Angels Acquire Ian Kinsler for SP Hernandez, OF Montgomery

[krAbs]

7 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Moreover, per fangraphs, Kinsler was the second best defensive 2B in the big leagues last year among qualifiers, and rated way better than anyone we rolled out at second.  Just goes with the theme of acquiring strong defenders up the middle.  Our pitchers will be grateful for him next year.

Our middle infield is going to be a black hole.

[Turd Ferguson]

I guess I’m a nutswinger, bc I love the deal. And I’ve hated plenty of our deals. Eppler has been great about risk/reward and I thin this is another low risk/high reward move with no long term issues.

[UndertheHalo]

I would imagine the bitching will mostly stop now that we know they didn’t really give up any significant prospect. 

Wont hear anymore from me anyway. 

[WeatherWonk]

1 hour ago, Throwman91 said:

Right, so we will only have 2 lefties in our lineup... and that's only when Ohtani is playing... think about that for a sec.  Half our games will have a lineup of 8 righties 1 lefty lol...

Believe the Angels actually hit better against righties than lefties last year.

[ELEVEN]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

he's a team option he wont be hitting FA

Gah!!

[TroutField]

36 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

First of all, I have a little Scotty defending to do.  For those of you saying he overvalues prospects, why don't you put your stamp on a player that's 5 years or more from the major.  Where are your balls?  Anyone can say a prospect evaluator overvalues talent 5 years later.  Why don't you put some time and effort into providing insight into the Halos minor league system?  Yah.  That's what I thought.  

Scotty has positive things to say and if you read closely, you'll see what's real.  Montgomery a 4th OFer and Hernandez a future reliever.  Potentially high end if he makes it.  

Various Crap and Beatlesrule can suck it with their monday morning QB BS.  You reap the benefit of having information handed to you for your pleasure and then you bitch about it.  A lot of time and effort goes into accumulating that.  Show some appreciation.  

 

Second.  This trade seems fair enough although Hernandez could be that guy who's a stud 5 years from now and everyone points out he used to be in the Angels org.  Montgomery is 4th OFer who could have a couple seasons of being a fringe starter due to discipline.  

I'm not a huge kinsler fan and don't like giving up any prospects for a 1yr rental unless you are ready to be a 90+ win team.  Maybe we are, but that's still up in the air.  

I don’t mind rentals if you don’t have to give up legit prospects for them. We gave up a lottery pick arm that we can replace in the draft and a fringe starter/4th outfielder we would not have any use for with all of our outfield depth in the minors. 

I mean I would have rather gone with Cozart or Kendrick at 2nd, if Kinsler bounces back to a 5 or 6 WAR player we are all stoked with this trade. 

[Dtwncbad]

8 minutes ago, TroutField said:

I don’t mind rentals if you don’t have to give up legit prospects for them. We gave up a lottery pick arm that we can replace in the draft and a fringe starter/4th outfielder we would not have any use for with all of our outfield depth in the minors. 

I mean I would have rather gone with Cozart or Kendrick at 2nd, if Kinsler bounces back to a 5 or 6 WAR player we are all stoked with this trade. 

What?  If he puts up a 2.5 WAR I am happy and it's a great deal.

[VariousCrap]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

First of all, I have a little Scotty defending to do.  For those of you saying he overvalues prospects, why don't you put your stamp on a player that's 5 years or more from the major.  Where are your balls?  Anyone can say a prospect evaluator overvalues talent 5 years later.  Why don't you put some time and effort into providing insight into the Halos minor league system?  Yah.  That's what I thought.  

Scotty has positive things to say and if you read closely, you'll see what's real.  Montgomery a 4th OFer and Hernandez a future reliever.  Potentially high end if he makes it.  

Various Crap and Beatlesrule can suck it with their monday morning QB BS.  You reap the benefit of having information handed to you for your pleasure and then you bitch about it.  A lot of time and effort goes into accumulating that.  Show some appreciation.  

