Who Do You Trade?

[Chris]

Can we extend the contract of a certain SS named Andrelton Simmons?

Then La Stella, Fletcher, Rengifo, Thaiss, etc. can cover the other 3 infield spots.  Oh and Pujols.

 

 

 

[Troll Daddy]

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

This is how I picture it playing out. 

2020: The Angels end up signing Gerrit Cole and Zack Wheeler and employ a six man rotation to help save Ohtani's arm.  Cole, Ohtani, Wheeler, Canning, Heaney and Barria/Suarez (riding the SLC to Anaheim express).  La Stella, Fletcher and Rengifo are share time at 2B and 3B, with La Stella also getting starts at 1B when Pujols is DHing and Ohtani isn't.  Adell will be in RF, Trout in CF and Upton in LF.  Angels win second wild card. 

2021: Pujols will enter into forced retirement of sorts.  The Angels can't keep him on the roster, he isn't performing, but he doesn't want to be relegated to the bench with the Angels legitimately contending, so he's bought out and gone, at least from the 25 man roster.  Thaiss is at 3B, Rengifo at 2B, Fletcher at UT and Upton at 1B.  Some days Upton is at DH and Fletcher is in the lineup.  Trout is flanked in the OF with Adell in LF and Marsh in RF.  Angels win the division. 

2022: Soriano and Rodriguez break into the rotation.  Cole, Ohtani, Wheeler, Canning, Soriano and Rodriguez.  Angels win the division and World Series. 

 

If the Angels do sign Gerrit Cole you won’t be seeing a 6 man rotation imo. 

[beatlesrule]

I was going to make a thread like this. I'd trade Cam, Kole, Buttrey, Lucroy(if healthy in time), Bour, Cole, Goodwin, basically anyone playing above their talent level or won't be here next year. I would have traded LaStella too. I want this ORG to realize they are not good enough to win the world series and that it will take a miracle to even win the 2nd wild card. Of course, knowing Moreno, he won't have a mini fire sale focusing on making next years team better so I don't expect Eppler to do much. I expect Arte to once again give the illusion that this team is a contender and not do the right thing before or at the deadline. To sum up, who or whom I would trade is meaningless because it won't happen.

Oh and to answer what players replace the ones being traded away, bring up these prospects people keep talking about and lets see what they can do. In an ideal world, Eppler would be trading for pitching that can help right away or that would be ready for next year. Moreno's plan has proven that it doesn't work. Will this be the year he finally realizes that?

 

[Lou]

I wouldn't trade Buttrey 

[disarcina]

troll daddy and beatlesrule have plausible scenarios.

one thing - I think - should be clear - is we are sellers at deadline time.

once again, the Halos are playing better baseball as of late and seem to have hit a point where they are actually playing better ball. 

so, once again, the temptation becomes 'go for it' 'try to capture a wild card spot?'  (Houston has sputtered of late but I don't see anyone catching them -- and then in the playoffs they are going to get some key players back and be stronger than ever).

we are one solid starter and perhaps another starter away from contending with the current line up.

LeCroy is now injured (for how long?) , the list of Beatlesrule players to trade include really only two of any value in terms of getting anything (pitching prospects, preferably) in return. Kole Calhoun and Buttrey.  As in a prior post comment - trading Buttrey for other pitching does not make a lot of sense,. Buttrey is still under club control for a number of years, Keep him,.  Not sure if the other players have much value and same thing for an extra OF'er (Calhoun).

Pujols contract is the issue -- it won't go away before it's done under any scenario.  We need the contract space/ money to buy that solid starter plus one.

Meanwhile, the 2019 season isn't totally over - the team is showing signs of life as of late.  Pitching.....and of course, we just lost a key starter in the worst possible way.

[TroutAdell]

6 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Wheeler's FA price tag is probably lower, with him giving up a lot more hits and HRs this season (1.38 higher ERA), although the K's/BBs (over 3/1) and durability (6 innings/start) are still solid enough.

Does he have the same stuff that he had a year ago?   That's the big question.

