Starting Pitching in 2020

[Inside Pitch]

19 minutes ago, floplag said:

While i agree completely, how much of that is due to Barria simply having options Pena doesnt?   At least im assuming that to be the case as Barrias options have been the primary reason hes been jumbled to SLC and back so i assumed other guys who were performing worse didnt have those options?   I'm sure someone will correct me if im wrong on that but any more im truly not sure who has options or doesnt at the rate weve rotated some of them. . 

Options aren't really an issue.. 

I'm talking about simply moving Pena from the rotation to the bullpen where he's an upgrade over some of the guys they have used there instead of the revolving door of Cole, Bard, etc etc ..    They can still shuffle a guy back and forth.   While we are at it, they could always cut bait on Luis Garcia* and open up a another roster spot for more options shenanigans.

Pena has averaged less than 5 IP for over a month -- he's one of the main reasons for the RP drain.

*Garcia has a nice ERA but he's been absolutely shitty.

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

45 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

I'm good with Barria moving into the rotation and bumping Pena to the long man in the BP but, with Canning, Skaggs, and Heaney 1 - 3, we still need a 5th starter.

Barria, Canning, Heaney, Skaggs, Suarez ...   They still have Cahill around too.

[mulwin444]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Barria, Canning, Heaney, Skaggs, Suarez ...   They still have Cahill around too.

I don't have a problem with that rotation...it's what I would suggest given pieces...and I think they should release Cahill at this point.  I think, though, you are looking at Canning, Barria, and Suarez all at around 90 pitches a start so Noe Ramirez and Pena are likely going to be almost linked with certain starters to get to Bedrosian, Buttrey and Robles.  Then, J.C. Ramirez will enter the equation at come point,  With 12 spots for SP/BP, you are looking at Canning, Skaggs, Heaney, Barria, Suarez, Pena, Noe Ramirez, JC Ramirez, Middleton, Robles, Buttrey and Bedrosian with Anderson optioned to AAA and Garcia DFA'd.  If JC Ramirez doesn't work out, they can also release him and bring back Anderson.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

I don't have a problem with that rotation...it's what I would suggest given pieces...and I think they should release Cahill at this point.  I think, though, you are looking at Canning, Barria, and Suarez all at around 90 pitches a start so Noe Ramirez and Pena are likely going to be almost linked with certain starters to get to Bedrosian, Buttrey and Robles.  Then, J.C. Ramirez will enter the equation at come point,  With 12 spots for SP/BP, you are looking at Canning, Skaggs, Heaney, Barria, Suarez, Pena, Noe Ramirez, JC Ramirez, Middleton, Robles, Buttrey and Bedrosian with Anderson optioned to AAA and Garcia DFA'd.  If JC Ramirez doesn't work out, they can also release him and bring back Anderson.

They biggest issue with all those guys save for Skaggs and Heaney, possible Barria given he hasn't pitched as much is that they will all need to be shut down early.   Canning's career high IP totals was 113 innings.  Suarez 117.  Barria 141..   They cant risk overusing any of those dudes and have them go into next season with any lingering effects.

I could see them playing roster games, shutting them down due to fatigue and then possibly throwing Tropeano, Bridwell, and Peters out there to slop through some innings.

[floplag]

22 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Options aren't really an issue.. 

I'm talking about simply moving Pena from the rotation to the bullpen where he's an upgrade over some of the guys they have used there instead of the revolving door of Cole, Bard, etc etc ..    They can still shuffle a guy back and forth.   While we are at it, they could always cut bait on Luis Garcia* and open up a another roster spot for more options shenanigans.

Pena has averaged less than 5 IP for over a month -- he's one of the main reasons for the RP drain.

*Garcia has a nice ERA but he's been absolutely shitty.

 

Agreed, my point was that with all the SLC shuffling Barria has been available for many of those starts due to the wait period and such resulting in Pena and others getting more starts they otherwise might not have... maybe im over thinking it and my perception is misplaced but thats how it seems.

[Angel Oracle]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

They biggest issue with all those guys save for Skaggs and Heaney, possible Barria given he hasn't pitched as much is that they will all need to be shut down early.   Canning's career high IP totals was 113 innings.  Suarez 117.  Barria 141..   They cant risk overusing any of those dudes and have them go into next season with any lingering effects.

I could see them playing roster games, shutting them down due to fatigue and then possibly throwing Tropeano, Bridwell, and Peters out there to slop through some innings.

This is why they need to totally plan for 2020 and beyond at this point.   This rotation isn't built to contend.   Focus on the right number of innings for each and prepare them for 2020 and beyond, trade for a controlled pitcher in July (Cashner maybe, option for 2020), and get Gerrit Cole in here during the off-season to head up the rotation.   Trade either Heaney or Skaggs between now and the off-season, and Suarez takes that 2nd LHP spot in the rotation.   Plus, they will have Sandoval, rejuvenated Castillo, Barria, and Pena for starting depth.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, floplag said:

Agreed, my point was that with all the SLC shuffling Barria has been available for many of those starts due to the wait period and such resulting in Pena and others getting more starts they otherwise might not have... maybe im over thinking it and my perception is misplaced but thats how it seems.

