YOU Build the 2020 Angels // YOUR Offseason Plan

[stormngt]

7 hours ago, totdprods said:

• 1: Sign SP Gerrit Cole - 7/$245m - back-loaded, 2020 salary at $25m
• 2. Sign C Jason Castro (or a non-tendered Mike Zunino) - 2/$12m
• 3. Trade RP Cam Bedrosian ($3m) and SP Andrew Heaney ($5m) to Chicago for SP Jose Quintana ($11.5m) - adds $3.5m
• 4. Sign IF Mike Moustakas - 2/$22m
• 5. Sign LHP Cole Hamels - 1/$10m
• 6. Extend SS Andrelton Simmons - 4/$40m, saving $5m from '20 payroll, as it renegotiates his '20 salary. Or, call it 5/$50m if you feel adding three years is too short.
• 7. Sign RHP Brandon Kintzler - 1/$5m
• 8. Trade 2B/OF Jahmai Jones and IF/OF Taylor Ward to Miami for RHP Elieser Hernandez 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

• Total payroll: ~$200m
  • Angels add 3 SPs who threw 525 IP in '19 in Cole, Hamels, and Quintana - two of which depart next winter allowing room for AAA options or another strong SP class
  • Angels essentially replace Kole Calhoun's offensive and defense production in the form of Mike Moustakas, who can capably handle 3B, 2B, or 1B as needed.
    • Moustakas' presence also eases all the pressures of needing Rengifo, Thaiss, La Stella, Walsh, Pujols to produce at or better than they did in '19.
  • Take a flier on Brandon Kintzler. Good luck!
  • Exchange two 'prospects' who don't really factor into future plans for a versatile, controllable, optionable, cheap arm in Hernandez.
    • Hernandez can slot into bullpen, rotation, or multi-inning relief, valuable since similar arms (Pena, Cole, Ramirez, Peters) are out-of-options.
       
• Rotation (5): G. Cole, Hamels, Ohtani, Quintana, Canning 
  • #6 SP will rotate between AAA SPs and Felix Pena as needed.
• Bullpen (6): Robles, Buttrey, Middleton, Anderson, Kintzler, Pena
  • final bullpen spots a battle between out-of-options arms like T. Cole, Peters, Mejia, Jewell, and Ramirez
• Lineup (9): Fletcher 2B, Trout CF, Ohtani DH, Upton LF, Moustakas 3B, Pujols 1B, Simmons SS, Goodwin RF, Castro/Zunino C
• Bench (5): Stassi/Smith C, La Stella CIF, Rengifo UT IF, Cozart UT IF, Hermosillo OF
  • That's 24 spots accounted for, with two bullpen spots open on the new 26-man roster.
• AAA Rotation: Barria, Sandoval, Suarez, Gohara
• AAA Bullpen: Bard, Rodriguez, Ortega, Madero
• AAA Depth: Thaiss, Wong, Walsh, perhaps Rojas and Bemboom, eventually, Adell, maybe Marsh.
   

While the rotation doesn't add the sexiest names, it adds a lot of quality innings. In my plan, the Angels also address potential risks at infield and catcher. The big thing I focused on in here was financial flexibility, much like Eppler has done every year. 
The Angels barely touch their farm system in this scenario, allowing young players to serve as depth while continuing to develop and push for playing time as the year goes on, with numerous spots on the 25-man opening up in the rotation and infield at the end of 2020. 

Another big plus to these short-term contracts is that it makes the amplified $200m budget a little more realistic to work with.

In addition, the numerous vets allow Eppler some flexibility to sell at the deadline - or at least trade surplus pieces in the rotation or infield should a need arise. With this set-up, the Angels are able to re-address any major needs again next winter, when Quintana, Cozart, Kintzler, and Hamels - almost $40m worth of salary. These arms can either be replaced by the Angels AAA rotation candidates, or the Angels can dip into yet another strong FA SP class.

 

 

I am really looking forward for when Moustakis retires so I wont read another "let's sign Moustakis" thread

[totdprods]

15 hours ago, wopphil said:

Great thread. My thoughts:

Sign Cole: 7/224 (back loaded to pay $27 mil in 2020)

Trade for Matthew Boyd or someone similar: $4 mil 

Sign Zack Wheeler:  5/110 (back loaded to pay $18 mil in 2020)

Sign a solid pen arm: 1/6.

Adds $55 mil, but doesnt do anything to address the offense, which i think needs help.

I still like Matt Boyd as a target even with his poor ending to '19. The K rate increase is a great indicator. HRs can be fluky.

