YOU Build the 2020 Angels // YOUR Offseason Plan

[Warfarin]

Kinda thinking through some other options, and decided to update my offseason plan a little..

First, I think Arte will be wiling to spend up to around ~50mil in additional actual payroll (not AAV) above what we currently have in terms of obligations.

1. Sign Cole (7/245) – year 1 salary of 28mil
2. Sign Ryu (3/48) – year 1 salary of 15mil (I’d prefer Wheeler, but I suspect a lot of teams will bid him up, and Ryu doesn’t have a QO attached)
3. Sign Grandal (4/60) – year 1 salary of 12mil
4. Trade Simba for a SP3/SP4 pitching prospect (yes, I know unpopular, but saves ~15mil payroll)
5. Trade Bedrosian (-3mil) + 45/40 FV prospects to LAD for Stripling (very solid SP4, has flashed SP3 when given a chance to start consistently, was an All-Start game selection in 2018, only projected to earn 2mil in arbitration and has 3yrs of control) + Hernandez (super versatile and really useful, 6mil in arbitration, 1 yr of control) (add ~5mil)

This leads to a net payroll add of 45mil

Lineup: 3B La Stella, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, C Grandal, LF Upton, RF Goodwin (then later Adell), 2B Hernandez, 1B Thaiss/Pujols, SS Fletcher
Rotation: Cole, Ryu, Ohtani, Heaney, Stripling, Canning. Depth – Barria, Suarez, Sandoval, etc.  

Most of the plan is conventional (sign 2 SPs, sign C), but I included the Dodgers’ trade because I have read they are probably looking to move a few of their "redundant" / controllable pieces like Stripling (no room for him to start) and Hernandez (entering last year of team control, and they have Taylor who fills the same niche). Having someone like Hernandez would help this team a lot, because he is a solid defender all over the diamond – 2B, SS, 3B, LF/CF/RF, etc. We could plug him in anywhere and move our players around accordingly.  For example - he could be our starting 2B against RHP, then against LHP, he could be our starting RF (with Goodwin being benched), etc.  Or, Fletcher can be our 2B and Hernandez our SS (he plays well there, too).  

The key to all of this, though, is our rotation would be really solid with those acquisitions, and I do think it’s financially "doable."

[Tank]

On 11/5/2019 at 10:11 AM, Lou said:

any chance of getting a catcher that can hit above his weight?

Here’s hoping Pablo Sandoval becomes a catcher.

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

Here’s hoping Pablo Sandoval becomes a catcher.

[floplag]

On 11/5/2019 at 9:59 AM, Chuckster70 said:

Since Maldonado was Gerrit Cole's personal catcher and he caught Shohei Ohtani in his rookie campaign, why not sign both Maldonado and Castro (a great defensive catcher in his own right) to platoon at the position this season?

Maldonado seems to have a great working relationship with Cole too. So maybe signing him first would be good?

https://nypost.com/2019/10/06/gerrit-cole-shows-just-what-can-be-done-with-a-personal-catcher/

Pitch framing is where it's at yo! This little blurb on Castro from MLBTR:

"Castro’s defensive value is primarily driven by his pitch framing, as his career caught-stealing rate is roughly in line with the league average. His blocking numbers, per Baseball Prospectus, took a nosedive this season, although perhaps that’s to be expected in his first year back from knee surgery.  The 32-year-old missed almost all of 2018 due to a torn meniscus in his right knee and ended up ceding about half the playing time in 2019 to Mitch Garver, who had a breakout year for the Twins."

I think this depends entirely on how fast robo umps get the call, once that happens framing and pretty much anything other than keeping the ball from hitting the backstop become irrelevant. 
Im all about defensive catchers that can also stop the run game, but i wonder how relevant that really is anymore.

[totdprods]

With so many new FAs hitting the market, I thought I’d bump this and see if anyone wanted to tweak anything they originally posted. Please just quote yourself with edits.

[floplag]

OK, with the prices going where they are, i thought i would update my plan for argument sake. 

AT this point i think the idea that we would get 2 of the top 5 or 5 SP is becoming unrealistic.  I think we might still get Cole, but the idea of getting a Wheeler or any of the other guys in the top 10 behind him is starting to look out of reach. The second guy is going to be more likely something with upside, and risk.  Keuchel ish?

So let say its Cole and either Keuchel or Hamels for sake of  argument...  probably cost lets say 40-45M total.  i think pivoting to bats at that point makes sense.  I see 2 possible plays to be made.

#1 make the Cubs Blockbuster happen and get Contreras and Bryant.   Yeah, its gonna hurt, were going to lose some guys we might not want to, but what that does for the offense is indisputable.  Both are in age 27 seasons and Contreras has 3 more years Bryant 1 after this, neither gets expensive till after Pujols is gone, it makes some sense and we plug 2 holes we dont have pipeline for.  combined they would not cost 25M next year.   Im really starting to warm to this idea, pending the exact costs of course. 