 

Who is bitching about it?  I'm just pointing out the fact he overvalues our system all the time and that is just a fact.  People have said this many times on this board.  He does a decent job guessing sometimes, but that's about it.  Anybody who takes his opinions as fact though are foolish.

[krAbs]

I'm gonna chime in here and say....overvaluing our farm is not an insult, IMO. I overvalue Angles players. All the time. To me, that almost comes with the territory of being a fan. Most people would see Maldenado as a second rate catcher with some good defense. I see him as a master behind the plate who is able to make every pitcher look his absolute best, bringing out the best in the whole team. Most people see Richards and see a guy who can't stay off the DL long enough to keep it together. I see a guy with more talent than any other major league pitcher, who happens to have had some bad luck. I'm aware that this is probably not 100% accurate, and I would look at these kinds of players very differently if they were on another team, but....IDK. Part of pulling for your team means seeing the best in its players. And that's okay. Even if that doesn't always make sense. I think our farm is more valuable than people give it credit for, but who knows? Maybe I'm totally off base. But like...IDK. That's what it means to be a fan.

Maybe I'm crazy though..

[VariousCrap]

6 minutes ago, krAbs said:

I'm gonna chime in here and say....overvaluing our farm is not an insult, IMO. I overvalue Angles players. All the time. 

 

And this was kinda my original point.  Scotty gets hyped on a lot of Angels prospects and sometimes overvalues them.  It's not a big deal, but that is why I take his views on the Angels farm system "with a grain of salt".  Sometimes he's right, sometimes he just isn't.  He knows more about the players than I sure do, but that isn't saying much. lol

[Docwaukee]

19 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

 

Who is bitching about it?  I'm just pointing out the fact he overvalues our system all the time and that is just a fact.  People have said this many times on this board.  He does a decent job guessing sometimes, but that's about it.  Anybody who takes his opinions as fact though are foolish.

If you don't think you're being offensive then you're an idiot.  If you don't care, then you're a douchebag.  Your opinion is not a fact.  

[VariousCrap]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

If you don't think you're being offensive then you're an idiot.  If you don't care, then you're a douchebag.  Your opinion is not a fact.  

 

And his opinion on prospects isn't fact.  And your opinions are not fact.  Big whoop.

[Warfarin]

We just got better guys!  Let's focus on that.  I'm excited that Eppler keeps making these low risk, solid moves.  There's also something to be said about acquiring players who are a year away from FA - perhaps they'll be a bit more motivated to give it their all, knowing a strong year could lead to a better payday in the offseason.

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, VariousCrap said:

 

And his opinion on prospects isn't fact.  And your opinions are not fact.  Big whoop.

he never claimed his opinions were fact.  He spent his time doing research on players so people here can learn about them.  And then people retrospectively disagree 3-4 years later without any actual perspective of their own.  that's called douche baggery.  If you were a hobbit, you'd be bilbo douchbaggery.  

[VariousCrap]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

he never claimed his opinions were fact.  He spent his time doing research on players so people here can learn about them.  And then people retrospectively disagree 3-4 years later without any actual perspective of their own.  that's called douche baggery.  If you were a hobbit, you'd be bilbo douchbaggery.  

 

Actually, the way he posts sometimes does have him coming across as he is spewing fact when he is not.  It doesn't change the fact the dude is wrong more than he is right.  Again, big whoop.

[laagamer]

Wow, great trade IMO. We gave up a pitching prospect and what amounts to maybe an okay bench player for an immediate impact starter.

Even if it's Kinsler, fuck ya! 

[Homebrewer]

I like Scotty and appreciate his insights. 

I don't like Kinsler (and nobody can make me.)

After the Ohtani signing, it's a real letdown to have to accept a jerk like Kinsler. 