I think he's made a total of 5 of a possible 16 starts to date, I know he's had an opener and was used as a reliever once in April.   So that's ten potential starts he's either not been available due to being sent down and having to wait 10 games or just not being in line to start.     I understood why he was on the SLC shuffle when they were going with Pena, Cahill, and Harvey in the rotation but the stakes have changed IMO.  I guess they may still want to try to see if Cahill can generate some value in order to send him off somewhere but Harvey is a sunk cost and Pena could actually be useful in the pen.  

Anyway, I don't know there are any right or wrong moves - mostly I just want to see Barria get a chance to establish himself.

[floplag]

46 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I think he's made a total of 5 of a possible 16 starts to date, I know he's had an opener and was used as a reliever once in April.   So that's ten potential starts he's either not been available due to being sent down and having to wait 10 games or just not being in line to start.     I understood why he was on the SLC shuffle when they were going with Pena, Cahill, and Harvey in the rotation but the stakes have changed IMO.  I guess they may still want to try to see if Cahill can generate some value in order to send him off somewhere but Harvey is a sunk cost and Pena could actually be useful in the pen.  

Anyway, I don't know there are any right or wrong moves - mostly I just want to see Barria get a chance to establish himself.

100% agreed.  And alas i think youre right on the Harvey/Cahill thing as they need to get something for them after making the investment.  

[Tank]

Well, this thread will change directions now...

[Amazing Larry]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

Well, this thread will change directions now...

Ya it's tough to think about the baseball side of things but this rotation was just dealt a huge blow.

[floplag]

i dont even want to think about this right now... reality will come soon enough.  

[Second Base]

Yeah I know it's upsetting to others to think about baseball right now, but it's how I get my mind off things. I don't mean to offend anti ne at all. 

Fact is, that's a huge loss to the on the field product, which doesn't even begin to describe the off the field loss.  Right now, 2020 is shaping up to be Ohtani, Canning, Heaney, Barria, Suarez. You have to figure the Angels wil be on the hunt for both depth and quality. Pat Sandoval helps depth to an extent, but again, quality is necessary here. 

All the more reason to be aggressive at the deadline or in the offseason. Prospects can help a team in multiple ways, even via trade. Unless Upton moves off of LF, there won't be any room for Marsh. A trade could become necessary here. 

[Amazing Larry]

Barria was called up today in light of the tragedy so I would expect him to stay up with the club for the foreseeable future barring injury. To me he isn’t part of the answer for a solid 2020 rotation. Moves definitely need to be made. 

[Claude]

5 hours ago, Tank said:

Well, this thread will change directions now...

I can’t think about the future right now but today’s tragedy will certainly impact Eppler’s mid-summer trade decisions. I’m still in disbelief. 

[Second Base]

4 hours ago, Lhalo said:

Barria was called up today in light of the tragedy so I would expect him to stay up with the club for the foreseeable future barring injury. To me he isn’t part of the answer for a solid 2020 rotation. Moves definitely need to be made. 

I wouldn't be so sure. Barria recorded an ERA under 3.50 last season as a 21 year old kid. His numbers in the minor leagues display just how utterly dominant Barria was as he cruised through each level. And while his numbers don't look as good this year, his FIP is under 4.00 and suggests that he's been unlucky and had improved since last year. 

I really do think Barria just needs to be put in the rotation and left alone. He thrived last year when the Angels did that. He's spent so much time bouncing to and from AAA this year and a messed up his rhythm. 

I feel like Barria is a solid #3/4 starter. He isn't exciting, but he is someone that does the job well.

[rafibomb]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

I wouldn't be so sure. Barria recorded an ERA under 3.50 last season as a 21 year old kid. His numbers in the minor leagues display just how utterly dominant Barria was as he cruised through each level. And while his numbers don't look as good this year, his FIP is under 4.00 and suggests that he's been unlucky and had improved since last year. 

I really do think Barria just needs to be put in the rotation and left alone. He thrived last year when the Angels did that. He's spent so much time bouncing to and from AAA this year and a messed up his rhythm. 

I feel like Barria is a solid #3/4 starter. He isn't exciting, but he is someone that does the job well.

His last start was legit.

[steveuk]

14 hours ago, Tank said:

Well, this thread will change directions now...

Yeah,  a few people might want to revisit their comments and think a little before they post in future - these are real people you are criticising! 

[yk9001]

22 hours ago, nando714 said:

The sooner we move on from Skaggs the better 

This one didn't age well.

[mulwin444]

8 hours ago, Second Base said:

I wouldn't be so sure. Barria recorded an ERA under 3.50 last season as a 21 year old kid. His numbers in the minor leagues display just how utterly dominant Barria was as he cruised through each level. And while his numbers don't look as good this year, his FIP is under 4.00 and suggests that he's been unlucky and had improved since last year. 

I really do think Barria just needs to be put in the rotation and left alone. He thrived last year when the Angels did that. He's spent so much time bouncing to and from AAA this year and a messed up his rhythm. 

I feel like Barria is a solid #3/4 starter. He isn't exciting, but he is someone that does the job well.