The way that Eppler and Ausmus use their starters you don’t need starters to go deep into a game. There needs to be more emphasis on the pen. The big arms in the minors are at least 2-3 years of away. Soft tossing lefties like Suarez and Sandoval are just depth pieces. Barria can be a back of the rotation starter. The problem is that the Angels have a whole staff full of back of the rotation pieces. Finally, the biggest need is behind the plate. The Angels haven’t developed a good catcher since Bengy Molina almost two decades ago. It has been nearly as long since Weaver and Lackey fronted a decent rotation. 

There will be at least a dozen teams in on Cole and probably that many on Wheeler. You can’t count on outbidding the Yankees, Dodgers and Red Sox for top of the rotation types. Eppler needs to trade for and develop some big arms and soon. 

[Troll Daddy]

Is there a potential playoff team needing a outfielder named Kole Calhoun? Angels will have to pay the (most) remainder of his contract to get anything of real value. 

[Reveille1984]

I think the only chance we have with Gerrit Cole is the fact that he's from Newport Beach, so if he wants to be back in OC we have a slight advantage I guess if the money's relative.

I'm willing to throw whatever it takes at him considering how awful our pitching has been and for so long.

[BackUpTheTruck]

4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

What would it take to acquire one of the Padres’ three Futures game pitchers?

What do the Padres need the most?   Granted with a deep farm, there probably isn’t much they don’t have in it?

Believe it or not, they need a center fielder. 

Calhoun would be an upgrade for them at center field (this year) over Margot and Myers.

[Tank]

I don’t see Hermosillo turning into anything special. If some team gave us decent return for him, I’d trade him in a heartbeat.

[Pancake Bear]

2 hours ago, Reveille1984 said:

I think the only chance we have with Gerrit Cole is the fact that he's from Newport Beach, so if he wants to be back in OC we have a slight advantage I guess if the money's relative.

I'm willing to throw whatever it takes at him considering how awful our pitching has been and for so long.

It’s less about if is he wanting to play back at home. A big part of our problem with FA is a lot of the best ones want to play on the east coast. Since Cole is from SoCal, theoretically he would be more open to playing here, or at least wouldn’t be as committed to the east as some other guys might. It’s all speculative, obviously, but it gives us at least a shot. 

[totdprods]

10 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

If the Angels do sign Gerrit Cole you won’t be seeing a 6 man rotation imo. 

A 6-man rotation can exist while keeping Cole on traditional rest, especially if the Angels have Barria, Suarez, and Sandoval still. They’d just keep rotating the three (and perhaps a long-reliever or a fourth option) through the final spot as it comes up.

[angelsnationtalk]

17 hours ago, Second Base said:

This is how I picture it playing out. 

2020: The Angels end up signing Gerrit Cole and Zack Wheeler and employ a six man rotation to help save Ohtani's arm.  Cole, Ohtani, Wheeler, Canning, Heaney and Barria/Suarez (riding the SLC to Anaheim express).  La Stella, Fletcher and Rengifo are share time at 2B and 3B, with La Stella also getting starts at 1B when Pujols is DHing and Ohtani isn't.  Adell will be in RF, Trout in CF and Upton in LF.  Angels win second wild card. 

2021: Pujols will enter into forced retirement of sorts.  The Angels can't keep him on the roster, he isn't performing, but he doesn't want to be relegated to the bench with the Angels legitimately contending, so he's bought out and gone, at least from the 25 man roster.  Thaiss is at 3B, Rengifo at 2B, Fletcher at UT and Upton at 1B.  Some days Upton is at DH and Fletcher is in the lineup.  Trout is flanked in the OF with Adell in LF and Marsh in RF.  Angels win the division. 

2022: Soriano and Rodriguez break into the rotation.  Cole, Ohtani, Wheeler, Canning, Soriano and Rodriguez.  Angels win the division and World Series. 

 

Love this x100.

One note i think is Canning slots as a #3 pitcher. Angels would also have to re-sign Wheeler since he's a free agent after 2019. Could be other options by then.

[angelsnationtalk]

9 hours ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

Believe it or not, they need a center fielder. 

Calhoun would be an upgrade for them at center field (this year) over Margot and Myers.

I doubt they trade a top prospect for Calhoun who has a 14M option next year then is a free agent. 

