We Don't Have A Clubhouse Leader

[MJ from La Verne]

In years past, there has always been that one guy who leads this team, who calls guys out, who calls the team out, who holds team-only meetings, etc... This years' team doesn't have any leadership in the clubhouse. It appears, IMO, that each player is an individual working on their own stats. Do they all run from the dugout when they win? Sure, why not? It looks good. But in years past, someone was the "leader" when we were in a slump. Is it the Tori Hunter effect? Heck, even Tori called out MS last year. I don't know, just one man's opinion. But it seems like we have a bunch of prima donnas who worry about the paycheck rather than being a "leader".

[HaloCory22]

Derek Jeter! Get it done, JeDi!

[Blarg]

How much inside information do you guys really think you have on what goes on in the clubhouse?

[Bruce Nye]

If they're just working on their stats, they aren't doing that job either.

[Blarg]

I am so sick and tired of hearing about what great leadership Torii provided last year. Torii was gone for two weeks to fix his most important leadership problem in his life, his son. The Angels had three years of Torii leading them where after Vlad left? He made a lot of noise in the press but that doesn't mean he was leading anyone to better themselves.

[MJ from La Verne]

I am so sick and tired of hearing about what great leadership Torii provided last year. Torii was gone for two weeks to fix his most important leadership problem in his life, his son. The Angels had three years of Torii leading them where after Vlad left? He made a lot of noise in the press but that doesn't mean he was leading anyone to better themselves.

Point taken (re: Tori). But at some point, someone has to get mad about the product on the field. Arte doesn't talk, none of the players get mad, hell, at least MS showed some grit tonight involving the protest. I'm just saying, as a long time Angels fan, and by looking at the posts on this forum, the fans are pissed. Who takes charge in the Clubhouse and turns this Titanic ship? "Someone" needs to take charge (player) and call these guys out.

[nando714]

Must be a Torii Honk

[SoWhat]

Clubhouse leadership isn't gonna stop Hamilton from swinging at every pitch out of the zone, Hitting better with RISP or our bullpen being complete shit.

[MJ from La Verne]

Clubhouse leadership isn't gonna stop Hamilton from swinging at every pitch out of the zone, Hitting better with RISP or our bullpen being complete shit.

No, it's not. But damn, someone has to step up and call these guys out.

[Blarg]

Which player has the brilliant season to stand in front his teammates and list their faults?

[austin724]

I would rather have had Vlad than Torii. 

[EDinTUSTIN]

In years past, there has always been that one guy who leads this team, who calls guys out, who calls the team out, who holds team-only meetings, etc... This years' team doesn't have any leadership in the clubhouse. It appears, IMO, that each player is an individual working on their own stats. Do they all run from the dugout when they win? Sure, why not? It looks good. But in years past, someone was the "leader" when we were in a slump. Is it the Tori Hunter effect? Heck, even Tori called out MS last year. I don't know, just one man's opinion. But it seems like we have a bunch of prima donnas who worry about the paycheck rather than being a "leader".

LOL @ working on their own stats. That sure is paying off when one looks at what those individual stats are. As far as Torii's leadership? How many postseasons had they gone to in the past 3 years while he was clubhouse leader? How many WS appearances? Look, I like Torii alot, but I think we overrate this aspect.

[FabulousFabregas]

Solution: Make Brendan Harris team captain. You're welcome.

[Brandon]

Romine needs to start digging into the team to get them going.

[tomsred]

I don't think some of you understand effective leadership.  Leadership is not constantly "calling guys out."  Leadership is encouragement, setting a positive example, helping others with their problems, emphasizing teamwork, and helping them stay within their capabilities to perform effectively.  It's not yelling and screaming, embarrassing, and booting people in the a** all the time.  Yeah, there are some few moments when that  is necessary, but that's usually done in private, one-on-one, and usually ends with something encouraging said.

[acro2008]

Sometimes leadership is simply set by example.  Manifesting a collective winning mindset should start with discipline, something this team lacks, IMO.  The veterans can't continue the irresponsible base running and expanding the K zone with RISP and expect the team to wiin consistently.  Oh yeah, and what Tomsred just said.

