Teams want Shoemaker/Skaggs, Brian Dozier a real possibility? (Ken Rosenthal)

[Angel Oracle]

Hasn't Mauer evolved into being at just the next level above Doug Mientkewicz?    $46 million is waaay too much for that.

[ettin]

So I talk about this in the Primer but you should all realize that the market for left-handed starters in free agency and in particular trade this offseason is pretty robust overall. Although I really like Skaggs there are also possible issues with innings limits for him in 2017 and by moving him in trade you could sign or trade for another left-handed starter on the market to replace some of his production while also increasing the length of the staff  in terms of innings pitched in 2017.

The same is true of trading Shoemaker insofar as you will not find as good a starter in free agency as he is but if you upgrade in other areas and then sign Ivan Nova for instance to a longer contract you potentially get an overall bump in total team production possibly.

I like Dozier and as others have said we match up with the Twins needs which includes catcher (Perez), possibly 1B if we take on Mauer's contract, and they even have some LF possibilities for us beyond Maybin in 2018.

[totdprods]

21 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Hasn't Mauer evolved into being at just the next level above Doug Mientkewicz?    $46 million is waaay too much for that.

And Brian Dozier is worth tremendously more than what he's getting paid.

[AngelsLakersFan]

What is important to consider is that IF the Angels were to go through with a trade like this one, and give up Tyler Skaggs it will be specifically because they have soured on his ability to stay healthy.

I was really high on Skaggs coming into last season but I don't think he could've been that much more disappointing than he was. He went from throwing 97 in spring, to 92-93 in September with a hurt arm, all of 50 innings later. 

Phill Hughes and his contract seems like a real deal starter for Eppler. The Twins want to get out from under that $36 million or so, whereas Eppler might see another Minnesota pitcher worth buying low on. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Well, my reply was lost in the deletion of the other threads....

 

I see more DAN UGGLA than King Kong in Brian Dozier! same stats and his defense is good not great averaging 8-15 Errors per season! When Howie was here he was averaging 10-15 and people were losing their $h*+.....

Brian Dozier avg #'s  .250/.319/.746   23 HR's 70RBI   2/1 K's vs BB's.....

Dan Uggla got ran out of Baseball for not making enough consistent contact! And being the exact same fielder at 2B.. just sayin!~

1. I don't break the bank for him! IF he continues positive! He will be a FA in 2 years....

2. If he slips and slides like Dan Uggla....Then we aren't stuck!

3. I would rather keep the arms and deal for a more consistent bat or younger model.

4. Or roll for a Lotto Ticket and go after a Panek/Cain/Kontos deal and use Escobar and some bully arms that the Giants need....A Street at 10M might also be a decent get for them...?

[Troll Daddy]

Kinsler won't waive his no-trade clause  without a extension .,, Dick

[Oz27]

2 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

What is important to consider is that IF the Angels were to go through with a trade like this one, and give up Tyler Skaggs it will be specifically because they have soured on his ability to stay healthy.

I was really high on Skaggs coming into last season but I don't think he could've been that much more disappointing than he was. He went from throwing 97 in spring, to 92-93 in September with a hurt arm, all of 50 innings later. 

Phill Hughes and his contract seems like a real deal starter for Eppler. The Twins want to get out from under that $36 million or so, whereas Eppler might see another Minnesota pitcher worth buying low on. 

Really agree on Skaggs. I don't see him as any more than an average starter anymore and that's if he stays healthy, which there are obviously substantial doubts over. I think other teams would be extremely reluctant to place much value on someone who seems to be having constant arm problems and is probably a higher than average risk of needing TJ surgery again.

[Hubs]

Brian Dozier will cost Skaggs. We wouldn't get much else back. Even though he is worth it, I don't see it happening. Not unless we can have Santana Back.

Dozier and Santana for Skaggs or Santiago is ok by me. 

 

 

[Oz27]

23 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Brian Dozier will cost Skaggs. We wouldn't get much else back. Even though he is worth it, I don't see it happening. Not unless we can have Santana Back.

Dozier and Santana for Skaggs or Santiago is ok by me. 