[Docwaukee]

I am going to work under the assumption that we are at $145 right now (btw, @totdprods I don't think that includes benefits which you mentioned in your intro)

Option 1 - pie in the sky.  Payroll to $195 so about 50m to spend

Cole - 7/227.  25m in the first year.  25m, 25, 30, 33, 36, 39, 39 (+25)
Simmons - extension of 4/40.  7m, 8, 12, 13 (-8)
Wheeler - 4/80. 15m, 20, 20, 25 (+15)
Grandal - 4/60.  10m, 15, 15, 20 (+10)
Michael Wacha.  1/10.  (+10)
Pujols announces that he will retire after this year.  Angels buy out his final season and spread his 30m over 5 years but that increases it to 40m.  Starting in 2021, 6m, 7m, 8m, 9m, 10m.  (-23m for 2021)

+52 overall.  197m payroll.  
+45 for 2021.  135m in guaranteed salaries.    Probably another 45m in arb plus 10m in other.  So 190m to start the year.  Losses are Cozart, La Stella, Pujols, Wacha after 2020.  Doesn't leave a lot of room for improvements.  Although should be able to shed some of that arb money.  Could extend Heaney and backload a bit to decrease his arb number for 2021 and get a reasonable salary for 2022
+85 for 2022.  142m in guaranteed salaries.  This is where I'd likely extend Ohtani.  Arb number goes down to about 25m.  But we no longer have Heaney, Robles, Cam.  Payroll is around 175m without adding free agents.  Previous extension for Heaney and extension for Ohtani could offset.  

In 2023, we'll have about 165m in guarantees.  But most of the core would be locked up.  But after that year you'd have Wheeler, Grandal and Simmons off the books and things would loosen up again.  

rotation - Cole, Wheeler, Ohtani, Wacha, Heaney, Canning.  Depth of Sandoval, Barria, Peters, Suarez. 
pen - Robles, Buttrey, Middleton, Anderson, Cam, Noe, Mejia, Cole, Markel, Jewell, Bard, + other DFA pickups.  
lineup 
Fletch 2b/3b/5th OFer/SS
La Stella 

Option 2 - more reasonable.  payroll of 185-190 with about 40-45m to spend

Cole and Simmons contracts would be similar.  so about +17m for 2020 between the two.  
The Albert option doesn't fly and he just plays out his 2021.  
Gibson 3/30.  8, 8, 14 (+8)
Grandal 4/60.  15, 10, 15, 20 (+15)
Tanner Roark 1/5 (or someone like him)(+5)

total of 190m but a lot more flexibility for the future yet not as strong of a team for 2020.  

2021 - +50.  About 130m in guarantees plus about 45m in arb which you could manipulate a bit.  
2022 - +70 but again, could be some creative number crunching and extensions to give more room.  

Option 3 - year to year ish.  185m payroll

+17 for Cole/Simmons
Hamels 1/13 (+13)
Roark 1/5 (or someone like him) (+5)
dArnaud 2/12.  5m, 7m.  

+40 for 2020.   Will need pitching again next year but lots of flex going forward.  

Option 4 - no Cole

Wheeler 4/80 - 15, 20, 20, 25 (+15)
Bumgarner 4/72 - 15, 17, 20, 20 (+15)
Grandal 4/60 - 10, 15, 15, 20 (+10)
Roark 1/5 (or like) (+5)

+45 for 2020.  Still no true ace but a solid team

Option 5 - mostly offense 

Rendon - 7/205.  20, 25, 30, 30, 30, 35, 35
With the Simmons extension (+12)
Hamels 1/13 - (+13)
Wheeler 4/80 (+15)
dArnaud 2/12 (+5)

+45 for 2020

Option 6 - TRADES!! #1

Cole and Simmons option (+17)
Moustakas 2/24 (+10)
Wheeler 4/80 (+15)
Rengifo for Caratini

Option 7 - TRADES #2

Cole and Simmons (+17)
Trade Marsh, Rengifo, Sandoval, Barria and Cozart for Darvish, Contreras, Chatwood (+25)
Roark (or like) (+5)

+47m. 

Option 8 - the all in

Cole and Simmons (+17)
Wheeler (+15)
Rendon (+20)
Marsh, Rengifo, Sandoval, Cozart for Contreras and Darvish (+10m)

+62m.  payroll of 207m

rotation - Cole, Wheeler, Darvish, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning
lineup - La Stella (1b), Trout, Rendon, Ohtani, Contreras, Upton, Goodwin/Adell, Simmons, Fletcher.   

Option 9 - the consolation prize

Simmons (-8)
dArnaud 2/12 (+5)
Wheeler 4/80 (+20)
Gibson 3/30 (+8)
Roark 1/5 (or like) (+5)

+30m.  payroll of 175m.  

Option 10 - the monster pen.  Chapman opts out and we sign him.  

Simmons and Cole (+17)
Chapman 4/68.  15, 17, 17, 20 (+15)
Will Smith 2/20.  9, 11 (+9)
dArnaud 2/12 (+5)
Roark 1/5 (+5)

+51m  

 

 

 

[CanadianHalo]

I’ll opt for death before option 9

[totdprods]

Damn dude.