[beatlesrule]

The bullpen management has been ridiculous. Trade away any guys that will get you something in return before their arm falls off. This bullpen will be gassed by the middle of August. I am not impressed at all with Doug White. Any pitchers traded away will most likely do better elsewhere. Remember, there are usually always players that teams will trade for because they notice a flaw the current team does not and think they know how to fix it. Meaning that players we don't think have any value actually do. Again though, I'll believe Moreno doing the right thing when I see it.

[angelsnationtalk]

In all likelihood it's tough to see a certain someone on the trade block. Good major league candidates would have been Cahill, Harvey, Lucroy, Calhoun and Bour IF AND ONLY IF they were doing well. Any contending team would have swooped them up for another prospect in the likes of Buttrey and Sandoval. 

Unfortunately none of them are doing good at all. Sooo... We're left with this...

Taylor Ward- In terms of prospects we have an infield logjam. Ward would be the likely candidate since his defense has been sub par, but his bat is big in AAA. LaStella, Fletcher and Thaiss are all in front of him in terms of 3B. He could be a future tool at 1B or even LF (briefly) to limit his fielding chances and errors. But could also be used in a package for a SP.

Michael Hermosillo- He has MLB experience and can fit in as a 4th outfielder for a team. The issue is he doesn't have much value. He's better off with another team in terms of opportunity, but there's no return.

Jose Rojas- he's played 1B, 2B, 3B, and LF this year down in AAA. All while slashing .289/.357/.562 with a .919 OPS. A hometown product from Anaheim CA drafted in the 36th round. The only things against him is that he's already 26 and has tons of talented players ahead of him on the depth chart. The good thing is he is an extra base/RBI hitting machine and could force his way on the call-up list come September given he can play anywhere. The Angels might call him up to showcase his talent and then use him in a package for SP in the offseason. 

Jared Walsh- For a guy drafted in the 39th round, he has definitely turned some heads. He has also held his ground during his brief stint in the majors. His value has increased now that he is a two-way player. With a potential power bat + innings eating pitcher, Walsh could be a guy to hang on to. With Pujols's time at 1B in the air it might be best to wait and see with Walsh.

Tommy LaStella-  SHOCKER as much as you don't want to hear it, he has the most value that could bring back a nice return. He would be the guy used as a centerpiece with a few prospects to acquire a good pitcher. LaStella is having a career year and was named an All Star this year. Although sidelined by injury, any contender would be calling Eppler come deadline time about LaStella. Would the Angels make a deal? Maybe not. I Think it all comes down to how players like Thaiss, Rengifo, and Fletcher do until the deadline. If Thaiss and Rengifo show that they're ready then it could make the Angels look at making a move involving LaStella. We 're super deep in the infield with Fletcher, Rengifo, Ward, Thaiss, Rojas, all young and waiting for full time action so in reality this move might make sense. 

Brandon Marsh and Jo Adell- Nope. They're the future corner pieces next to Mike Trout and can both swap in CF if Trout needs a DH day or a day off. I'm going to say this now.... if Adell and Marsh make it as full time big leaguers, then they, with Trout in CF, will create the best outfield trio in the majors. Adell and Marsh have plus arms and Adell, Marsh and Trout would be stupid fast in the outfield. 

To sum this up my trade options for the 2019 deadline are (value or not)--- Taylor Ward, Michael Hermosillo, Jose Rojas, Tommy LaStella.

If Cahill, Harvey, Lucroy, Calhoun and Bour can perform then there's a chance that happens too. 

[Angel Oracle]

14 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

If the Angels do sign Gerrit Cole you won’t be seeing a 6 man rotation imo. 

Cole can start 32 games, the others not named Ohtani can start 27 each, and Ohtani can start 22. 

[Angel Oracle]

22 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

The bullpen management has been ridiculous. Trade away any guys that will get you something in return before their arm falls off. This bullpen will be gassed by the middle of August. I am not impressed at all with Doug White. Any pitchers traded away will most likely do better elsewhere. Remember, there are usually always players that teams will trade for because they notice a flaw the current team does not and think they know how to fix it. Meaning that players we don't think have any value actually do. Again though, I'll believe Moreno doing the right thing when I see it.

Remember though that even Bud Black needed into a 3rd season (2002) to get the pitching staff in order.    This staff is similar, some potential but no standout guys yet.