 

 

Brian Dozier is coming off a 6.5 win season. He would cost a lot more than Tyler Skaggs.

Also we traded Santiago awhile ago.

[California Cajun]

Kinsler will be 35 in June.

Dozier will be 30 in May.

[Homebrewer]

Shoe coming off a serious head injury (with serious implications for someone going back to a pitching mound) and Skaggs coming back from TJ...Man, I know starting pitching is at a premium this off season but both these guys have real question marks over their heads.

I'd bide my time if this kind of rumor and interest is coming in this early... who knows what they might be able to get for these guys.  And yes, I trade either or both of them...this org has precious few trade pieces and many holes to fill. 

[Second Base]

Shoe is seriously coming off a serious head injury which has serious implications and could seriously put his future into serious doubt if we aren't seriously proactive about serious prevention. Seriously. 

 I'm just messing' HB. 

[TroutField]

2 hours ago, Homebrewer said:

Shoe coming off a serious head injury (with serious implications for someone going back to a pitching mound) and Skaggs coming back from TJ...Man, I know starting pitching is at a premium this off season but both these guys have real question marks over their heads.

I'd bide my time if this kind of rumor and interest is coming in this early... who knows what they might be able to get for these guys.  And yes, I trade either or both of them...this org has precious few trade pieces and many holes to fill. 

So let's tear open new holes in order to patch the holes we currently have. No logic involved...

[Homebrewer]

There is no guarantee that either of them will not become a hole themselves..especially considering the pitching luck this team has had recently. They are both question marks at best.

[TroutField]

53 minutes ago, Homebrewer said:

There is no guarantee that either of them will not become a hole themselves..especially considering the pitching luck this team has had recently. They are both question marks at best.

So trade two cost controlled starters based on hypotheticals? 

[Docwaukee]

Dozier is going to cost a boatload.  Considerably more than just Skaggs and he's cheaply controlled for 2 more seasons through age 31.  we can't be exchanging longer term talent for two years worth of a player.  Frankly, Eppler isn't going to do that unless its for less talented players on 1yr deals who are somewhat overpaid and it's for talent on our side that he doesn't see as much value in.  

Skaggs could be one of those guys, but a Skaggs for Hernandez deal makes more sense.  

Teams are also going to wonder why the hell we are trading someone like skaggs when it's clear we need pitching.  So leverage could be an issue.  

 

[ettin]

So well before the trade deadline last year I was looking at the Twins and they clearly needed help at C and RP. With Bedrosian progressing so well it seemed to me that a Twins trade that moved Street and Perez for one of their LF options plus ???? was a possibility. Then Street collapsed down the stretch and both teams were out of it heading into the break.

Fast forward now and there is a remote scenario here where the Twins trade both Mauer and Dozier for Street, Cron, and Perez. The latter two have four and five years of control respectively and shouldn't see their salaries escalate so high that they are not kept for their full years of control. Assuming 1.5 and 1 WAR per year out of C.J. and Carlos the basis of that trade would be giving more value to the Twins when you consider how much money they would instantly save in 2017 and 2018. They could use that money to sign Ian Desmond or make a trade for another 2B.

Basically in 2017 the Twins would free up approximately $20M in cash. The Angels would take on a lot but they would significantly upgrade at 2B, and maintain overall production at 1B. They should have enough cash left over to buy a veteran catcher to replace Perez. The Twins would probably have to either a) eat some 2017 salary for Mauer or b ) provide one or more prospects to help cover the large negative surplus value that Mauer has (about $25M negative value over the life of his contract).

The Twins are ready to compete. If a larger market team offered to take salary off of their hands I could easily see them taking the extra cash and trading for a top flight starter like Chris Archer for instance. I don't think anyone here should underestimate how small market teams are eager for free cash flow. I could see them actually trade for Archer, slide Polanco over to 2B and then trade for a slick SS like Jose Iglesias from the Tigers.