#2 Make a lesser trade for a catcher perhaps from SD and sign Rendon. 

I dont expect this to be popular, but the idea of 2 pitchers costing a combined 400+M just doesnt seem feasible at this point. 

 

Edit, Hamels off the board
Edit 2, taking Bumgardner off the list if his talks are going north of 100M. 

[ettin]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 7:55 AM, Lou said:

you're just mailing it in at is point.

it makes me sad.

I went to go react to this with a laugh and realized I already had! But still funny obviously! 

[krAbs]

On 11/5/2019 at 10:11 AM, Lou said:

any chance of getting a catcher that can hit above his weight?

This comment sent me down a bit of a rabbit whole. Seems like of all the fielding positions, catchers have got to have the most trouble hitting this mark. Not only do they tend to have low averages, there also seem to be a lot of big boi catchers.

So, I went to ESPN and started looking at data. First off, I have some questions about these weights. For example, I don't believe for one moment that this absolute unit:

is only 185 pounds.

But, for data acquisition purposes, I had to assume their numbers are right. Going down the list, it looks like last year, the best catcher who can't manage to hit above his weight is: Tyler Flowers. Part of this comes from his piddly .229 batting average. But, to be fair to him, the fact that he weighs a whopping 260 lbs isn't doing him any favors here. That number threw me for a bit - he certainly doesn't LOOK like your typical chonky catcher. But, it looks like that is coming from the fact that he's freaking 6' 4". And catching. Somehow. For reference, the tallest catcher of all time is a 3-way tie between Pete Koegel, Don Gile, and Anton Falch, each clocking in at 6' 6".

However, the catcher with the best overall career batting average who can't manage to bat his weight is: Evan Gattis. Clocking in at 6'4", 270 lbs, Gattis has a career .247 batting average. Despite being completely unable to bat his weight, Gattis has picked up 8.3 bWAR over 6 seasons and 706 games. Given his girth, Gattis has yet to have a single season in which his batting average has been above his current weight.

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, krAbs said:

This comment sent me down a bit of a rabbit whole. Seems like of all the fielding positions, catchers have got to have the most trouble hitting this mark. Not only do they tend to have low averages, there also seem to be a lot of big boi catchers.

So, I went to ESPN and started looking at data. First off, I have some questions about these weights. For example, I don't believe for one moment that this absolute unit:

is only 185 pounds.

But, for data acquisition purposes, I had to assume their numbers are right. Going down the list, it looks like last year, the best catcher who can't manage to hit above his weight is: Tyler Flowers. Part of this comes from his piddly .229 batting average. But, to be fair to him, the fact that he weighs a whopping 260 lbs isn't doing him any favors here. That number threw me for a bit - he certainly doesn't LOOK like your typical chonky catcher. But, it looks like that is coming from the fact that he's freaking 6' 4". And catching. Somehow. For reference, the tallest catcher of all time is a 3-way tie between Pete Koegel, Don Gile, and Anton Falch, each clocking in at 6' 6".

However, the catcher with the best overall career batting average who can't manage to bat his weight is: Evan Gattis. Clocking in at 6'4", 270 lbs, Gattis has a career .247 batting average. Despite being completely unable to bat his weight, Gattis has picked up 8.3 bWAR over 6 seasons and 706 games. Given his girth, Gattis has yet to have a single season in which his batting average has been above his current weight.

dude

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

that was AWESOME!

[Chuck]

1. Sign Gerrit Cole
2. Trade Jordyn Adams, Jose Suarez, Jamie Barria and Taylor Ward for Wilson Contreras, Yu Darvish, Tyler Chatwood.
3. Sign Martin Maldonado to backup Contreras and catch Ohtani and Cole. Contreras to DH on days Ohtani is not available.

Rotation: Cole, Darvish, Ohtani, Canning, Bundy, Heaney.

(Sandoval and Chatwood as options, Chatwood to bullpen where he thrived as a long reliever, short reliever and spot starter last season).

Lineup: 2B Fletcher, 3B La Stella, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, C Contreras, LF Upton, 1B Pujols/Thaiss, RF Goodwin/Adell, SS Simmons.

[beatlesrule]

4 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

1. Sign Gerrit Cole
2. Trade Jordyn Adams, Jose Suarez, Jamie Barria and Taylor Ward for Wilson Contreras, Yu Darvish, Tyler Chatwood.
3. Sign Martin Maldonado to backup Contreras and catch Ohtani and Cole. Contreras to DH on days Ohtani is not available.

Rotation: Cole, Darvish, Ohtani, Canning, Bundy, Heaney.

(Sandoval and Chatwood as options, Chatwood to bullpen where he thrived as a long reliever, short reliever and spot starter last season).