[CanadianHalo]

I really hope we trade for a catcher. I just don’t think handing 60+ mill to a 31 year old catcher will end well for us

[Angel Oracle]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 10:27 AM, Erstad Grit said:

Sign Cole 7/240

Sign Wheeler 4/100

Sign Wieters 1/5

 

Agreed, except that I would go for either Yan Gomes, Jason Castro, Travis D'Arnaud, or Machete.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Angel Oracle

[Second Base]

On 10/31/2019 at 1:11 PM, totdprods said:

But @Second Base, I do want to know what you would do! Like the different approach though. Will be fun revisit that plan next year. Really interesting but risky trio.

 

-------

1. Sign Zack Wheeler 5 years, 90 million. Year 1-10 million. Year 2-15 million. Year 3-20 million Year 4-24.5 million. Year 5-24.5 million.

2. Sign Hyun Jin Ryu 4 years 100 million. Year 1-15 million. Year 2-20 million. Year 3-30 million. Year 4-35 million. Mutual Option for 5th year at 20 million.

3. Sign Michael Pineda 2 years 24 million. Year 1-8 million. Year 2-16 million. Team option for year 3 at 16 million.

4. Sign Rich Hill 1 year 9 million.

5. Trade Andrew Heaney, Jahmai Jones and Hector Yan to the Cubs for catcher, Victor Caratini.

6. Sign Mitch Moreland 1 year, 7 million.

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Second Base

[Docwaukee]

btw, I think I'll move some of this discussion to own thread as the point of this one was to post your plan without debate.  

[Docwaukee]

please just post your ideas and stick to the intent of the OP.  If you'd like to debate this, we can start a new thread or continue another.  

[Second Base]

8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

please just post your ideas and stick to the intent of the OP.  If you'd like to debate this, we can start a new thread or continue another.  

My bad Doc, I'll shorten it up. 

[tdawg87]

I'm going big for once.

 

Cole: 7 years/230 million.

First year - $22 million

Second year - $28 million

Third year through Seventh year - $36 million

Trade Simmons to Atlanta for William Contreras (I know, wrong Contreras), Braden Shewmake and Kyle Muller. 

Free up $15 million in payroll, while adding a good catching prospect, decent SS prospect, and a good LHP prospect. 

Wheeler: 5 years/100 million.

First year - $16 million

Second year - $18 million

Third through Fifth year - $22 million

Motherfuckin Rendon: 7 years/230 million

First year - $25 million

Second year - $30 million

Third through Seventh years - $35 million

Chirinos: 1 year/8 million

 

In total, the Angels add $56 million for 2020. 

[CanadianHalo]

6 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Chirinos: 1 year/8 million

I hadn’t even looked at him (no idea why).
 

3.8 WAR last year 

.347 OBP over the last 3 years. Willson Contreras has a .349 OBP over the last 3 years 

I’d MUCH rather spend 8 mill on Chirinos than pay the price in prospects for Contreras this year (assuming the price for Contreras will be steep). 

 

 

[tdawg87]

29 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

I hadn’t even looked at him (no idea why).
 

3.8 WAR last year 

.347 OBP over the last 3 years. Willson Contreras has a .349 span over the period.

I’d MUCH rather spend 8 mill on Chirinos than pay the price in prospects for Contreras this year (assuming the price for Contreras will be steep). 

 

 

Tbf I think realistically he will get more than that after his great 2019, I just wanted to keep the payroll as reasonable as possible. 

But still, even at 1/15 I'd be fine with him. 

[Second Base]

9 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm going big for once.

 

Cole: 7 years/230 million.

First year - $22 million

Second year - $28 million

Third year through Seventh year - $36 million

Trade Simmons to Atlanta for William Contreras (I know, wrong Contreras), Braden Shewmake and Kyle Muller. 

Free up $15 million in payroll, while adding a good catching prospect, decent SS prospect, and a good LHP prospect. 

Wheeler: 5 years/100 million.

First year - $16 million

Second year - $18 million

Third through Fifth year - $22 million

Motherfuckin Rendon: 7 years/230 million

First year - $25 million

Second year - $30 million

Third through Seventh years - $35 million

Chirinos: 1 year/8 million

 

In total, the Angels add $56 million for 2020. 

F yeah! Seriously, I used to look at things like this and say to myself, "that's stupid and will never happen." Until I befriended a couple of extremely wealthy individuals who never leave that mode. Their ideas, everything from business, to parties, to workout regimen, are always way the frick out there, which is part of what made them as successful in the first place.

And I look at Billy, locks the GOAT up as an Angel for life, brings in to most fascinating player in 100 years in Shohei Ohtani, picks Brandon Marsh, Jo Adell and Jordyn Adams in back to back to back drafts, etc....

