that couple. 

Teheran is on a one year deal. Keuchel would’ve helped fill a need next offseason. 

[DMVol]

37 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No, can Keuchel make up the difference from crap to good?  

Crap was probably a little dramatic on my part....I think Keuchel, assuming he stays healthy, might have been the difference in mediocre to decent....decent is kind of on the fringes of good, not there but maybe closing in on it.........but, nothing to do now but see what happens next....I still think a trade is likely....

[T.G.]

Bottom line for me. I'm disappointed in off season construct of the pitching staff SO FAR. But... I am willing to give Eppler the benefit of the doubt FOR NOW.

If this is the rotation they start the season with, I won't hold any great expectations.

If, as a result they fail to make the postseason, I may not be opposed to seeing Eppler not get an extension. 

I will withhold my final judgement until the season ends one way or another.