Ohtani, Heaney, Canning and Barria are a decent core to start with but, with Ohtani coming back from Tommy John surgery and pitching every 6th day, they need a predictable option.  Obviously, Gerrit Cole is the prize but there are options they could consider apart from trading:

Madison Bumgarner - Not what he used to be but still he's on pace for 200 IP this year and his peripherals are solid.  Depends on how fierce the competition will be but I wouldn't mind seeing where a 3-4 year offer might get them.

Jake Odorizzi - Based on his career, 2019 seems like an aberration but he appears to be a solid 3 starter that can make 30 starts a year.  Again, start at 3 years and work your way from.

Kyle Gibson - Another 3 or 4-ish starter that has seem an uptick in his K/9 and has been pretty solid his last two seasons.  Possible way to thicken the rotation.

Unless some guys opt out (Strasburg, Arrieta, Darvish) or don't have their options picked up (Archer, Cashner, Kulber, Quintana, Teheran), the remaining options are even less appealing.

[totdprods]

Free agents are expensive, and we arguably need two SPs. 

Trade for one that has control now, and sign one this winter. If there's some money leftover sign a mid-tier hitter to help ease whatever prospects were dealt.

[mulwin444]

9 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Free agents are expensive, and we arguably need two SPs. 

Trade for one that has control now, and sign one this winter. If there's some money leftover sign a mid-tier hitter to help ease whatever prospects were dealt.

I believe it was mentioned at some point the Angels are going to have a bit of a 40-man crunch about who to protect from the Rule V draft and who not so there is a pool to trade from.  Just looking at the various teams, you have options emerging though some are more realistic than others:

Marcus Stroman - Seems like a solid 2 starter with a year of control in 2020.  The Blue Jays need pitching so it may cost someone like Suarez/Sandoval along a lower level SP prospect as a starting point.  Honestly, Ohtani/Stroman would be a good 1-2 next season but they would definitely need to sign a another FA to fill out the 6-man rotation.  

Andrew Cashner - Has a $10 mil option next season, would cost a lot less than Stroman and, while he's not that exciting, his 4.03 ERA 1.254 WHIP 113 ERA+ is impressive in the offense heavy AL East.  He can hit and miss but is a pretty reliable rotation filler.

Dylan Bundy - Has 2 years of control beyond 2019.  He can miss some bats but, when they connect, it goes far.  Still, there is something there that might be salvageable.  More of a project than other options but, if he ends up being available as a buy-low candidate, why not take a shot?

Matthew Boyd - An intriguing lefty with control through 2022, he's been pretty unremarkable until this season which throws up caution flags.  For Detroit, you are looking at competing again at some point so why would you consider trading Boyd?  His age and his past.  At 28, you are likely getting his prime right now and for Detroit you are selling high based on past performance.  Despite his season, he feels like an overspend waiting to happen.

Noah Syndegaard - Not what he once was but still has some impressive stuff and two years of control.  For the Mets, it may feel like selling low so they may not have an interest but they are also the Mets and maybe they except a Stroman-like offer.

Marlins Young Starters - They have a lot and the Angels have a lot of position players in the minors...seems like a match.  Marsh, Jones, Walsh, Ward, Thaiss, Hermosillo...even Fletcher or Rengifo may be on deck considering the talent and control involved.

Sonny Gray - Yep, he signed a multi-year contract in the offseason but the Reds have some serious offensive needs that might line up with some of the Angels prospects.  

Robby Ray - Under control through next season and the Angels may match up in terms of OF prospects.  His stuff in legit despite his wildness.

Padres Young Starters - See the Marlins entry..maybe with the sweetner of taking on Wil Myers contract.

Jeff Samardzija - signed through 2020.  He's a body...but capable of some decent innings and likely would not cost a lot to acquire.

 

[34red4]

2 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

Jeff Samardzija - signed through 2020.  He's a body...but capable of some decent innings and likely would not cost a lot to acquire.

I think after yesterday’s tragedy, the team just needs someone who can pitch significant innings. I think he would be a good target. He looked very good in yesterday’s start.

Does anyone have any insight on his character? Maybe a veteran can help pick up some of the younger guys on the staff.

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Jinzu said:

I think after yesterday’s tragedy, the team just needs someone who can pitch significant innings. I think he would be a good target. He looked very good in yesterday’s start.

Does anyone have any insight on his character? Maybe a veteran can help pick up some of the younger guys on the staff.

The Angels have the depth to move past this on the mound. It's just a matter of upside. Anyone would tell you, they'd take Skaggs over Barria and Suarez and that's fair. But the likelihood of Barria and Suarez pitching as well as Skaggs would've down the stretch is also a likely outcome. 

Again, with or without Skaggs, this team needed upside. With him, it wasn't as pressing of a need because Skaggs had the potential to pitch at the top of a rotation for longer periods of time. Without him, well it removes any doubt as to what the Angels need to do to improve. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

If the Angels were planning on making Bauer an offer this year, he might be more receptive now.

[Lou]

1 minute ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

If the Angels were planning on making Bauer an offer this year, he might be more receptive now.

Or the constant reminders might be something he'd rather not have to deal with ...

Or he might realize that he'd like to be close to his family ...

who knows?