Does anyone miss the Autry days?

[Lou]

Gene Autry was always on Forbes' list of Richest Americans. 

He chose to be "small market"

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, floplag said:

Gene didnt have near the resources Arte does.

That's just flat out wrong. Autrey was worth millions. His sale of KLTV in 82 was worth $245 million. In today's money, that's 642 million dollars. Dude was rich as hell.

[Torridd]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

Do you miss the times when the Angel's would make big transaction with the FA market like the signing of Pujols. Wilson, and Hamilton?

I do.

[Torridd]

49 minutes ago, floplag said:

 Interesting thought.  I do not miss at all being told were a small market club, that was laughable, but i do miss the cowboy.
We never really had great expectations back then, though we would go get a name here and there but i always hated being the step child of the LA market.  
Alas it would seem were hearkening back to those days again with fixed budgets and profits over winning this time for all the wrong reasons.  I got it back then we didnt have the resources we do today, i dont get it now.  I hope im proven wrong about that soon. 

I should have said Gene Autry days. That's what I meant.

[Inside Pitch]

18 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

That's just flat out wrong. Autrey was worth millions. His sale of KLTV in 82 was worth $245 million. In today's money, that's 642 million dollars. Dude was rich as hell.

Angels payroll was under 10 mil.... 

[floplag]

The issues isnt personal wealth of the owners, its about team revenue and capabilities. 

We didnt draw the attendance we do then, you could walk up to the gate at game time and get amazing seats, i did it many times.

The team today has a lucrative TV deal, no debt, investors, top level attendance, revenue sharing and other proceeds.  The revenue streams available today make more options viable without even considering the owners wealth, but if you want to go there ill remind you that this team has increased in value over 10 times since Arte bought it, thats one hell of a return on investment as far as i can see.  We could easily blow away the tax for a few years if we wanted to and even the investors wouldn't likely notice.

I see a huge difference between today and those days myself.  Ive never expected the owner to gut his personal finances for a winner, thats silly, noone does that its not sustainable... but in this case today, when we could do so easily without him touching his personal accounts, yeah, i feel like im entitled to that view after watching and reading this club for over 40 years now. 

[Inside Pitch]

13 minutes ago, floplag said:

The issues isnt personal wealth of the owners, its about team revenue and capabilities. 

We didnt draw the attendance we do then, you could walk up to the gate at game time and get amazing seats, i did it many times.

The team today has a lucrative TV deal, no debt, investors, top level attendance, revenue sharing and other proceeds.  The revenue streams available today make more options viable without even considering the owners wealth, but if you want to go there ill remind you that this team has increased in value over 10 times since Arte bought it, thats one hell of a return on investment as far as i can see.  We could easily blow away the tax for a few years if we wanted to and even the investors wouldn't likely notice.

I see a huge difference between today and those days myself.  Ive never expected the owner to gut his personal finances for a winner, thats silly, noone does that its not sustainable... but in this case today, when we could do so easily without him touching his personal accounts, yeah, i feel like im entitled to that view after watching and reading this club for over 40 years now. 

You seemingly can't see the forest for the trees here...  It was Arte's willingness to invest his personal fortune that grew the revenues and everything else.  Jackie openly mocked Moreno when he bought the team and talked about pumping money into the team to grow his business.  

Btw, Autry had no debt, he owned the TV station that aired the team's games and KTLA was aired over cable the same way WGN and WTBS were.   The Angels led the AL in total attendance for the 80s decade, twice setting the AL single season attendance record.. And paying into revenue sharing doesn't make the team money,  it's costs them dollars.   Basically none of your talking points help your cause.  

Lastly... He bought the Angels for 2 million... Sold them for 150 million.

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Inside Pitch

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

You seemingly can't see the forest for the trees here...  It was Arte's willingness to invest his personal fortune that grew the revenues and everything else.  Jackie openly mocked Moreno when he bought the team and talked about pumping money into the team to grow his business.  

Btw, Autry had no debt, he owned the TV station that aired the team's games and KTLA was aired over cable the same way WGN and WTBS were.   The Angels led the AL in total attendance for the 80s decade, twice setting the AL single season attendance record.. And paying into revenue sharing doesn't make the team money,  it's costs them dollars.   Basically none of your talking points help your cause.  

Lastly... He bought the Angels for 2 million... Sold them for 150 million.

 

Jackie was a blight on the franchise that set us back tremendously over her greed. 
You can think what you will about the rest, i was there, ill keep my own council on that

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, floplag said:

Jackie was a blight on the franchise that set us back tremendously over her greed. 
You can think what you will about the rest, i was there, ill keep my own council on that

IP was there too.