Lineup: 2B Fletcher, 3B La Stella, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, C Contreras, LF Upton, 1B Pujols/Thaiss, RF Goodwin/Adell, SS Simmons.

How much salary are the Angels paying in that Cubs trade?

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

1. Sign Gerrit Cole
2. Trade Jordyn Adams, Jose Suarez, Jamie Barria and Taylor Ward for Wilson Contreras, Yu Darvish, Tyler Chatwood.
3. Sign Martin Maldonado to backup Contreras and catch Ohtani and Cole. Contreras to DH on days Ohtani is not available.

Rotation: Cole, Darvish, Ohtani, Canning, Bundy, Heaney.

(Sandoval and Chatwood as options, Chatwood to bullpen where he thrived as a long reliever, short reliever and spot starter last season).

Lineup: 2B Fletcher, 3B La Stella, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, C Contreras, LF Upton, 1B Pujols/Thaiss, RF Goodwin/Adell, SS Simmons.

I'd love that. 

[floplag]

7 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

1. Sign Gerrit Cole
2. Trade Jordyn Adams, Jose Suarez, Jamie Barria and Taylor Ward for Wilson Contreras, Yu Darvish, Tyler Chatwood.
3. Sign Martin Maldonado to backup Contreras and catch Ohtani and Cole. Contreras to DH on days Ohtani is not available.

Rotation: Cole, Darvish, Ohtani, Canning, Bundy, Heaney.

(Sandoval and Chatwood as options, Chatwood to bullpen where he thrived as a long reliever, short reliever and spot starter last season).

Lineup: 2B Fletcher, 3B La Stella, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, C Contreras, LF Upton, 1B Pujols/Thaiss, RF Goodwin/Adell, SS Simmons.

So many good variations on that Cubs trade, but i would shoot higher, get Contreras, Brant, and Darvish or Chatwood. 
Do that sign Cole, start printing playoff tickets. 

[totdprods]

Just now, beatlesrule said:

How much salary are the Angels paying in that Cubs trade?

Looks like just shy of $40m - maybe they can take Cozart back (and cut him if he can't make it out of ST) and the Angels chip in someone a little better or add an extra player in.

[beatlesrule]

39 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Looks like just shy of $40m - maybe they can take Cozart back (and cut him if he can't make it out of ST) and the Angels chip in someone a little better or add an extra player in.

I actually meant that the Cubs would have to be paying a good portion of it.

[floplag]

12 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

I actually meant that the Cubs would have to be paying a good portion of it.

The cubs arent going to pay much if any of it, the point is to shed.  Thats why were getting good players without talking about Adell.
I could esily see a deal where we get Contreras and Bryant, maybe either Darvish or Chatwood.... while they take Cozart and 2 or 3 of the kids.
They have direct need per thier papers ive read thru in CF and 2B, we have that without it costing Adell.

[Lou]

no.

 

team.

 

is.

 

taking.

 

Cozart.

[Chuck]

8 minutes ago, Lou said:

no.

 

team.

 

is.

 

taking.

 

Cozart.

I may need to add Cozart to the list of bad words so it just comes back as ******

[floplag]

11 minutes ago, Lou said:

no.

 

team.

 

is.

 

taking.

 

Cozart.

Thats just not true.  if they are shedding 30 m and taking back 10 and the priority is saving the 20... they will. 
They wont on merit, thats true, but a couple of the cubs own writers or posts ive read even suggesting taking him back to help balance it. 

[totdprods]

If Hector Olivera and his contract can be traded, anyone can.

Like @floplag said - if the Cubs day they’ll eat $13m in a deal like that, why not just eat Cozart’s $13m and possibly get a player out of it? He makes up no personnel value in the deal. Purely money with a name happened to be attached to it. 

Worst that happens is he takes up a 40-man spot for awhile, but they can always DFA him if they need it. 

[Lou]

you guys care to make a wager? 

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Lou said:

you guys care to make a wager? 

Hell no. I know odds are extremely slim he gets dealt, but I know they aren’t zero. 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

you guys care to make a wager? 

No, as the only way he gets dealt is in a blockbuster like that which are rare... but the idea that his or any other bad contract cant be moved under the right circumstances is just silly

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, floplag said:

No, as the only way he gets dealt is in a blockbuster like that which are rare... but the idea that his or any other bad contract cant be moved under the right circumstances is just silly

nope, I said nothing about any other bad contract. I am only commenting on Cozart, and am willing to wager on it. 

[popo85]

-Straus 5 yrs 140

-Dallas K 3yrs 50

-Trade Marsh, Sandoval for Contreras

 

Line up

Fletch

La Stella

Goat

Ohtani/Adell

Upton

Pujols

Contreras

Simmons

Goodwin/Adell

 

SP

Stras

Dalls K

Sho time

Canning

Heaney

Bundy