So now I look at a post like yours with a different scope. Why the frick not? That sounds epic.

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

DON’T pay Cole for his decline.
 

DON’T extend washed up Simmons. 

DO trade Trout for everything you can possibly get. Although they probably have already blown their chance as Trout is 4 years away from being the worst contract in baseball. If nothing else, trade him to unload his contract for the rebuilding years. Only throw in $50M if it comes with a huge return.

Finally start the rebuild which should have started 10 years ago.

 

you're just mailing it in at is point.

it makes me sad.

[Stradling]

If Vladdy was the owner of the Astros he’d start the rebuild after losing consecutive World Series.  

[Warfarin]

10 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm going big for once.

 

Cole: 7 years/230 million.

First year - $22 million

Second year - $28 million

Third year through Seventh year - $36 million

Trade Simmons to Atlanta for William Contreras (I know, wrong Contreras), Braden Shewmake and Kyle Muller. 

Free up $15 million in payroll, while adding a good catching prospect, decent SS prospect, and a good LHP prospect. 

Wheeler: 5 years/100 million.

First year - $16 million

Second year - $18 million

Third through Fifth year - $22 million

Motherfuckin Rendon: 7 years/230 million

First year - $25 million

Second year - $30 million

Third through Seventh years - $35 million

Chirinos: 1 year/8 million

 

In total, the Angels add $56 million for 2020. 

I love it!  I like it so much that I'm going to simulate a lineup for this:

Lineup:  2B LaStella, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, 3B Rendon, RF Goodwin, LF Upton, 1B Thaiss/Pujols, SS Fletcher, C Chirinos

Rotation:  Cole, Wheeler, Ohtani, Canning, Heaney, etc

Fantastic!

Although the trade does appear really lopsided towards us.  Using https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trade-simulator/  .. we are acquiring a "value" of 53.50 and only giving up a value of 3.10.  Still, one can dream

[wopphil]

10 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm going big for once.

 

Cole: 7 years/230 million.

First year - $22 million

Second year - $28 million

Third year through Seventh year - $36 million

Trade Simmons to Atlanta for William Contreras (I know, wrong Contreras), Braden Shewmake and Kyle Muller. 

Free up $15 million in payroll, while adding a good catching prospect, decent SS prospect, and a good LHP prospect. 

Wheeler: 5 years/100 million.

First year - $16 million

Second year - $18 million

Third through Fifth year - $22 million

Motherfuckin Rendon: 7 years/230 million

First year - $25 million

Second year - $30 million

Third through Seventh years - $35 million

Chirinos: 1 year/8 million

 

In total, the Angels add $56 million for 2020. 

Great approach. I definitely think the team should pursue Rendon, but there is no way of doing so - and still adding enough pitching - without trading Simmons. So then I ask myself whether we would be so much better off with Rendon than Simmons that it would be worth the extra cost, and I am not sure that it would be.

[totdprods]

@tdawg87, I agree with @Warfarin and @wopphil, the Simmons trade is a little too unrealistic in prospect return. With one year remaining, they’re getting maybe one top prospect for Simmons at best, and then complimentary pieces. Otherwise I like your idea! 

[tdawg87]

6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

@tdawg87, I agree with @Warfarin and @wopphil, the Simmons trade is a little too unrealistic in prospect return. With one year remaining, they’re getting maybe one top prospect for Simmons at best, and then complimentary pieces. Otherwise I like your idea! 

Tbh I wasn't concerned with the prospect return so much. I just picked 3 names I liked that weren't in ATL's top 5. Take out Muller and I think it's a realistic trade.

[AngelStew43]

Most of you are forgetting Keynan Middleton as a BP piece.  He'll be in there.  

I can see us signing Cole.  Personally, I hope we also sign Bumgarner.  Trade Simmons, buy out Calhoun, and trade Heaney, and we may have enough to sign Rendon.  

Austin Barnes is a decent C option who is blocked across town.  Maybe acquire him for a minor leaguer.  Barnes and Smith or Stassi could time share at C.

[Second Base]

22 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Most of you are forgetting Keynan Middleton as a BP piece.  He'll be in there.  

I can see us signing Cole.  Personally, I hope we also sign Bumgarner.  Trade Simmons, buy out Calhoun, and trade Heaney, and we may have enough to sign Rendon.  

Austin Barnes is a decent C option who is blocked across town.  Maybe acquire him for a minor leaguer.  Barnes and Smith or Stassi could time share at C.

Bumgarner's velo is way down, and he's got a ton of mileage on that arm. I wouldn't go anywhere near him until the peripheral numbers match up with his actual numbers in a positive manner. He's a major candidate for regression.

[tdawg87]

I also have this idea:

The Angels don't trade any of their pitchers because I mean really.

[AngelStew43]

Still a K per inning, pitching for the offensively challenged Giants.  I'd rather pay him than the injury prone Heaney.