Will they trade Calhoun?

[totdprods]

In an ideal world, I still think I'd love to see:

• The Angels trade Skaggs to Houston for:
  • Catcher Garrett Stubbs (Astros #12) and
  • one of either pitchers Brandon Bailey (4.28 ERA, 2.80 ERA in '18) or Akeem Bostick (6.02 ERA, 3.67 ERA in '18),
  • or infielders Alex De Goti (.827 OPS), or Taylor Jones (.920 OPS) - none of whom are in their Top 30, all of whom are already in AAA, and all Rule 5 eligible. They're gonna get squeezed. Basically their versions of Fletcher and Walsh.
• With their newfound SP/IF prospect depth, the Angels can breathe a little easier in offering (at most) one of Ward/Thaiss/Rengifo, one of Suarez/Sandoval/Barria, one of Pina/Molina/Ortega/A Ball SP and one of Jones/Rojas/Walsh for Boyd. 
• Should the Angels fall further from contention, supplement further by trying to shed Calhoun, Lucroy, and maybe if lucky one of Allen, Cahill, Harvey, Robles, or Bedrosian for additional SP/IF prospect help. 

With that, the Angels essentially 'extend' Skaggs for a couple seasons at a cheaper rate, and with Boyd looking like a suddenly safer bet than Tyler, they cash in some of their own prospect depth while it's at high value, and they keep their payroll manageable enough to still pursue Cole or other big name SPs via FA (Cole, Ryu, Wheeler, Odorizzi) or trade (such as Greinke's salary) - even leaving enough room for a mid-tier bat add if needed.

Edited June 13, 2019 by totdprods

[TroutAdell]

On 6/11/2019 at 9:04 PM, mymerlincat said:

Yep, as soon as Upton comes back he should be shopped.  Upton, Trout, Puello, Goodwin, and Hermosillo can make up our MLB outfield depth.

Upton would require a huge payout for any team to offer anything decent. Upton is still one of the best LF in the game. He provides power and protection behind Trout and Ohtani. 

[totdprods]

24 minutes ago, TroutTrumbo said:

Upton would require a huge payout for any team to offer anything decent. Upton is still one of the best LF in the game. He provides power and protection behind Trout and Ohtani. 

He’s referring to the guy not named in the OFs he listed....

Edited June 14, 2019 by totdprods

[angelsnationtalk]

13 hours ago, Stradling said:

If the Angels are within a couple of games of the wild card they probably don’t trade him.  

Yeah that’d be the only reason they don’t. 

[ppenguin]

• Upton once healthy is a solid trade piece.
• Calhoun is a gold glove RF, left handed bat, and except for April is on fire & hits for power. That will be very attractive to teams. 
• Adell is ready
• Goodwin is solid player who was a great find & we have Marsh wating in minors plus others
• Cozart is excellent def at 3B or 2B. A team might think they can correct his hitting. Thus has at least a little value.
• Harvey prob not much value maybe someone desparate with injuries bites
• Cahill maybe a tiny bit of value but same as Harvey scenario
• We need at least 1 or 2 RP 
• We need at least 1 SP but 2 would be better 
• We have great lineup
• Several good pieces in bullpen
• SP worth keeping: Canning, Suarez, Pena, JC, maybe Heaney or Skaggs 
• Trade Upton (before he declines), Calhoun (reason above plus 1 yr club option at $14M), Cozart (team with need at 3B or 2B due to injury or other), & Skaggs (good just hasnt put it together & a club might feel they can get more out of him plus arb years left) plus other pieces
• Goal get Bauer or Kluber and 1 strong RP/closer, plus 1 other decent RP
• those moves make this team a contender next year and a wildcard push this year
• This year rotation of Bauer or Kluber plus Canning is great 1/2 punch. Add Pena w/opener, plus Heaney, and either Suarez or JC would be decent (not great but competitive)
• This year then excellent hitting, decent to solid fielding, good depth
• 4 solid bullpen guys once Middleton healthy plus few others that are ok
• 2020 have Bauer/Kluber, Canning, Ohtani as great 1, 2, 3. Then add top FA SP to max top 4 (team would have cap space with Calhoun, Cozart, Upton, Skaggs off the books). Then 5th is one of Heaney, Suarez, Pena, or JC.
• 2020 excellent lineup, youth, team control for several years, and improved farm
• 2020 bullpen - improved plus switch out guys who underperformed with new FA RP and should be good bullpen
• That is how team could set up to be in win mode for next 5+ yrs

 

[Lou]

9 minutes ago, ppenguin said:

Upton once healthy is a solid trade piece.

no-trade clause 

[totdprods]

14 minutes ago, ppenguin said:

Upton once healthy is a solid trade piece.