[Angel Oracle]

9 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

It’s less about if is he wanting to play back at home. A big part of our problem with FA is a lot of the best ones want to play on the east coast. Since Cole is from SoCal, theoretically he would be more open to playing here, or at least wouldn’t be as committed to the east as some other guys might. It’s all speculative, obviously, but it gives us at least a shot. 

That is why if he wants to play here, do whatever it takes to sign him.    He checks off pretty much every box for a #1/#2 starter.

This rotation desperately needs that one guy to lead them.

Sign him, and they likely don't have to delve back into a major FA signing for at least say 6 years, and that coming after refraining for years after Pujols and Hamilton. 

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

That is why if he wants to play here, do whatever it takes to sign him.    He checks off pretty much every box for a #1/#2 starter.

This rotation desperately needs that one guy to lead them.

Sign him, and they likely don't have to delve back into a major FA signing for at least say 6 years, and that coming after refraining for years after Pujols and Hamilton. 

This again leads me to think the best approach would be cashing in some prospects for an arm now, in case Cole cannot be pried away from Houston or is blown away by an offer Eppler isn't willing to exceed. 

There should be a contingency in place. No, we can't trade for or sign another arm that is another Gerrit Cole, but nabbing Bauer, Stroman, Ray, Boyd gives them something of a safety net. Depending on the money involved (probably eliminating Greinke) they could still pursue Cole, but, if he is unobtainable, they can spread that money around and sign a Ryu, Wheeler, Odorizzi, Gibson, Bumgarner, Hamels, Pineda, Roark to supplement.

Depending on that, they might still have some money leftover to go after a corner infield bat (presumably we'd eat into that in the trade for an arm) and look at guys like Abreu, Schoop, Kendrick, Walker, Smoak, Gennett, Donaldson, even Rendon.

There's four scenarios sort of in play...

• Don't trade now, do whatever it takes to sign Cole (likely a huge sum of money), and rely on prospects for the rotation and offense? 
• Trade for an arm now, still chase Cole with a huge offer, and, should he sign, have little money left to round out the depth we've dealt away.
• Trade for an arm now, make a strong but reasonable offer for Cole, throw fair offers at other SPs a tier down, ensure you sign one arm and perhaps still have money for a bat. Spread it around, hope for the best, hope it isn't a repeat of Cozart/Harvey/Cahill.
• Don't trade now, miss out on Cole, miss out on other FAs like last year, and wind up forced into dealing prospects to supplement team.

The only factor that I agree could prohibit them from trading now is the fact that players cost more at the deadline - usually - than in winter. 
Working against that is the possibility that the Angels need to move sooner rather than later to avoid a 40-man/Rule 5 jam - Jones, Sandoval, Ortega, Rojas all seem like clear adds. 
And for some targets - guys like Matt Boyd, who has many years of control, had a huge start and a shaky past month, could be at max value now, whereas other like Dylan Bundy or Jake Junis could be so under-the-radar, it's best to snatch up now with strong offers.

Edited July 9, 2019 by totdprods

[TroutAdell]

The Angels have plenty of back of the rotation types. I think they should hold off on any deadline trades and get through this season. Eppler and Swanson need to prioritize big arms in the early rounds instead of centerfielders. Finishing at or around .500 every season is a bad receipe for success. I think this would be a goo time to tank.

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, TroutTrumbo said:

Eppler and Swanson need to prioritize big arms in the early rounds instead of centerfielders. 

Those arms, true frontline arms, are rarely available, at least predictably, when the Angels typically pick, and they aren’t likely to make an impact as quickly as we’d need. 

Those centerfielders can be used to acquire those arms. 

[Tank]

On 7/8/2019 at 8:40 PM, disarcina said:

one thing - I think - should be clear - is we are sellers at deadline time.

if we're sellers at the deadline, that pushes our timeline to seriously compete back another couple of seasons. I disagree with this, quite a bit.

we're not one of two players away from greatness, but if we start selling off talent in the next 3 weeks, how are we ever going to be attractive to players like gerit Cole next winter?

[Chris]

We are not buyers or sellers.  We are "looking to improve the club."  I've heard a handful of GM's use that over the years, so I'm using it.

I think we should be more focused on competing in 2020.

 

[Lou]

51 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

Seriously, can we fix the title or stop bumping this?

If it's good enough for George Thorogood, it's good enough for me.