[tomsred]

All that said, we might not have one of those either.  Effective leaders most of the time have to be trained to fill that role.  Many study it in college, or do extensive reading on the subject, or learn it directly from others.  Baseball players don't generally work on that skill, they want to play and work on their physical skills.  Once secure in that role then maybe they have the interest, ability or inclination to work on being an effective leader.  I'm not sure we have a lot of mental giants on this team, or players who want to accept that role.

 

Could that lead to this team's performance problems, definitely yes.  Wrong mix of players, or missing maybe one key player who is good at leadership, and who is the go to guy for encouragement, example and knows what to properly discuss with his co-players.  That's DiPoto's job to make sure we have someone like that, not just a mis-matched bunch of players who have good past stats.  Scioscia also needs to keep an eye on what's happening between the players, and step in when when necessary, but he can't do it by himself.

[Lifetime]

Some people require leadership training to become effective leaders. Others on the other hand come by effective leadership naturally. You don't have to be a mental giant or a college graduate to be a good leader. I don't think it's fair to say baseball players or any other group of athletes don't care about or work on being a leader. 

[tomsred]

This year's edition is an interesting problem.  Hamilton and Pujols are far different to me than Hunter and even Wells in personality.  They seem more introverted, and explain things through God in an abstract way.  Hunter and Wells were openly encouraging and enthusiastic toward other players.  I think it is almost impossible for Scioscia alone to fill a leadership void.  He has to be the bad guy at times as well.  Picciolo, Eppard, and Butcher don't seem to effectively connect to the players like a Maddon, Roenicke, or Black.  A more effective coaching staff might fill some of the breach between veteran leadership and developing players.  Or they could shake things up by replacing some of the older players with much different personality types.  The timing stinks rights now.  We are virtually stuck with what we have until around mid-season.  Any replacements for player, or coaching staff, would be choosing from a very limited available base right now as opposed to later in the year, or at the end of the season.

[stormngt]

In years past, there has always been that one guy who leads this team, who calls guys out, who calls the team out, who holds team-only meetings, etc... This years' team doesn't have any leadership in the clubhouse. It appears, IMO, that each player is an individual working on their own stats. Do they all run from the dugout when they win? Sure, why not? It looks good. But in years past, someone was the "leader" when we were in a slump. Is it the Tori Hunter effect? Heck, even Tori called out MS last year. I don't know, just one man's opinion. But it seems like we have a bunch of prima donnas who worry about the paycheck rather than being a "leader".

I am just curious, for all those who say we "don't have a club house leader", How do you know this?  Are you part of the club house?

[robblin17]

I am just curious, for all those who say we "don't have a club house leader", How do you know this?  Are you part of the club house?

 

It's a message board. 99% of the crap we talk about is speculation anyways. 

[Angel Oracle]

Good points were raised by Tomsred.

Can an owner be so blinded by needing the big stars, that they ignore the total picture?

 

The best franchises had that balance of mixed personalities (leaders, Kevin Millar types, grinders, etc.), talent, good farm system to help deal with injuries and defections, and good scouting.

The 1970s Reds and the mid 1990s-early 2000s Skanks are two examples of this. 

 

Right now, the Halos franchise has significant questions in most of the above, and the talent portion is a question mark too thanks to Pujols and Hamilton hitting poorly.

 

Did Arte fail to see the bigger picture, just because he's seemingly more concerned with headlines for the team? 

He's got the money, now he needs to be smarter with spending it and spreading it through every aspect of the org.  

[HaloFan85]

I don't know how much to read into this, but Beto Duran just commented on 710 radio that he's been in the Angels clubhouse 3 different times this year, and each time there was absolutely no life. He basically said the team comes in, does there work, and leaves.

[Spencer]

I don't know how much to read into this, but Beto Duran just commented on 710 radio that he's been in the Angels clubhouse 3 different times this year, and each time there was absolutely no life. He basically said the team comes in, does there work, and leaves.

 

I heard that too, and it was depressing.

Not to mention that afterwards, Mason and Ireland started ripping the team and listing its faults.  More depressing.

 

We suck

[Lifetime]

why would a clubhouse for a team that is struggling in nearly every aspect of the game have a lively clubhouse? Seriously. I'd be pissed if they were lively and whoopin it up. These guys are coming off of loss after loss and you think their clubhouse is going to be full of life. It's depressing for them too.