[Docwaukee]

18 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

 

Actually, the way he posts sometimes does have him coming across as he is spewing fact when he is not.  It doesn't change the fact the dude is wrong more than he is right.  Again, big whoop.

point out where he's been wrong.  He offers upside and downside of every prospect.  People see his top end comps and think he's predicting everyone to be just that.   Do yourself a favor and pay attention.  

do you know how easy it would be for him to say that every prospect isn't going to amount to anything?  the odds are very good.  instead he offers a positive outlook but I have never seen him NOT offer the downside as well.  

Again.  try to have a little perspective on the big picture.  It's not about getting everything right but offering upside and downside.  Try to enjoy the information provided.  Otherwise, keep your negative BS to yourself.  Anyone can point out the truth after they already know the answer.  

Why don't you do your own prospect lists from now on.  Do hours worth of research for a bunch of unappreciative turds to pick apart.  enjoy.  

[Chuck]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

We could have gotten Hernandez for Cron. Eppler got played.

You forgot Adell, Barria and @VariousCrap's sandy vagina in the deal. 

[VariousCrap]

4 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

You forgot Adell, Barria and @VariousCrap's sandy vagina in the deal. 

 

In that sentence, sandy is not capitalized.  I don't have anyone named Sandy whose vagina can be offered in the deal.

[VariousCrap]

11 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

point out where he's been wrong.  He offers upside and downside of every prospect.  People see his top end comps and think he's predicting everyone to be just that.   Do yourself a favor and pay attention.  

do you know how easy it would be for him to say that every prospect isn't going to amount to anything?  the odds are very good.  instead he offers a positive outlook but I have never seen him NOT offer the downside as well.  

Again.  try to have a little perspective on the big picture.  It's not about getting everything right but offering upside and downside.  Try to enjoy the information provided.  Otherwise, keep your negative BS to yourself.  Anyone can point out the truth after they already know the answer.  

Why don't you do your own prospect lists from now on.  Do hours worth of research for a bunch of unappreciative turds to pick apart.  enjoy.  

I'm not being negative at all, I was just pointing out a trend with him.  Nothing more, nothing less.

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

 

In that sentence, sandy is not capitalized.  I don't have anyone named Sandy whose vagina can be offered in the deal.

I have no idea of what you're talking about.

[FabulousFabregas]

 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, TroutField said:

I don’t mind rentals if you don’t have to give up legit prospects for them. We gave up a lottery pick arm that we can replace in the draft and a fringe starter/4th outfielder we would not have any use for with all of our outfield depth in the minors. 

I mean I would have rather gone with Cozart or Kendrick at 2nd, if Kinsler bounces back to a 5 or 6 WAR player we are all stoked with this trade. 

I think that's what the FO is seeing.  They like the odds of Kinsler bouncing back a bit.  I have my doubts but I guess I'll trust it for now.  I'd have taken my chances on Kendrick but clearly Eppler value defense at a level above what available metrics denote.  I can live with that.   He's earned the right for us to trust him although his 1 yrs rentals haven't actually been worthy to this point.  

The think I have a hard time wrapping my head around is we're now in our 2nd year of a 1yr rental with no successor in sight.  Instead of spending Kyle McGowin, Austin Adams, Wikel Hernandez and Troy Montgomery on two 1yr rentals, why not turn that currency or equivalent into a long term or even mid term solution.  Last year Espinosa cost 5.425m.  This year Kinsler will cost 11m.  In 2016 we spent league min and got what we paid for (or less).

Don't know what the availability of certain players were to the halos but Daniel Murphy, Jean Segura, Ben Zobrist, Logan Forsythe, Starlin Castro, Scooter Gennett, Jed Lowrie, Asdrubal Cabrera , Neil Walker and Dee Gordon have all been available in some way shape or form.  

[Tank]

we get our second baseman and new leadoff hitter in one fell swoop for our #20 and #24 prospects. What's not to like? 

sure, he's been a doosh in the past, but he's a good player and has some pop.

this is a good move for us.