[Tank]

10 hours ago, bloodbrother said:

Don't like buying a player after a career year. Dozier's been a good player for a a few years now but the Twins are definitely looking to capitalize on this massive year he just had.

kent bottenfield says hello.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

10 hours ago, ettin said:

So well before the trade deadline last year I was looking at the Twins and they clearly needed help at C and RP. With Bedrosian progressing so well it seemed to me that a Twins trade that moved Street and Perez for one of their LF options plus ???? was a possibility. Then Street collapsed down the stretch and both teams were out of it heading into the break.

Fast forward now and there is a remote scenario here where the Twins trade both Mauer and Dozier for Street, Cron, and Perez. The latter two have four and five years of control respectively and shouldn't see their salaries escalate so high that they are not kept for their full years of control. Assuming 1.5 and 1 WAR per year out of C.J. and Carlos the basis of that trade would be giving more value to the Twins when you consider how much money they would instantly save in 2017 and 2018. They could use that money to sign Ian Desmond or make a trade for another 2B.

Basically in 2017 the Twins would free up approximately $20M in cash. The Angels would take on a lot but they would significantly upgrade at 2B, and maintain overall production at 1B. They should have enough cash left over to buy a veteran catcher to replace Perez. The Twins would probably have to either a) eat some 2017 salary for Mauer or b ) provide one or more prospects to help cover the large negative surplus value that Mauer has (about $25M negative value over the life of his contract).

The Twins are ready to compete. If a larger market team offered to take salary off of their hands I could easily see them taking the extra cash and trading for a top flight starter like Chris Archer for instance. I don't think anyone here should underestimate how small market teams are eager for free cash flow. I could see them actually trade for Archer, slide Polanco over to 2B and then trade for a slick SS like Jose Iglesias from the Tigers.

Twins pitching and minor league system is in trouble..... Trust me! Don't believe the hype there is a ton of stuff going on in the back office there. From the GM office all the way down to the Minor League development guys. Spoke with a few players and they have said that most hope when the phone rings that they have been traded or even released these are the kids... It was mentioned as too many chiefs not enough Indians each coach and everyone involved has a different idea and thought process from coaches, scouts, everyone also pops off on each other and there is zero continuity or communication other than being hacked by 5-10 different people in the back on a weekly basis. The org has changed since Gardenhire and Terry Ryan left and most players even the long term guys quit talking and are biding their time.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

14 hours ago, totdprods said:

Not for one year? He was solid last season and pulled off a decent 180 innings. With his age, weight, and alcoholism issues there's definitely a risk of breakdown...

Let's see...a 36-year-old pitcher with all of these issues who is owed $25M for next season. What could possibly go wrong?

I wouldn't take Sabathia if we gave up nothing to get him, much less dealing prospects or a player already on the major league roster.

[Mark68]

14 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

.

I agree.

[tdawg87]

Dozier would cost something like Skaggs, Jones, Thaiss, and Middleton. That is the exact type of trade this org needs to avoid. 

[totdprods]

6 hours ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Let's see...a 36-year-old pitcher with all of these issues who is owed $25M for next season. What could possibly go wrong?

I wouldn't take Sabathia if we gave up nothing to get him, much less dealing prospects or a player already on the major league roster.

Not even if we got Castro or McCann back as well? None of those three are super intriguing to me so I wouldn't give up much for that package, but it would relieve the Yankees of a lot of salary for their Chapman pursuit. 

[zenmaster]

I agree with those saying Dozier's price is way too high for a team in our position. He is coming off a career year. We have a horrible farm and need to do everything possible to make it better or not make it worse. Dozier would take some of our Major League and Minor League talent. This does not seem like a move Eppler would pull off, and for that I'm grateful. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Dozier would cost something like Skaggs, Jones, Thaiss, and Middleton. That is the exact type of trade this org needs to avoid. 

I'd project Dozier for about 8 war at around $10 mil over the contract, which is around ~$50m excess value. Phill Hughes is owed nearly $40m over the next three years. He's coming off surgery and has put up all of 1.2fWar over the last two seasons. It all depends on what Minnesota thinks of Skaggs and where their priorities are as an organization. I think Shoemaker alone, in this market, with his extra year (or years?) of control might carry the same or potentially more value than Dozier. 

Of course the Twins may be looking at 42 homeruns and thinking there is a lot more value to it than there actually is.