This actually helps me bring up a point I’ve wanted to take... @Lou already called out the NTC. 

We can’t really verify it, but I think the Angels have built a very player-friendly environment here - I very carefully avoided saying vet-friendly due to any old Scioscia connotations - and that’s a reason why Upton was open to waiving his NTC to come here and a reason he signed an extension. It’s also why I can see them retaining Calhoun even if we fall out of the race, provided we aren’t bowled over on an offer. 

And it’s not a bad thing to have this culture. It helps the Angels develop and recruit talent.

[ppenguin]

I think to go to a contender, Upton might waive NTC. Also, Asmus wants to get Adell up to MLB club and when he does, that take spot away from Upton or Calhoun so got to trade one or not resign Calhoun as i cant see Angels paying $14M club option in 2020 for Calhoun thus trading is best option vs not resigning and gettinf nothing. 

Add to that, Asmus has heaped praises on Goodwin and he really helped us when no one else was playing well he just kept rolling.  

Calhoun and Upton good guys, good players, and team guys which is another reason teams will want them.

For Upton when told by Asmus that Goodwin and Adell are going to start thus he would be 4th OF he might also waive NTC to get playing time. 

It truly would be a win win for Angels improving rotation, opening room for young star players to get full time playing time, plus improve farm. For other teams get great team guys, who are great defenders, with strong bats and power. For the guys, they get more playing time, and ability to maybe play for a title this year.

FYI, Scioscia would keep them and trade away youth for more aging vets. He was poor manager for last 5 yrs. 

 

[Lou]

9 minutes ago, ppenguin said:

For Upton when told by Asmus that Goodwin and Adell are going to start

Not happening

[T.G.]

55 minutes ago, ppenguin said:

• Adell is ready

If you say so.

[ppenguin]

We shall see obviously its all speculation, and Eppler holds things close but at least with Trout locked up and only 2 yrs of Pujols horrible contract left, the window is there to make moves to set up club for multiple winning seasons competing for div title and more. But have to make strong moves not just add hasbeens to rotation and expect to win a title. It probably wont happen, Eppler will prob grab old arms again and we have poor pitching again, but hey I can hope right? 

[T.G.]

No you can't.

[ppenguin]

lol

[T.G.]

I'm serious.

[eligrba]

17 hours ago, ppenguin said:

• Upton once healthy is a solid trade piece. No he isn't.  Additionally, why would you trade a talent like Upton when the team floundered for years trying to find a reliable left fielder.  Upton is a long term solution.
• Calhoun is a gold glove RF, left handed bat, and except for April is on fire & hits for power. That will be very attractive to teams. Yes
• Adell is ready Not according to his current developmental level.  He needs some time in AAA first, and he is not a guarantee to succeed.
• Goodwin is solid player who was a great find & we have Marsh wating in minors plus others Goodwin is having a nice year, but is starting to show signs of regression.  Marsh is not yet ready.
• Cozart is excellent def at 3B or 2B. A team might think they can correct his hitting. Thus has at least a little value. Cozart has no value to the Angels.  It really doen't matter what any perceived value he might have to other teams.  I expect the Angels to DFA him.  Rengifo sealed his fate.
• Harvey prob not much value maybe someone desparate with injuries bites No value.  He ran out of the smoke and broke the mirrors that got him one more year of major league baseball.
• Cahill maybe a tiny bit of value but same as Harvey scenario No value.
• We need at least 1 or 2 RP Never have enough good relief pitching.
• We need at least 1 SP but 2 would be better Never have enough good starting pitching.
• We have great lineup When they hit.  When they don't hit, they suck.
• Several good pieces in bullpen Yes, and thankfully they are young.
• SP worth keeping: Canning, Suarez, Pena, JC, maybe Heaney or Skaggs No to Skaggs.....he should be traded imo.
• Trade Upton (before he declines), Calhoun (reason above plus 1 yr club option at $14M), Cozart (team with need at 3B or 2B due to injury or other), & Skaggs (good just hasnt put it together & a club might feel they can get more out of him plus arb years left) plus other pieces Calhoun is the only player with trade potential.
• Goal get Bauer or Kluber and 1 strong RP/closer, plus 1 other decent RP Don't really know what to say to this.....maybe also acquire a unicorn?
• those moves make this team a contender next year and a wildcard push this year Already, sort of in the wildcard race.
• This year rotation of Bauer or Kluber plus Canning is great 1/2 punch. Add Pena w/opener, plus Heaney, and either Suarez or JC would be decent (not great but competitive) Don't forget about the unicorn.
• This year then excellent hitting, decent to solid fielding, good depth Already have these things this year.
• 4 solid bullpen guys once Middleton healthy plus few others that are ok Already have this when Middleton returns.
• 2020 have Bauer/Kluber, Canning, Ohtani as great 1, 2, 3. Then add top FA SP to max top 4 (team would have cap space with Calhoun, Cozart, Upton, Skaggs off the books). Then 5th is one of Heaney, Suarez, Pena, or JC. Ohtani is probably not throwing many innings the first back from tj surgery.
• 2020 excellent lineup, youth, team control for several years, and improved farm
• 2020 bullpen - improved plus switch out guys who underperformed with new FA RP and should be good bullpen
• That is how team could set up to be in win mode for next 5+ yrs

 

You have lots of thoughts......

[eligrba]

16 hours ago, ppenguin said:

I think to go to a contender, Upton might waive NTC. Also, Asmus wants to get Adell up to MLB club and when he does, that take spot away from Upton or Calhoun so got to trade one or not resign Calhoun as i cant see Angels paying $14M club option in 2020 for Calhoun thus trading is best option vs not resigning and gettinf nothing. 

Add to that, Asmus has heaped praises on Goodwin and he really helped us when no one else was playing well he just kept rolling.  

Calhoun and Upton good guys, good players, and team guys which is another reason teams will want them.

For Upton when told by Asmus that Goodwin and Adell are going to start thus he would be 4th OF he might also waive NTC to get playing time. 

It truly would be a win win for Angels improving rotation, opening room for young star players to get full time playing time, plus improve farm. For other teams get great team guys, who are great defenders, with strong bats and power. For the guys, they get more playing time, and ability to maybe play for a title this year.

FYI, Scioscia would keep them and trade away youth for more aging vets. He was poor manager for last 5 yrs. 

 

So, you are suggesting that to make the Angels a contender this year,  convince Upton to waive his no trade contract to go to a contender.

Seems logical.

[stormngt]

On 6/14/2019 at 2:43 PM, ppenguin said:

I think to go to a contender, Upton might waive NTC. Also, Asmus wants to get Adell up to MLB club and when he does, that take spot away from Upton or Calhoun so got to trade one or not resign Calhoun as i cant see Angels paying $14M club option in 2020 for Calhoun thus trading is best option vs not resigning and gettinf nothing. 

Add to that, Asmus has heaped praises on Goodwin and he really helped us when no one else was playing well he just kept rolling.  

Calhoun and Upton good guys, good players, and team guys which is another reason teams will want them.

For Upton when told by Asmus that Goodwin and Adell are going to start thus he would be 4th OF he might also waive NTC to get playing time. 

It truly would be a win win for Angels improving rotation, opening room for young star players to get full time playing time, plus improve farm. For other teams get great team guys, who are great defenders, with strong bats and power. For the guys, they get more playing time, and ability to maybe play for a title this year.

FYI, Scioscia would keep them and trade away youth for more aging vets. He was poor manager for last 5 yrs. 

 

Dont you mean GM?  After all it is the GM who trades, releases, and signs players!

Of course you knew that bit you just wanted to be an ass.

[Dtwncbad]

Upton isn't getting traded.  He is part of the success plan for now and the near future.

Calhoun would be the outfielder traded.

 

[34red4]

Some interesting things I noticed about Calhoun’s stats. Fangraphs does not rate him a good defender, and they rate his arm as bad. I’m not sure why that is as he’s still seen by most as a gold glove caliber RF.