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, floplag said:

Jackie was a blight on the franchise that set us back tremendously over her greed. 
You can think what you will about the rest, i was there, ill keep my own council on that

So was I, and everything I said was correct.  I should have added that Autry had investors until 1983, when he finally bought them out. 

You stand fast with your opinions, I'll let the facts speak for themselves.

[floplag]

Its funny how many people come out of the woodwork to bash Autry, yet defend Arte when people like me suggest he spend over what they seem to think are the same issues? 

[Inside Pitch]

8 minutes ago, floplag said:

Its funny how many people come out of the woodwork to bash Autry, yet defend Arte when people like me suggest he spend over what they seem to think are the same issues? 

I didn't bash Autry.  I'm not defending Moreno.   I've also not bashed you for suggesting he spend more.  Facts are a powerful thing.

[floplag]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

I didn't bash Autry.  I'm not defending Moreno.   I've also not bashed you for suggesting he spend more.  Facts are a powerful thing.

Yes, they are. But we seem to far too often confuse opinion and interpretation with fact.  ill just leave it at that. 

[Lou]

it isn't bashing Autry just because we don't agree with you

btw, a lot of posters here experienced the Autry days, too 

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, eaterfan said:

Does anyone miss the days before electricity? I was having nostalgia for the days when we never had power outages. Sure there were no lights, tv, or internet but I prefer it. Thoughts?

Back when people had to draw flip books to watch porn. And even then, you could only watch during daylight.

Back then people in alaska would scoff at no nut november.

[Angel Oracle]

With salaries exploding, it was only a matter of time before the Autrys were priced out of MLB.

Jackie Autry did gain $148 million when sold to Disney.   However, today, that will get you one decent year's payroll. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Loved the Cowboy! Hated his wife! Gene was never afraid to sign a FA his wife kept the keys to the vault buried in ...

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

With salaries exploding, it was only a matter of time before the Autrys were priced out of MLB.

Jackie Autry did gain $148 million when sold to Disney.   However, today, that will get you one decent year's payroll. 

........ holy crap. Thats a good way to put it.

[Kevin]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Back when people had to draw flip books to watch porn. And even then, you could only watch during daylight.

Back then people in alaska would scoff at no nut november.

 

[Lou]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Back when people had to draw flip books to watch porn

we're going to need verification of this.

@Crampknees ? 

[VariousCrap]

The only thing I miss was how you could show up to the stadium right at game time and get seats pretty much anywhere in the stadium because most games had low attendance numbers.  That was great.

[Crampknees]

45 minutes ago, Lou said:

we're going to need verification of this.

@Crampknees ? 

It was a huge innovation at the time. At the senior center you can check out a Cialis and a flip book, then prowl the lounge after our tapioca snack. . 

[itsKnoppUitsme]

11 hours ago, DMVol said:

Gene: Yes

Jackie: Not so much

Bob Rowe of Angel talk once hung up on me when I said that the only difference between Jackie Autry & Georgia Frontiere was that Jackie did not have to kill her husband to gain control of the franchise 

[Docwaukee]

Revenue sharing negatively impacts the halos ability to spend.  

the business of baseball has changed so much from 1980 to now, it's like trying to compare Trout to Ty Cobb.  

the min salary and avg salary in 1980 were 30k and 143k respectively.  Now they are 507k and almost 4 mil.  Increases of 18x and 28x respectively.  

Arte has seen a 10x increase in the value of the Angels team since 2003.  Autry saw a 10x increase but over a much longer period. 

At the end of the day, neither Gene nor Arty are/were losing money.  

My biggest issue with Arte isn't the halos payroll.  I think what he's willing to spend is plenty to field a winning team.  My issue is that he is complicit in some of the mistakes that were made relative to poor decision making.  It wasn't spending that got him in trouble.  It was spending stupidly.  Mike Trout is a golden goose.  How much revenue over the last 6-7 years can be traced back to him?  Push payroll a bit because of those mistakes.  I am not implying that he needed to hand out other huge contracts and compound the problem, but he could have given the ok to have his gm thoughtfully stop gap 2b, LF, SP etc with short term deals instead of fielding teams that included Johnny Giavotella, Ortega/Nava/Gentry,   Revere/Maybin, Espinosa, or a crew of oft injured starters and a bunch of waiver pickups to bridge the inevitable innings gaps.  

Maybe he's actually pushed things further that he's wanted to already and it's just hard to tell because we don't know the true finances but it feels like the next two years would be the optimum time to extend.