The only thing I can think of in regards to his arm is that he is being punished by stats because he doesn’t have as many assists as he’s had in the past, but that’s because runners don’t test him as much out of respect for his arm. And I don’t think any stats take that respect into consideration.

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 hours ago, Jinzu said:

Some interesting things I noticed about Calhoun’s stats. Fangraphs does not rate him a good defender, and they rate his arm as bad. I’m not sure why that is as he’s still seen by most as a gold glove caliber RF.

The only thing I can think of in regards to his arm is that he is being punished by stats because he doesn’t have as many assists as he’s had in the past, but that’s because runners don’t test him as much out of respect for his arm. And I don’t think any stats take that respect into consideration.

It's still a small sample size... defensive stats aren't barely reliable year to year, let alone at the 1/3rd mark.

If you look at his inside edge fielding data he is well above average across the board. 

[Lou]

It seems as if defensive metrics are discounted by many. If that's the case, why give them any credence when it comes to WAR? 

How much is a player's overall WAR influenced by his defensive numbers? 

[Dtwncbad]

20 minutes ago, Lou said:

It seems as if defensive metrics are discounted by many. If that's the case, why give them any credence when it comes to WAR? 

How much is a player's overall WAR influenced by his defensive numbers? 

Your argument is offensive.

[Inside Pitch]

21 hours ago, Jinzu said:

Some interesting things I noticed about Calhoun’s stats. Fangraphs does not rate him a good defender, and they rate his arm as bad. I’m not sure why that is as he’s still seen by most as a gold glove caliber RF.

The only thing I can think of in regards to his arm is that he is being punished by stats because he doesn’t have as many assists as he’s had in the past, but that’s because runners don’t test him as much out of respect for his arm. And I don’t think any stats take that respect into consideration.

Sample sizes and how the data is acquired.   There have been a few throws this year where Calhoun got the throw in on time but the guy on the other end muffed up the tag -- he may be getting dinged for those because they weren't ruled errors but the algorithm may still grade it as a potential out.  

Stats aren't perfect, defensive stats are the most problematic of all because the chances are limited compared to everything else players do.

[Inside Pitch]

BTW -- I'm not sure Mathew Boyd should be someone you give up a ton for...

He's having an amazing year no doubt and seen a spike in K rate, but he really hasn't seen a big change in pitch usage, velocity, or contact rates other than batters have been swinging at more pitches outside the zone (and missing).    This has happened before with guys only to see them revert to their career norms the next season.   

There are positives but there are also reasons to question whether this is a legit alteration of his career path or an outlier season.

[totdprods]

53 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

BTW -- I'm not sure Mathew Boyd should be someone you give up a ton for...

He's having an amazing year no doubt and seen a spike in K rate, but he really hasn't seen a big change in pitch usage, velocity, or contact rates other than batters have been swinging at more pitches outside the zone (and missing).    This has happened before with guys only to see them revert to their career norms the next season.   

There are positives but there are also reasons to question whether this is a legit alteration of his career path or an outlier season.

It’s a gamble, for sure, but I feel it’s one worth taking - and even if this proves an outlier season, his age, cost, and control all bode well for future value - he’s been fairly durable and not dramatically different from Heaney or Skaggs production. While I know that isn’t particularly appealing, it is a substantial step up from the filler we’ve used in recent years, and hopefully he’d outproduce that. Basically, his lesser outcome is at the very least good insurance. 3.5 years of control and a $2.6m salary in early arbitration isn't as good as what you get with a SP prospect, but it's not a vast difference.

It’s also why I think the Angels could also leverage some of their more boom/bust prospects into compromising a bulk of the deal - guys like Ward, Jones, Adams, Maitan, a pitcher like Barria, Suarez, Sandoval, guys who might be near MLB-ready but not frontline upside, including the many A/A+ SPs, and also guys like Rojas and Walsh who could either be legit MLBers or 4A minor league journeyman.

I still really like how acquiring Boyd leaves us ample payroll to upgrade in the offseason, either with another SP addition (especially since we’d surely deal one good SP prospect for him) or a corner infield bat to help with any prospects we deal. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by totdprods